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Marius 19th August 2005 09:59

German Claims in Poland 1939
Hi all,

in 2002 was published my book Luftwaffe over Poland 1939 Part 1 Jagdflieger (in Polish language). There are listed all Bf 109 and Bf 110 claims known to me at that time. Now 3 years after that I could make an update of them. Is somebody interested on it?


Dmitry Volodin 19th August 2005 11:54

Re: German Claims in Poland 1939
Hi Marius!
Bf 110 claims of I./ZG1 is terra incognita for me and names of successful pilots of I.(Z)/LG1 is unknown in several combats. Can you add something new?

Best regards

Larry Hickey 19th August 2005 14:57

Re: German Claims in Poland 1939

I have used your book on the Polish Campaign extensively and would like to see any updates on German victory claims for that period, especially for the Bf110. There are still about four victory claims for ZG 1 that are not fully identified. I hope that you've been able to obtain these. Great job on a difficult subject. Those of us researching the Polish Campaign very much appreciate your efforts!

Look forward to hearing from you.

Larry Hickey

John Beaman 19th August 2005 17:18

Re: German Claims in Poland 1939
Hi Marius:

Excuse my ignorance, but how does your list differ from those of Tony Woods and Jochen Prien? Are you "adding" to those using different sources? Are you adding more information to the basic claim data?


Laurent Rizzotti 19th August 2005 18:07

Re: German Claims in Poland 1939
Hi John,

Tony's lists are not covering much of Poland 1939 claims and also missing a part of those in 1940... the missig claims are those of the ZG units.

If you go to the Tony's website you will see lists made by Jim Perry that are more complete than Tony's (covering 1945 and having more full names among other things). The files are in CSV format so you can open them with Excel or Access (and probably any editor) after a little formating.

While Tony's files list official claims (coming from Lufwaffes files), Jim's are also using books to fill the blanks. A great job of his part and a great gesture to made them available on the Net.

Marius 19th August 2005 18:20

Re: German Claims in Poland 1939
Hi John,
I have worked on the list published in Jochen Prien`s book together with Winfried Bock (and Hans Ring). This was at the end of the nineties. After that I found some more details and additionally had analized every single aerial combat in Poland including all published Polish sources since 1947.
Some claims of Bf 110`s are not sure for 100%, but nevertheless I finished it as it could be (perhaps with some errors).

many thanks for kindly words about my book. Many Poles do not like it, because it is free of legends and does not confirm 100 aerial victories (as stated by Cynk).

Perhaps I only could make an actual list for Bf 110 claims, because - indeed - Bf 109 claims were published in Prien`s book and as I remember there shouldn`t be many changes.

Could somebody send me the list of Tony Woods?
Thanks, Marius

Larry Hickey 19th August 2005 18:31

Re: German Claims in Poland 1939

Yes, sending only changes or updates to your Bf110 claims for the Polish Campaign would be just fine. Likewise for any updates to the Bf109 claims, if any, in the Prien volumes, with which I'm well familiar. It turns out that only three of a reported six I./ZG 1 claims for the campaign have not yet been published. Do you have these? Do you also have any additional Luftwaffe claims info for units other than Bf109/110s?

Thanks for your assistance.

steve sheridan 19th August 2005 21:06

Re: German Claims in Poland 1939
Hi Marius,

A list of your ME110 kills or losses would indeed be very interesting, im sure.
Has you rightly say, the ME109 kills and losses have been made available to
fellow enthusiasts, via Priens excellent works on the Luftwaffe Jagdfliegerbande.
Any update on your your work would be most appreciated.


Jim P. 19th August 2005 21:08

Re: German Claims in Poland 1939
The 110 stuff from Poland that I added to my files, if I remember correctly, were sent to me by Franek G. I think, and was largely extracted from Marius' work, as the author of the 2-vol. set on the PAF, Cynk I think his name is - it was a few years ago. That PAF history is pretty darned good piece work too.

Marius 19th August 2005 21:43

Re: German Claims in Poland 1939
Hi Jim,
Cynk`s book has many errors concerning the Luftwaffe details (I mean the Polish campaign). He stated about 100 destroyed German planes by Polish fighters, but after appr. 15 years of my research I actually can confirm only 40-45 (destroyed 60-100%). Cynk only operated with the GQM loss list and for example did not researched for hours of German operations or even places were the planes crashed. For example he stated about a He 111 lost in the Kutno area as a claim for 123 squadron over Warsaw (!!).

which claims of I./ZG 1 were published?


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