Identification of losses on 19/05/44
 

Hello all

I'm trying to identify the P-47 (P-51?) claimed shot down in the triangle:Quenstedt/Quedlinburg/Aschersleben.

Any ideas?

Michel

Re: Identification of losses on 19/05/44
 

Good afternoon Michel !

Is your request leading to the claims of Heinrich Bartels, 11./JG 27, claiming three P-47 (1 P 51) between 13:25 and 13:30 hrs this day ?.

Re: Identification of losses on 19/05/44
 

Hello Michel,
What was pilot's fate ?
POW, KIA ,RTD or EVD ?
Alex

Re: Identification of losses on 19/05/44
 

All MACR P47 & P51's for the date you search.
Only 1 9AF.
P47 - MACR 4969
The rest of the macr's were 8AF P47 & P51's
4809;4983;4986;4989;4992;4993;4994;4998;4999;5000; 5103;5104;5290.
Alex

Re: Identification of losses on 19/05/44
 

Effectively Horst,it's about the claims of Bartels

But what exactly is the identity of the losse (s) in that triangle?..Lt Bernard Elsen (362th FG),or one of 356th FG (4994,5104,5103),if there were losses?

Michel

Re: Identification of losses on 19/05/44
 

4809 - pow.
4983 - pow.
4986 - kia.
4989 - kia.
4992 - pow.
4993 - kia.
4994 - pow.
4998 -pow.
4999 - pow.
5000 - pow.
5103 - pow.
5104 - pow.
5290 - pow.

Alex

Re: Identification of losses on 19/05/44
 

Hello Michel,

2nd Lt Elsen crashed at 2010 hrs near La Ferriere, 15 km south of Cambrai in France (MACR 4969/German casualty No. J 1128).
The crash places of the 356th FG Thunderbolts are
1,5 km south of Müden, northwest of Gifhorn 1315 hrs (MACR 5104/J 1107),
Schäferhof southwest of Nienburg 1345 hrs (MACR 5103/J 1109) and
road Hengelo-Oldenzaal/NL 1320 hrs (MACR 4994/J 1110).

Regards
Leo

Re: Identification of losses on 19/05/44
 

Thanks All

Therefore,the claims of Bartels do not correspond to anything(as often!),unless it's against P-51(however confuse a P-51 with a P-47)....

Michel

Re: Identification of losses on 19/05/44
 

Hello Michel,

here are the known Mustang losses (MACR / German casualty number / crash place / time):

5290 J 1108 near Leeseringen, 6 km southwest Nienburg 1430 hrs
4986 J 1118 Messdorf, 24 km northwest Stendal 1305 hrs
4983 J 1142 road Breitenfeld-Niendorf near Moelln 1225 hrs
4989 J 1120 Domäne Lietzow, 4 km west of Nauen 1300 hrs
4992 J 1106 belly-landing 4 km south of Fallingbostel 1200 hrs
4993 J 1127 Kolonie Breiteiche, 3 km east of Mieste 1255 hrs
4809 J 1119 2 km west of Buschnow, 20 km northeast of Brandenburg/Havel 1345 hrs
4998 J 1103 near Krummbeck, 3 km northwest of Warsow/Meckl. 1400 hrs
4999 J 1126 7,5 km north of Wittstock 1345 hrs
5000 J 1113 Klietz, 15 km northeast of Stendal 1415 hrs.

Regards
Leo

Re: Identification of losses on 19/05/44
 

Hello all

Thanks to the informations provided by Leo,so,no P-47,P-51 where shot down in the triangle:Quenstedt/Aschersleben/Quedlingburg.

So,the three claims of Bartels ARE TOTALLY UNFOUNDED:all the falls of P-47,P-51 are very far from the famous triangle.

On microfilms,these have not been officially confirmed by RLM,does it seem(and for good reason!),no wreckage could be found....for example.

Questions
a)Why are they accounted for 83.84.85.??
b)Based on what?
c)And by whom?

Best Regards
Michel