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-   -   Pilots Missing Over Korea 1952/53 (http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=574)

Chris Goss 22nd February 2005 16:10

Pilots Missing Over Korea 1952/53
 
158781 Flt Lt D F W Hinton DFC and 52935 Sqn Ldr G S Hulse DFC both went missing over Korea (2 Jan 52 & 13 Mar 53) with 9 FBS/49 FBW and 336 FIS/4 FIW respectively. Both flew in WW 2-Hinton with 135 Sqn (1 kill) and Hulse with 213 Sqn (shot down twice). Does anyone have any info on them, either with the RAF or USAF?

JoeB 22nd February 2005 19:29

Hinton's F-84E 51-664 was reported downed by ground fire near Sunan NK, parachute didn't open, classed MIA. There are no known Soviet or Chinese aerial claims for 2 Jan '52.

Hulse was credited MiG-15's on three occasions, official USAF credits for .5 on 25 Oct '52, 1 9 Dec '52, and .5 13 Mar '53 the day he himself was downed in F-86E-6 (Canadair built) 52-2879.

There are 6 known claims of F-84's and F-86's by the PLAAF that day, and 2 F-86 claims by the Soviets, one by StLt GN Berelidze of the 913 IAP (? I believe) and the more interesting by St Lt. VN Lapyigin of the 535 IAP, said to fall immediately adjacent to Antung airfield.

Hulse's a/c is the only documentable loss that day. USAF records put the location at grid coordinates east of Antung over NK (but might not record a location inside China). A 51th FIW F-86 and a pair of 474th FBG F-84's were also damaged by MiG's.

Hulse is listed in the DPMO Korwald database as MIA; "MiG Alley" by Thompson and McLaren says he died as a POW.

Joe

Chris Goss 22nd February 2005 21:02

Many thanks for a most useful reply. The other 2 RAF attached losses were Wg Cdr J R Baldwin DSO DFC (16 FIS/51FIW) on 15 Mar 52 and Flt Lt J E Y King (25 FIS/51 FTW) on 4 Jun 53. What might you have on these 2-I have read all the stories about Baldwin disappearing into cloud but have nothing on King. Incidentally, RAF records have all 4 as still being missing

JoeB 23rd February 2005 00:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Goss
Many thanks for a most useful reply. The other 2 RAF attached losses were Wg Cdr J R Baldwin DSO DFC (16 FIS/51FIW) on 15 Mar 52 and Flt Lt J E Y King (25 FIS/51 FTW) on 4 Jun 53. What might you have on these 2-I have read all the stories about Baldwin disappearing into cloud but have nothing on King. Incidentally, RAF records have all 4 as still being missing

For Baldwin not much to add, became separated on weather recon flight and didn't return; it was a day of poor weather with no UN or known communist AF aerial claims.

The cause for King is given as the same, unknown became separated in bad weather, and again it was apparently a bad weather day with no aerial claims by either side.

Joe

Chris Goss 23rd February 2005 09:35

Many thanks-any idea of the locatiosn where both were last seen and/or the serial numbers of the ac they were flying?

Frank Olynyk 23rd February 2005 15:44

Chris,
I have them, and can get them for you tonight (off to work now). But you can find them by searching for KORWALD (Korean War Aircraft Loss Database), part of the US DPMO.

Frank.

paulmcmillan 23rd February 2005 17:32

Baldwin F-86E 50-668

http://www.dtic.mil/dpmo/pmkor/korwald_info_2946.htm


King F-86E 51-2838

http://www.dtic.mil/dpmo/pmkor/korwald_info_2874.htm

vzlion 27th February 2005 18:51

OT: Korean War Aircraft Loss Database (KORWALD
 
Korean War Aircraft Loss Database. Very interesting that there is a data bose on Korean War aircraft/crew losses but not on Vietnam. The Center for Naval Analysis compiled such a list for, "CNA Lost/Damaged Data Base", but I have never seen any mention whatsoever of it anywhere on the web.

Walt

JoeB 27th February 2005 19:29

Re: OT: Korean War Aircraft Loss Database (KORWALD
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by vzlion
Korean War Aircraft Loss Database. Very interesting that there is a data bose on Korean War aircraft/crew losses but not on Vietnam.

There's a book that's equivalent, "Vietnam Air Losses" by Chris Hobson. Actually it has much more detail of each loss than Korwald, which you might expect for a book you pay $ for v. a free website. Same theme of get what you pay for, while Korwald is IMO an amazing piece of research to be available free to everybody, it's got some limitations, and some debates of KW combat losses and claim/loss matching go off track due to those limitations, esp if trying to be precise.

For example on the classic debate of how many F-86's were *really* lost in air combat, the "damaged" F-86 air combat incidents in K are a pretty small subset of all such cases, not particularly the more serious ones and not writeoffs as some assume (fairly reasonably assume since it's "damaged" in a column headed "circumstance of loss"). The K damage incidents are just those in a certain type of record (v. other types the compilers don't seem to have used). And a few outright losses have wrong causes or are omitted (esp. if a pilot wasn't lost, because it's about aircrews bottomline, not airplanes) so the Korwald total of around 77 (as I count) is low by around 10 planes, if you include safe return but writeoff due to air combat damage, and the difference isn't made up by simple tea leaf reading of vague entries in Korwald, a few MiG losses in there weren't actually, a few to other causes were or probably were MiG losses, and a few are omitted altogether (wheels down landing later written off).

Joe

Phantom 13th January 2007 17:11

Re: Pilots Missing Over Korea 1952/53
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Goss (Post 2559)
Many thanks for a most useful reply. The other 2 RAF attached losses were Wg Cdr J R Baldwin DSO DFC (16 FIS/51FIW) on 15 Mar 52 and Flt Lt J E Y King (25 FIS/51 FTW) on 4 Jun 53. What might you have on these 2-I have read all the stories about Baldwin disappearing into cloud but have nothing on King. Incidentally, RAF records have all 4 as still being missing


First of all, I have only just joined this group, so hello to all !

As far as Wing Commander Baldwin is concerned, there was a programme on TV recently, in which it was mentioned that he may well have been captured, and taken to the Soviet Union. There isn't any information on what may have happened to him subsequently.


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