31st FG losses on 9 June 1943
 

Hello,

I have found very confusing data on my various sources about the losses of the 31st FG on 9 June 1943. My sources are: the books "Spiftires over Sicily" and "Beyond Courage", the Squadron signal book about the 31st FG and the Osprey book about 53° Stormo.

Two pilots were shot down this day, 1st Lt McMann in the morning and 1st LT Gordon Rich in the afternoon.

Sources 1, 2 and 4 all said that McMann was rescued, but the ABMC database show a 1st Lt Stanley McMann of 308th FS, 31st FG that is commemorated as missing since 9 June 1943.

On the other hand the rescue of Rich by a RAF Walrus is described in Beyond Courage. It took place on the 11th, and this book says the shot down and rescue took place on the 11th, while all other sources said he was shot down on the 9th, the Signal book adding he returned two days later. So maybe he spent two days in his dinghy, but the precise description of the event in the book is in conflict with this, saying he spend several hours floating in his Mae West.

By the way, none of the serials of the Spitfire is known. And there is no MACR for McMann, but for this area and time period, it is not surprising.

I have not the book "In a now forgotten sky" that might have more details.

So my questions are:
1) can someone confirm if McMann was killed or not this day ?
2) can someone confirm the date when Gordon Rich was shot down ? And when he was rescued ?
3) I would like to have the serials of the Spitfires they flew, but I have no big hope

Thanks in advance, best regards

Re: 31st FG losses on 9 June 1943
 

In a Now Forgotten Sky doesn't list any McMann as a combat loss at the date you mentioned , neither any clear details on combat activities between June 6 to June 11 , 1943

PS: Udf was aware about the pages u've mentioned though combat dates not chronologically ordered

Re: 31st FG losses on 9 June 1943
 

"In a now forgotten sky" Pp 93-94
9 JUN 1943, Pantelleria.
Lt McMann was returning to Korba (falling oil pressure), spent 6 hours in the water, rescued before the day's end.
Lt Rich had to bail out just north of Pantelleria and was rescued, Lt Mosby flying in the Walrus to direct the pilot to Rich's dinghy.

Re: 31st FG losses on 9 June 1943
 

Hello Laurent,
From what I have.
June 1943
7-6-43 - a/c lost Korbe Raid - pilot/ fate not known.
7-6-43 - 309 Sqn - 1Lt. R.M. Lupton jr a/c damaged.
9-6-43 - 308 Sqn - a/c shot down, 1Lt. McCann (McMann ?) ditched, returned.
9-6-43 - a/c ? - Lt. Rich bailed returned.
10-6-43 - 307 Sqn - a/c shot down by P-40 of 99 FS, 1Lt. G.V.Gooding KIA.
11-6-43 - 308 Sqn - 1Lt. M.P. Smith jr, Killed.
11-6-43 - a/c ? - Lt. Rich - POW.
26-6-43 - a/c ? - lost en route Gozo, pilot ?/fate ?
30-6-43 - ER165 - bounced onto EF632, Lt. G.B. Stevens jr ok, 1Lt. E.L Fardella injured,2 RAF fitters killed and two others injured.
30-6-43 - ES182 - Lt. J.B. Stevens jr KIA in sea off Gozo, MACR 1239(FS182).

Alex

Re: 31st FG losses on 9 June 1943
 

Thanks for your replies.

So it seems that McMann survived, according to all published books.

As for Rich, apparently he was shot down on the 9th (Alex, you have him twice on 9th and 11th, with a POW status for the second date: I can't find him in the US POW database available online).

Re: 31st FG losses on 9 June 1943
 

Laurent,

I really don't think McMann survived. If you look at the official documents:
He is currently listed on the "official" MIA list:

http://www.dpaa.mil/OurMissing/World...spx?br=aaf&a=m

He is listed as MIA on the ABM website:
http://www.abmc.gov/search-abmc-buri...5#.VXgTrlYViko

He is listed with a FOD (finding of death) on the official NARA list for Colorado:

http://media.nara.gov/media/images/28/26/28-2577a.gif

http://warmemorial.us/mediawiki3/ind...%281LT%29_WWII

As for Rich, as you note there is no POW record for him. Here is his obit:
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/8...ch.html?pg=all

It seems to say he was shot down once and spent a short time in the water. No mention of a date when that happened, but note there is no mention of being a POW which these obits usually do, if it happened.

It may be that one of the first book authors got it wrong regarding McMann and the other authors just followed his "lead". It is all rather confusing, but I do think the official documents are more likely to be correct.

Re: 31st FG losses on 9 June 1943
 

"In a now forgotten sky" p.130
There is a picture of a Lt. captioned :
"Lt. Gordon Rich, Pomigliano, Italy, Oct. 1943. In June Lt. Rich ditched off Pantelleria and was rescued by an RAF Walrus."