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-   -   Friendly fire WWII (http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=2670)

Brian 1st October 2005 17:29

Friendly fire WWII
 
Hi guys

I have just joined your honourable guild of aviation experts. I am conducting research into friendly fire incidents for my new book. I am interested in all such incidents concerning misidentification in the air during WWII, and seek your help. My two-volume study covers all air forces, in all theatres of the war. Quite an undertaking, no doubt you will agree. My draft already contains hundreds of recorded incidents but I am sure there are more to be uncovered. Please help!

vingtor 5th October 2005 14:27

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 
Well, as one airman once said "there's nothing friendly with friendly fire".

Nils

en830 5th October 2005 22:05

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 
A recent issiue of After the Battle gives a classic example of Friendly fire concerning the loss of Douglas Bader in 1941.

Paul 6th October 2005 16:48

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 
Brian,

George Preddy is one of those sad examples....

http://www.preddy-foundation.org/


Paul

John Beaman 6th October 2005 18:53

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 
Brian, if you wish to do George Preddy, contact me OB. There is a lot more to the story we have discovered over the years (I was involved in much of the original research for the Preddy book), including two accidental shoot downs the first of which took us 20 years to discover WAS NOT Preddy, but the second one was, but both were 8th AAF aces!

John

Laurent Rizzotti 6th October 2005 21:13

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 
Brian, are you researching only air-to-air friendly fire, or also interested in air-to-ground, ground-to-air, air-to-sea and sea-to-air mishaps ? Only to speak of cases where aircraft were involved.

As for A2A friendly fire, the French book about the Armée de l'Air claims in 1940 ("LES VICTOIRES DE L’AVIATION DE CHASSE FRANÇAISE LES VICTOIRES DE L’AVIATION DE CHASSE FRANÇAISE", two book by Arnaud Gillet) is showing some cases of British-French friendly fire I have never seen elsewhere (but I should admit the 1940 campain is not my study subject).


Paul 6th October 2005 21:21

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 
Hi John,

We're still trying to find any remains of George Preddy's a/c.....I'm in contact with both Joe N. and Joe H. for that.

Take care,

Paul

noahbjr 7th October 2005 00:38

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 
I, too, have just joined the group thanks to Paul Patist. And I would encourage you, Brian, to get in touch with John Beaman and Sam Sox re the friendly fire incident that killed my cousin, George Preddy. They have done a tremendous amount of research on this one!

Best regards,

Joe Noah, PMF

Paul 7th October 2005 21:49

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 
Joe,

Welcome here !


Paul

Brian 8th October 2005 13:31

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 
Hi guys

Thanks for the various comments re my quest for friendly fire (blue-on-blue)incidents. I do intend to include air-to-air, air-to-ground and ground-to-air, plus other related incidents such 'white-on-blue' (attacks on Allied/Axis aircraft by neutral aircraft), 'blue-on-white' (attacks on neutral aircraft by Allied/Axis aircraft), aircraft collisions with (own) barrage balloons, etc.

Please understand that I am not sensationalising such incidents but consider they are an important part of aviation history which tends to be overlooked by historians.

Nils - of course you are correct - no such animal as 'friendly' fire! And yes, Ian, I have picked up on the Bader incident. Its is apparent that I do not have full details of the George Preddy incident and will follow up on your suggestions Paul, John and Joe.

Laurent - among my many failings is an inability to read French very well - are you able to translate for me the incidents mentioned in Arnaud Gillet's book? If this is too great a task, may I ask you to provide further details of the book to enable me to purchase a copy? Many thanks.

Have a nice one and keep smiling

Brian

Juha 8th October 2005 16:23

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 
Hello Brian
during the couple last years there have been discussions on German attacks against Finnish a/c and Finnish attacks on German aircraft during 1941-44 period in http://www.network54.com/Forum/46825. Discussions are in English.

HTH
Juha

Franek Grabowski 8th October 2005 19:01

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 
Brian
I am still experiencing some problems with my e-mail account.
Anyway, I estimate friendly fire took about 20% of combat losses, so quite a substantial problem, never properly analysed to my knowledge. Those incidents involved many famous pilots - s**t happens.
PS I see we have another subject to discuss as well!

Brian 8th October 2005 20:47

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 
Thanks Juha - I have just spent the last couple of hours perusing the net54 forum - fascinating and I have picked up some new info, Many thanks.

Franek - I too am having trouble with my e-mails - I can send but not receive! Hope to sort this out soon, so if you have e-mailed me I trust you'll understand the delay in responding. Look forward to hearing from you.

Brian

Andy Mac 8th October 2005 21:39

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 
Hi Brian - an exciting prospect! I can think of a number of incidents well documented :

1. Dizzy Allen 66 sqn who vociforously describes being shot at by Britisk ack ack over Dover ( and later discovered he had been claimed as a kill by Werner Molders ! )

2. Brian Kingcome 92 sqn being bounced by a Spitfire which cruised past as he prepared to bail out.

3. A deliberate friendly fire incident described by Mr Kingcome in his book ' A Willingness To Die '.

4. Chuck Yeager in his P51 returning over Dover from a sweep and being shot at by British ack ack and saying to his wingman ' Goddamn it let's go down there and shoot back at those sons of b****es '. I think he did as well.

Tally Ho!

atckyrre 8th October 2005 22:19

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 
Brian

I trust you have Bomann's book about air warfare over Sweden during the war. Incredibly detailed covering also the "incidents" where german and allied aircraft were shot down by Swedes.
If you don't have it please let me know.

Kyrre
Harstad, Norway.

jhor99 9th October 2005 18:15

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian
Hi guys

I have just joined your honourable guild of aviation experts. I am conducting research into friendly fire incidents for my new book. I am interested in all such incidents concerning misidentification in the air during WWII, and seek your help. My two-volume study covers all air forces, in all theatres of the war. Quite an undertaking, no doubt you will agree. My draft already contains hundreds of recorded incidents but I am sure there are more to be uncovered. Please help!

I notice that all previous comments have to do with ground fire downing friendly aircraft.
There were incidents where aircraft bombers shot diwn friendly planes. We knew that if a plane pointed his nose at you to open fire immediately,There were times when P-38s had an engine shot out, in order to join a formation of bombers the plane had to slide in and not try to go nose in.

Brian 9th October 2005 22:16

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 
Hi Kyrre

Do you mean Bo Widfeldt's books? If so, I have and am in touch with Bo. Thanks anyway.

Hi Jules - yes, sadly bombers did account for many friendly fire incidents - quite understandable in the circumstances. Do you have any personal recollections?

Cheers,
Brian

atckyrre 10th October 2005 00:55

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian
Hi Kyrre

Do you mean Bo Widfeldt's books? If so, I have and am in touch with Bo. Thanks anyway.

Doh. Minor brainfart. Yes I meant Widfeldt. :)

One slightly odd situ that might not be for your book but interresting nevertheless is the incident with the 11 Ju-52s that landed on Hartvikvann in Northern Norway during the invasion in 1940. Off the top of my head one got airborne while the rest remained on the ice in various states, though some quite flyable. At one point the Norwegians chased the Germans away and the planes were all of a sudden Norwegian. Apparently they started to prepare the planes for a move to Bardufoss further north.
Alas the FAA was not informed about this and the planes were strafed by Skuas. It could be that they were also attacked by Norwegian Heinkel 115's but right now I can't remember all the details.

I'm sure others has got the proper account should you be interested

Kyrre

atckyrre 10th October 2005 05:50

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 
I was reading the story about the Norwegian Airforce during the war (Luftforsvarets historie - 5 år i utlegd, by Vera Henriksen) and chanced upon a friendly fire incident.
One of the previously Norwegian Heinkel He115's (Ex. "F.56" of the Royal Norwegian Navy Air Force") ,flying with the socalled Helensburgh Group with the Marine Aircraft Experimental Establishment, was shot at by two Polish Spitfires near Isle of Wight some time in the spring of '42. Starboard propeller was shot to pieces and the wing started burning. But the aircraft was saved only to be destroyed later in a fueling accident.

One curiousity was the incident where previous F.64, which was a He115 captured from the Germans in 1940, was shot up by two Bf109's at its Malta mooring early 1942... (Lamb, War in a Stringbag, p213).

Kyrre

atckyrre 10th October 2005 06:03

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 
Since I'm on a roll and I'm on a nightshift here are two Norwegian pilots listed as fallen from friendly fire in the same book:
- Lt. Per Adolph Thorén, 85 Sqn, 08.10.42, Presumed shot down by British ackack at Dover
- Maj. Leif Lundsten, 331(N) Sqn, 09.06.44, Shot down by allied ack ack

Brian 10th October 2005 10:26

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 
Hi Kyrre

Thanks for the stream of incidents. However, I do have note of all mentioned, but please keep me advised of any others you may come across. Don't work too hard - it makes me feel guilty!!

Have a nice one

Brian

Laurent Rizzotti 10th October 2005 13:22

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian
Hi guys

Laurent - among my many failings is an inability to read French very well - are you able to translate for me the incidents mentioned in Arnaud Gillet's book? If this is too great a task, may I ask you to provide further details of the book to enable me to purchase a copy? Many thanks.

Brian

Hi Brian, I have currently connexion problems at home but as soon as possible I will post here a list of the friendly fire occurences listed in the book. Then I will translate details of any case you may be interested in. I will have to translate them in English one day or another anyway.

Here is a case of air-to-sea friendly fire I would like to know more about:

On the night of 1 October 1944 destroyer USS DD-492 Bailey was on picket duty under a full moon off the Palaus, 06°59'N, 134°13'E, when one or more torpedo planes made two severe strafing attacks on her, killing three officers and 6 enlisted men (two of them were BM1C Charles P Mason and Cox William A. Knauss) and wounding 16 other enlisted men. Later reports were that it was Allied pilots who mistook her for an enemy craft (according to a member of the crew). Damage was extensive and she limped back as far as Manus of the Admiralty group where a tender repaired her sufficiently to return to the states, arriving 28 October at to Mare Island for permanent repairs.
http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USN/USN-Chron/USN-Chron-1944.html
http://www.hazegray.org/danfs/destroy/dd492txt.htm
http://htmlgear.tripod.com/guest/control.guest?u=dd492
http://htmlgear.tripod.com/guest/control.guest?u=dd492&i=1&a=view
http://www.abmc.gov/searchww.htm
http://htmlgear.tripod.com/guest/control.guest?u=dd492
http://www.abmc.gov/searchww.htm
Veteran registry: http://www.destroyers.org/smrdd/USS_Bailey.html

Brian 10th October 2005 15:22

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 
Thanks Laurent, I look forward to your generous offer.

I regret that I am unable to provide you with the informaion you seek re USS Bailey. Since my study will be in two volumes, I have concentrated most of my efforts to Volume I, which covers the ETO. If and when I find anything useful re your request I will contact you. Apologies for the time being.

Cheers
Brian

Brian

Juha 12th October 2005 09:01

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 
Brian
if You got 3 incidents (LW's Schumacher vs DH 89, Karu vs. He 111 and Nissinen vs. Ju 188) those were all I can remember from recent years that were discussed on that board. If You want more info on the Nissinen vs. Ju 188, please send a PM.

Juha

Laurent Rizzotti 12th October 2005 12:31

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 
The list below, listing cases of friendly fire where French aircraft were involved from September 1939 to June 1940 (known to me) is drawn from the following sources:
Martin's book about Armée de l'Air losses ("Ils étaient là")
Gillet's books on French victoires (tome 1, 10-15 May, tome 2, 16 May-4 June)
AéroJournal n° 3 (about night fighters Potez 631, often identified as Bf110) and n° 18 (about Aéronavale)

16 Oct 1939: Mureaux 115 GAO 1/520 damaged by 1 Morane 406 over Saar Valley. Pilot wounded

22 Nov 1939: Bloch 131 GR I/36 shot down by Morane 406 GC II/2 over Aisne. 2 KIA, 2 WIA

21 Dec 1939: Potez 637 GR II/33 shot down by 2 Hurricanes over Meuse. 2 KIA, 1 WIA

14 Apr 1940: Dutch submarine O10 bombed in error off Dutch coast by two V.156F of AB3. No damage

10 May 1940: bomber claimed shot down by 3 pilots GC III/1 over Termonde was probably Blenheim L9246 57 Sqn RAF.

12 May 1940: Fairey Fox 7/III/3 (Belgium) shot down by GC III/2 & GC III/7 near Huy. Crew unhurt.

13 May 1940: two Potez 631 ECMJ 1/16 damaged by Hurricanes near Betheniville. No loss.

14 May 1940: four Battles 142 Sqn RAF shot down by GC III/7 in Sedan area. 5 KIA

15 May 1940: Bloch 152 of GC II/1 possibly shot down by friendly fire (in fight, another pilot of the same unit fired on an aircraft that he was unable to identify and saw him crash, no German loss in the area).

17 May 1940: three Blenheims 82 Sqn RAF shot down by GC I/4 and AC2 off Ostend. 9 KIA

18 May 1940: LeO 451 GB II/31 shot down by French AA near Meaux. 1 KIA
18 May 1940: Potez 631 ECN 2/13 hit by He 111, Bf 110, French AA and Morane 406 near Creil, returned to base.
18 May 1940: two Potez 631 of AC2 shot down by Blenheim 248 Sqn RAF off Nieuport. 3 KIA, 1 WIA
18 May 1940: Blenheim 235 Sqn RAF shot down by GC II/8 off Ostende. 3 KIA (shot down by Spitfire/Hurricanes according to RAF)

19 May 1940: L-N.411 of AB4 shot down by French AA at Etreux. Pilot KIA.

20 May 1940: Potez 631 ECN 2/13 damaged by D520.

21 May 1940: D520 GC II/3 shot down by return fire of Potez 631 ECN 4/13 (during 4th attack) over Oise. Pilot KIA

23 May 1940: Potez 631 ECN 3/13 shot down by Bloch 152 GC I/1. 1 KIA, 1 WIA
23 May 1940: French ships opened fire against a formation of V.156F of AB1 off Boulogne

24 May 1940: two Martin 167F GB I/63 shot down by Allied AA (probably British) near Lille. 5 KIA, 1 survivor
24 May 1940: Hurricane landing at Rouen attacked by a "French Curtiss" (?)

25 May 1940: 2 pilots GC II/3 wounded by French AA

26 May 1940: two Martin 167F GB I/62 shot down by GC II/3 in Amiens area.

28 May 1940: two Skuas 806 Sqn FAA reported attacks by Curtiss off Dunkerque. 1 lost, crew saved, another returned to base with gunner fatally wounded. No trace in French claims.

1 Jun 1940: Bloch 152 GC II/8 damaged by Hurricanes off Dunkerque

2 Jun 1940: Potez 631 ECN 1/13 hit by French AA over Lassigny. 1 WIA
2 Jun 1940: two Potez 631 ECN 4/13 hit by French AA over Villers-Coterets. 1 force-landed and lost. 3 WIA.

3 Jun 1940: confused battle between 501 Sqn RAF, GC I/8 and 7./JG 53 in the morning. Only two Hurricanes shot down, one possibly by a French pilot.
3 Jun 1940: Potez 631 ECN 1/13 attacked by French AA, 7 Bf 109s and 1 Bloch 152 during German raid on Paris. Pilot reported the Bf 109s were the less dangerous.
3 Jun 1940: two Potez 631 ECN 4/13 fired on by French AA (of their own airfield) during German raid on Paris.

4 Jun 1940: L-N.411 of AB4 shot down by a Polish pilot of Romorantin defence patrol. Pilot wounded.

10 Jun 1940: Laté 298 of T2 hit by AA of French ships off Honfleur and sank after landing. Crew OK.

12 Jun 1940: Bloch 152 GC I/8 shot down "in error", no more details, between Chaumont and Troyes. Pilot lightly wounded.

22 Jun 1940: CAMS 55.10 of 4S1 shot down by Morane GC III/5 near Cape Zerbib, Tunisia. Pilot wounded

Total:
17 French losses (and one more possible) to "friendly fire"
1 Belgian aircraft and 8 British one shot down by French pilots, 3 more British aircrafts possibly shot down by French pilots

For most of the cases above, more details are available

Smudger Smith 12th October 2005 21:28

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 
Regarding “friendly” fire, two that automatically spring to mind, the first is the VC awarded to Flight Sergeant Arthur Aaron, VC, DFM of No.218 (Gold Coast) Squadron. He was mortally wounded when the rear gunner of another Short Stirling opened fire on his aircraft while attacking Turin on 12/13th August 1943.

Another example again involved a 218 Squadron aircraft. On the night of 1/2nd January 1945, a damaged Avro Lancaster was returning from a raid on Vohwinkel, Germany when hit by US flak near Namur, Belgium. There was only one survivor.

Two examples, both tragic.

SMF144 14th October 2005 20:47

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 
Brian,

I just came across this incident that occurred on August 26, 1943. Nos. 403 and 421 Squadrons RCAF were taking part in Operation STARKEY, NO.5, Part I when the following was observed.



F/O J.F. LAMBERT and F/O H.J. DOWDING of 403 had excellent bursts at extremely close range, but cloud obstructed accurate view of results. 10 minutes later, 421 in the CAEN area, dived on an ME.109 and a Fw.190, which were flying in line astern. The Fw.190 obviously confused, opened fire, the Me.109 diving steeply in flames right into the ground. This E/A is claimed destroyed by 421. WING landed at 1940 hrs.

Incidently, I have supplied Hugh Haliday with several examples in which he has passed on to you several months back.

All the best,

Stephen

Jon 14th October 2005 21:11

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 
I once was friends with an old Airgunner in Gloucester, England.
He was shot down only the once in the war, in a Wellington at night onthe way home from a raid. They had gone off course , flew over a Royal Navy ship that fired four shots at them.....Three hit ! and Mr Bircher had no choice but to leave his Wellington at 10,000 feet.
He always said it was the best shooting of the war ???

Jon 14th October 2005 21:19

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 
I cant remember the details but i am sure another member will !
A USAF Mosquito with a high ranking officer on board flew in a raid to observe the bombing over Europe.
I think as the formation was attacked by Luftwaffe fighters they flew into the formation for protection and....in a Twin engined aircraft often not seen by US gunners was shot down within seconds. I think the US officer and his pilot survived.

mhuxt 14th October 2005 23:34

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 
4 April 1945, 25 Group. April 4: Wesendorf airfield - The airfield was bombed with good results.

Colonel Troy Crawford, 446th CO, was flying in an RAF Mosquito as an observer. While trying to join with the group, 2 ME 262 fighter jets flew along side Colonel Crawford's plane. The RAF Mosquito, like a German ME 262, was a twin engine aircraft and, from a distance, they look a bit alike. When the crews saw what they thought were 3 ME 262's coming at them, they opened fire and did their job well, knocking the Mosquito out of the air. Colonel Crawford and his pilot parachuted to the ground and were taken prisoner. In just a week and a half, their POW camp would be liberated.

From:

http://www.446bg.com/index.html

MACR 13948

Cheers,

Mark

Brian 15th October 2005 16:54

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 
Hi guys

Thanks for the latest contributions, I really am grateful and will duly acknowledge all contributors in my forthcoming book by way of thanks. As I am still having problems responding, I reply to all herewith :

JUHA - yes thanks, I have picked up on past discussions but may well come back to you.

SMUDGER - I had overlooked Aaron's VC incident. Thanks for reminding me.

STEPHEN - similarly, I did not have record of the 421 Sqn incident. Thanks for this and also info provided via Hugh.

MARK & JON - I think the incidents are one and the same, in which case I do have details, although I understand the 357thFG shot two Mosquitos. Still investigating the second.

JON - I will research Mr Bircher's bale out to see if I can establish date and unit, unless you already know?

LAURENT - what can I say? Thanks a million. I have some recorded but certainly not all. I wasn't aware of the 17/5/40 Blenheim losses to French fighters. I've had a look at 82 Squadron's ORB and note 11 Blenheims failed to return from that mission. I wonder which three were shot down by the French fighters? Do you know? I would dearly like any additional details related to ALL the incidents you record, including names of crews/pilots responsible etc. May be you would care to write to me with details at:

31 Raynham Road, Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk IP32 6EA.

BOB COLLIS - we must be practically neighbours! Perhaps you would care to phone (01284-760271), and perhaps we could meet for a chat. I, too, have long maintained an interest in East Anglian airwar incidents.

Gentlemen! I thank you all for your help - please keep it coming!

Brian

Laurent Rizzotti 15th October 2005 18:39

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 
Hi Brian,

I would like better to send you an e-mail. Send one to my own adress: october44 _at_ gmail.com.

As for the 82 Sqn losses, the book is listing the 3 crews, so yes the aircraft are identified, as least in the author's theory. IIRC he says that 3 of the 4 Blenheim having survived German fire were shot down, so maybe the report of the remaining crew may be useful to describe a fighter attack on the return leg.

Six Nifty .50s 15th October 2005 19:20

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mhuxt
4 April 1945, 25 Group. April 4: Wesendorf airfield - The airfield was bombed with good results.

Colonel Troy Crawford, 446th CO, was flying in an RAF Mosquito as an observer. While trying to join with the group, 2 ME 262 fighter jets flew along side Colonel Crawford's plane. The RAF Mosquito, like a German ME 262, was a twin engine aircraft and, from a distance, they look a bit alike. When the crews saw what they thought were 3 ME 262's coming at them, they opened fire and did their job well, knocking the Mosquito out of the air. Colonel Crawford and his pilot parachuted to the ground and were taken prisoner. In just a week and a half, their POW camp would be liberated.

From:

http://www.446bg.com/index.html

MACR 13948

Cheers,

Mark


The plane was a USAAF Mosquito that belonged to the 25th Bomb Group. This unit lost at least four Mosquitoes shot down in error during the war. I could provide the dates, serial numbers and other details if Brian doesn't have them.

Franek Grabowski 15th October 2005 19:31

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 
Brian
Have you got my e-mail?

Brian 16th October 2005 11:35

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 
Hi Mark

Please - I have only note of the one loss so the othres would be very much appreciated. Thanks.

Hi Franek,

No, I haven't been able to open my e-mails for a week or so - hopefully the problem will be rectified tomorrow (Monday). I will reply asap. Thanks in advance!

Brian

Brian 16th October 2005 23:20

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 
Hi guys

I am extremely grateful for the wonderful response to my many queries. Here are some more that have been bugging me for a considerable time. Hopefully someone out there may be able to help - please!

19/5/40: Lysander P1720 shot down by Spitfire (who was the Spitfire pilot?) St Quentin area

21/5/40: Blenheim L9266 shot down by HURRICANE (who?) crashed nr Arras early pm.

27/5/40: Lysander P1685 shot down by Hurricane (who?) near Calais, crash-landed Hawkinge

17/7/40: Lysander L6870 from Army School of Co-operation shot down by Hurricane (who?) near Exeter 1600 hours

24/7/40: Two Skuas 808 Squadron shot down by Spitfires from 610 Squadron. Serial numbers of Skuas? Both force-landed at Worthy Down.

4/9/40: Was P/O Janusz Macinski of 111 Sqn the pilot murdered by civilians in London in the belief that he was German?

24-25/9/40: DH90 X9337 from RAF Acklington attacked by RAF night fighter (who?) 2050 hours

13-14/11/40: Two Hampdens - X2995 of 44 Sqn and P4338 of 61 Sqn - shot down by Spitfires (who were the pilots responsible?) X2995 shortly after take-off from RAF Waddington; P4338 force-landed near RAF Leaconsfield.

Any help will be most appreciated. I have similar queries for 1941-1944!!

Cheers and have a nice one

Brian

Franek Grabowski 16th October 2005 23:37

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 
Brian
I have to crawl through my database but I am afraid most of the incidents are just hopeless. If recognised by authorities, chances that they are mentioned are just minimal.
Perhaps adding place and time will help to narrow down possible candidates.

4/9/40: Was P/O Janusz Macinski of 111 Sqn the pilot murdered by civilians in London in the belief that he was German?

According to my data, he baled out over the Channel off Folkestone and reputedly was straffed in sea by the Germans.

Brian 17th October 2005 11:24

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 
Hi Franek

I have added more information to my above listing - hope this helps. Do you know the identity of the Polish pilot allegedly murdered by civilians?

Franek Grabowski 17th October 2005 19:24

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 
Laurent
Quote:

21 Dec 1939: Potez 637 GR II/33 shot down by 2 Hurricanes over Meuse. 2 KIA, 1 WIA
I have this on 18 Dec. Lt. Sagan, Lt. Castellana, Adj. Pernot downed near Souilly by F/L Reginald Eric Lovett of 73 Sqn.
Quote:

18 May 1940: Blenheim 235 Sqn RAF shot down by GC II/8 off Ostende. 3 KIA (shot down by Spitfire/Hurricanes according to RAF)
Do you mean L9395?
Quote:

4 Jun 1940: L-N.411 of AB4 shot down by a Polish pilot of Romorantin defence patrol. Pilot wounded.
The pilot was ppor. pil. Jan Daszewski flying MS.406C-1. French pilot was second-maitre Rochon, he passed away in 1997.Another incident involving Polish airmen occured on the same day.adj.chef Herve, plut. pil. Henryk Kowalski and plut. pil. Stanisław Tomicki flying MB.152C-1s of Chateaudun chimney flight bounced a LeO 450, reputedly with no human losses.Brian
Quote:

17/7/40: Lysander L6870 from Army School of Co-operation shot down by Hurricane (who?) near Exeter 1600 hours
There was a claim for Ju 88 by 145 Sqn at the time, perhaps CR or ORB should be checked for any clue?
Quote:

24/7/40: Two Skuas 808 Squadron shot down by Spitfires from 610 Squadron. Serial numbers of Skuas? Both force-landed at Worthy Down.
A question to Ray Sturtivant. I have 54 Sqn possibly involved.
Quote:

13-14/11/40: Two Hampdens - X2995 of 44 Sqn and P4338 of 61 Sqn - shot down by Spitfires (who were the pilots responsible?) X2995 shortly after take-off from RAF Waddington; P4338 force-landed near RAF Leaconsfield.
I suppose you mean Leconfield. I know 303 Sqn was based there at the time, perhaps other units as well. I am not awared of involvement of the former, however.I recall a story by Tom Neill concerning Hampden icident more less at the time but I was unable to verify it.
Quote:

Do you know the identity of the Polish pilot allegedly murdered by civilians?
No, I am awared of no such incident.

Laurent Rizzotti 17th October 2005 22:34

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 
Some more cases in October 1944

22/9/44:
A flight of P-38s dropped four napalm bombs within the 30th US division's lines, destroying an ammunition dump and six vehicles and killing two men and wounding four during an abortive attack on the West Wall on 22 September.

2/10/44:
A US Thunderbolt pilot claimed a 'Mosquito in German markings' and actually destroyed a 140 Squadron photo-recce aircraft.

Between 3 and 4/10/44:
Typhoons attacked 43rd British Division S of Arnhem.

Between 9 and 12/10/44:
As part of the expansion to meet the needs of war, an independent paratroop company was established. It consisted of 150 Assyrians and 50 Kurds with a small British element. In 1944 they were deployed to Italy in response to a request from the commander Adriatic Forces for "paratroops trained in mountain warfare". The Adriatic forces had the task of not only helping the partisans in their fight against the Germans but of sealing off the ports the Germans would use when withdrawing troops from the Docecanese and other parts of the Aegean. One such port was Sarande on the westernmost tip of Albania. To seize the port a commando (about 250 strong) had landed on the outskirts but could not advance further because of the enemy resistance from Mount Sarande overlooking the port, hence the call for reinforcements.
Just before dawn, the levies were landed by the Royal Navy at a spot about five kilometres south of the port. At first light the German commander saw the landing but decided, as a good commander should, that his men could have breakfast first and be ready to fight the enemy on full stomachs. Little did he know that the Assyrians and Kurds were hardy men whose abode was the mountains of Iraq. One of their pastimes was to race up and down these mountains and the Mount Sarande climb, about half the average height of their home mountains, presented little difficulty. Setting off at a jog they outstripped their British officers and caught the German garrison who were just finishing breakfast. After a brisk firefight, the Germans surrendered and the Levies settled down to their breakfast. Unfortunatley, the Germans were not the only people taken by suprise. The Royal Navy and the RAF had not realized that the mountain was in friendly hands and attacked with naval gunfire and rockets. RAB Khamshi Schlemon Bukko was dispatched with a patrol to contact the Commando and get them to send a message to HQ that the objective had been captured and would they please ask the Navy and the RAF to cease firing. Seeing troops coming from the direction of the enemy, the commandos opened fire. Bukko was hit but had enough strength left to call out "Stop shooting. We are British". His cry, in a Syriac accent, was greated with derision and another burst of fire. "British are you? Not b...y likely". Eventually the commandos saw their error and ceased firing. Henceforth the Paratroop Company sardonically reffered to themselves as experts in combined operations, having been shot up by the Navy, Army and RAF in a single operation.

11/10/44:
At 1040 the CP of the 1st Battalion, 351st US Regiment was bombed and strafed by friendly planes. Twenty-eight casualties were inflicted (Italian frontline).

13/10/44:
P-40N A29-688 of 80 Sqn RAAF shot down by rocket fire [friendly?] into Waroe Bay, New Guinea with F/O Peter Parkinson was KIA.

14/10/44:
One 401st BG B-17 took "friendly fire" from a gunner on a B-17 from another Group who was testing his guns, taking several 50 calibre bullet holes in the fusilage.

18/10/44:
In Italy, 1st Bn, 168th US Infantry: "Some consternation followed when friendly aircraft bombed and strafed the Battalion area at 1415 hours. At least three planes dove to strafe the road from the Battalion command post at Hill 525 (916293) to M. della Formiche. Several bombs were dropped before ground troops could signal with yellow smoke grenades provided for that purpose. As soon as the smoke became noticeable, the planes ceased their fire and began to circle the area. Fortunately no casualties were suffered by the Battalion from this mistake. "

19/10/44:
Junkers Ju 88 A-4/Trop WNr: 140556 of 1.(F)/124 Code: G2+BH Wreckplace: Ivalo Date: 19th October 1944
The Plane was shot down by own anti-aircraft gun. They (Flakcrew) assumed that the plane was an enemyplane and was on mission parachuting partisans. The plane got several hits and started to flame. Pilot ordered all to bale out. Oblt. Werner Horst BO baled out and survived, but wounded badly. Fw. Oswald Heider BF baled out and survived Fw. Ernst Beck BM baled out but did not survived Stfw. Willi Welz FF, MIA, probably did not get out of the plane. There was Jumo 211B engine, wheel and lots of aluminium pieces on the ground in 1990. Engine and wheel has disappeared in 1995 In Year 2001 spinner has raised from a pond.
Source:
http://www.koti.phnet.fi/junkers/JU88LEKOLAE.html

21/10/44:
In Italy, 1st Bn, 133rd US Infantry: "Early on the morning of 21 October a plan was formulated to attack Zena Castle following the firing of white phosphorus by our Cannon Company, the 151st Field Artillery Battalion, and our attached platoon of Company A, 84th Chemical Mortar Battalion. The assault began at 1015 hours, Company C leading, B in its wake. Company C was very near its objective when friendly aircraft, flying a mission with their target 3000 yards to the front of the castle, dropped bombs in and around the fortress. The bombs inflicted casualties on some of our men. Information given to us later revealed that the target of the planes was to have been marked with white and violet smoke. Presumably several fliers had mistaken the smoke from our white phosphorus for the smoke marking our target."

29/10/44:
Douglas A-20J-10-DO Havoc 43-9912 converted to F-3A. Crashed Oct 29, 1944 (155th PRS) during attempted emergency landing at St. Dizier/Robinson Airdrome (A-64) in France after receiving friendly fire. 2 crew killed.

31/10/44:
B-17G 43-38431 527BS 379BG 117 8 Crashed due to Friendly Fire 5 Goodier, Charles W ENG Knodishall


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