Re: VVS operations 6-8 may & 8-10 june 1943, claims and losses.
 

Normandie used Yak-1B

Re: VVS operations 6-8 may & 8-10 june 1943, claims and losses.
 

Yes, right :) Typo.

10 june 1943, claims and losses.
 

Final list for 10 june operations.

Re: VVS operations 6-8 may & 8-10 june 1943, claims and losses.
 

Raid on Orel 08Jun43
Claims:
Fw Bernhard Vechtel 10/JG51
Il-2 64843 19:16
Il-2 64853 19:19
Uffz Wilhelm Weber 10/JG51
Il-2 64881 19:20
Lt Heinz Venth 9/JG51
Il-2 64851 19:25
Lt Karl-Heinz Weber 7/JG51
Il-2 64844 19:18
Some additional information from the book on that raid. The 12 Il-2's of the 614 ShAP were all on there 1st combat mission that day. On leaving Orel 4 Il-2's were escorted by Ml. Lt. Dimitruk of the 50 IAP (no wingman or other fighter's). He was flying top cover above the 4 Il-2's below. He saw that one was damaged but thought it was from AAA at Orel. He later saw it suddenly go down. He then saw the last 3 over a forest area and lost sight of them. It was in the area of the above claims. He never saw them again after that time. All the other 8 Il-2's seem to have went down to the west and south of this location. With no VVS witnesses to their fate.

Re: VVS operations 6-8 may & 8-10 june 1943, claims and losses.
 

Here is a "POSSIBLE" answer to two of the claims made on 08Jun43 on the raid of the Orel-GVF airfield. Capt. Karashtin and Ml. Lt. Kuliev in Yak-1's (65 GIAP) flew to "block" Orel-GVF but scattered from the formation under AAA going to the west of Orel. Capt Karashtin stated he was involved in a futile dogfight with a Fw190. Both managed to cross the the front line and land at another airfield before later returning to their airfield. Fw Alfons Mittermaier 9/JG51 made a claim for a LaGG-5 at 19:21 (53261 at 300m) and Maj. Erich Leie Stab I/JG51 for a Yak-7 at 19:35 (53423 tiefflug). Both loactions are west of Orel and the only known in that area at this time.

JG 51 Losses
 

Hi guys

Here is a list of several losses that JG 51 suffered during the days mentioned in this thread. Doubtless it is not complete and I have no idea if all of these were specifically suffered during the raids covered on this thread. Nevertheless, I hope that this adds a little more to our knowledge of these events.

6 May 1943:

12.JG 51: Fw 190 A-4 "Brown 7" (W.Nr. 0147 161) flown by Oberfeldwebel Kurt Tanzer, wounded in aerial combat at Orel, 40%
12./JG 51: Feldwebel Wilhelm Mildner wounded by enemy fire southeast of Orel
IV./JG 51: Fw 190 A-4 (W.Nr. 0145 743) flown by Feldwebel Hubert Hompel, killed in aerial combat at Sybino, 100%

III./JG 51 damaged by bombing at Schatalowka-West

Fw 190 A-5 (W.Nr. 0152 658) 20%
Fw 190 A-5 (W.Nr. 0157 357) 10%

11./JG 51 damaged by bombing at Orel-West

Fw 190 A-4 (W.Nr. 0142 495) 15%
Fw 190 A-4 (W.Nr. 0145 711) 10%
Fw 190 A-4 (W.Nr. 0145 810) 10%

12./JG 51 damaged by bombing at Orel-West

Fw 190 A-4 (W.Nr. 0142 510) 30%
Fw 190 A-4 (W.Nr. 0142 500) 30%
Fw 190 A-4 (W.Nr. 0147 258) 35%

7 May 1943

1./JG 51: Fw 190 A-4 (W.Nr. 0142 508) damaged in aerial combat at Orel-Nord, 30%
2./JG 51: Fw 190 A-5 (W.Nr. 0157 227) damaged in aerial combat at Orel, 10%
3./JG 51: Fw 190 A-4 (W.Nr. 0142 494) belly-landing following aerial combat, 20%

8 May 1943

3./JG 51: Unteroffizier Fritz Häse wounded by ground fire at Orel
9./JG 51: Fw 190 A-5 "Yellow 3" (W.Nr. 0152 440) flown by Oberleutnant Maximilian Mayerl, wounded by ground fire at Spass-Demensk
12.JG 51: Fw 190 A-4 (W.Nr. 0142 524) damaged by Flak hit, 30%

8 June 1943

3./JG 51: Fw 190 A-4 (W.Nr. 0142 489) crashed on take-off at Orel-Sloboda, 25%
15./JG 51: Fw 190 A-3 (W.Nr. 0135 327) flown by Oberleutnant Alejandro Pérez González, killed, crashed due to enemy fire, 100%

Horrido!

Leo

Re: VVS operations 6-8 may & 8-10 june 1943, claims and losses.
 

What a fantastic thread.

I'd like to thank Evengy Velichko, Nokose, Leo Etgen and everyone to help fill in some of the details in the more poorly covered Ostfront operations.

I'm sure many would appreciate future additions.

Thank you all.

Re: VVS operations 6-8 may & 8-10 june 1943, claims and losses.
 

Greetings, Gents!

I am in direct contact with an author of this book, Oleg Rastrenin.

He is very interested in "german sight" of those raids.

Does anybody working on this subject? Claims/losses clarifications, "who shot who down"?

If You are interested, please let me know.

Re: VVS operations 6-8 may & 8-10 june 1943, claims and losses.
 

On this link : You may find a list of German losses on the ground linked to these raids, the quality of this website's articles depends from time to time, but this one seems OK (the reference of German documents is indicated), and is interesting in that it gives humans losses figures for flak units :

http://www.airwar.ru/history/av2ww/s...hturm1943.html

I hope you may find it useful.