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-   -   Any allied claim on 13/12/41 at 18.15 near Morlaix ? (http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=51794)

gilles collaveri 14th August 2018 11:03

Any allied claim on 13/12/41 at 18.15 near Morlaix ?
 
Dear all,

Any allied claim on 13 Dec. 1941 at 18h15 at the North of Morlaix airport ?

I explain why this question.

we found the remains of a Heinkel 111 near Morlaix airport. As per Luftwaffe Archives (thanks Matti), and also confirmed by local testimonies, this machine crashed on 13 Dec. 1941 at 18h15.

It looks very much like an engine failure at take off, however, I would like to be sure that this machine was not shot down by an allied fighter shortly after take off.

Thus my question..... Any allied claim on 13 Dec. 1941 at 18h15 at the North of Morlaix airport ?

thanks in advance, guys.

GC

Chris Goss 14th August 2018 12:59

Re: Any allied claim on 13/12/41 at 18.15 near Morlaix ?
 
Gilles: No claims and this is an RAF question so really should be on the other board!

gilles collaveri 14th August 2018 13:50

Re: Any allied claim on 13/12/41 at 18.15 near Morlaix ?
 
OOPS ! of course,

thanks Chris

Gilles

Merlin 14th August 2018 18:22

Re: Any allied claim on 13/12/41 at 18.15 near Morlaix ?
 
"13 Dec. 1941 at 18h15 at the North of Morlaix airport" means at full darkness.

Did RAF nightfighters operate over France at that time? - I beleave not.

gilles collaveri 15th August 2018 00:20

Re: Any allied claim on 13/12/41 at 18.15 near Morlaix ?
 
MMM... I would say yes, nighfighters operated above France.

Squadron 23 started mid 1941.

OK, the results were not very good, but they did flew over France.

Chris Goss 15th August 2018 18:55

Re: Any allied claim on 13/12/41 at 18.15 near Morlaix ?
 
Not strictly night fighter but night intruder?

Adriano Baumgartner 15th August 2018 22:14

Re: Any allied claim on 13/12/41 at 18.15 near Morlaix ?
 
GILLES,

Unless we do have the take-off time and crash time to compare, we can not discard the possibility of enemy action.

The take-off time would give us an idea if he tried to return or took any emergency action or not.

My own guess, from reading a similar crash accident from KGr 100, is that the crew faced the most feared emergency a pilot can have: engine failure just after take-off, just after the boundaries of the airdrome. I do remember what was the minimum single-engine control speed for the Heinkel He 111 fully loaded...guess around 200-215 km/h. IF he was still around 200-300 feet, there would be no room to try to clean up the machine and gain speed...and I do not know by heart the geography of the terrain in question. Was there woods at that time around, like near Vannes-Meucon (KGr 100 airfield)? If so, the risk management and chances of survival were not to great...I do not understand why the LW choose Vannes-Meucon for KGr 100, for instance...not fully operational, there were woods around, not sufficient room to accomodate in hangars all machines, etc....quite a mess of an airfield for a specialized unit....what about Morlaix??

A Heinkel He 111 Flight Manual would give us the actions needed (by the crew) to keep that machine flying to a nearest suitable airfield or to avoid, eventually spinning. Do you know if the machine hit the ground inverted or in a nose down position or in level flight? IT certainly burned a lot, if just after take-off with the full fuel load + cargo on board...The He 111 flight manual would also give us an idea of the minimum single engine control speed (blue line)...From what you PM me, I believe they were above the maximum gross weight...just a guess....

Adriano Baumgartner

Adriano Baumgartner 15th August 2018 22:15

Re: Any allied claim on 13/12/41 at 18.15 near Morlaix ?
 
Sorry...read: "I do NOT remember what was the minimum single-engine control speed." on third paragraph.


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