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-   -   Bordfliegergruppe 196 as of 01.09.1943. (http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=2075)

ju55dk 31st July 2005 10:23
Bordfliegergruppe 196 as of 01.09.1943.
 
For those who are interested in this unit. It was probably not easy to be Gruppenkdr. of such a spread out unit! Kdr. was Major Wiegmink.

Junker

derek hicks 31st July 2005 19:38
Re: Bordfliegergruppe 196 as of 01.09.1943.
 
Would you by any chance know anything of a Luftwaffe Pilot. Unserm Einheits.
I have a Luftwaffe dagger inscribed "Unserm Einheits Fuhrer zum 28 Geburtstag T3/VIII" which I assume is Bordflieger fw62 Unit 196. Any information would be gratefully appreciated.

ju55dk 31st July 2005 20:53
Re: Bordfliegergruppe 196 as of 01.09.1943.
 
Unserm Einheits Führer zum 28 Geburtstag means:

Our unit leader to his 28 birthday!

I do not know what T3/VIII stands for! Where do you have the information that the dagger belonged to a man from Bordfliegergruppe 196?? Of the Fw 62 there was only build 4 prototypes!!

Junker

derek hicks 1st August 2005 15:57
Re: Bordfliegergruppe 196 as of 01.09.1943.
 
Hi Junker

Thanks for your prompt reply. I have to admit that I'm researching this item on behalf of a colleague who does not have a computer. Apparently it is a mint Luftwaffe 2nd pattern dagger with the inscription mentioned being inscribed, as I remember, on the cross guard (Unserm Einheits Fuhrer zum 28 Geburtstag T3/VIII). From another source I was inform that this man served with 1/Bordfliegerstaffel 196 (1.Shipboard Sqdn 196). Unit 196 flew fw 62's reconnaissance. Grateful any other information you can offer. Thanks

ju55dk 1st August 2005 17:04
Re: Bordfliegergruppe 196 as of 01.09.1943.
 
Hi.

It is difficult without a name on the guy! 1/196 did not fly the Fw 62 as it never entered service! T3/VIII might point to the Fokker seaplane but that is an educated guess. So without further informations it will be impossible to help you.

Junker

derek hicks 8th August 2005 18:35
Re: Bordfliegergruppe 196 as of 01.09.1943.
 
Thanks for your assistance with my enquriies. My German is 'nilch' but I assume Unserm Einheits is the Pilot's name.

ju55dk 8th August 2005 19:10
Re: Bordfliegergruppe 196 as of 01.09.1943.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by derek hicks
Thanks for your assistance with my enquriies. My German is 'nilch' but I assume Unserm Einheits is the Pilot's name.
It is not the pilots name! It means our unit and Führer means leader, so it says:
Our unit leader.

Junker

Yves Marino 9th August 2005 01:19
Re: Bordfliegergruppe 196 as of 01.09.1943.
 
JU55DK, I wouldn't go so far and search for T3/VIII Fokker seaplane.
T3 was the identification code for 1(Staffel)./Bordfliegergruppe 196; VIII could be a code for a subunit (schwarm) of the 1.Staffel or simply stand for August, or....
In the copy of the document you show you'll find that 1./Bfl.gr.196 is "ein unterstellter Verband" and the Bordfliegergrupe 196 itself is an " Einheit".
So it could be that the "Einheits Führer" or better "Einheitsführer" was in fact the Gruppenkommandeur at that time and the Kammeraden from 1.Staffel made him a present.
Gruppenkommandeure of Bordfliegergruppe 196 were:
Maj Gerrit Wiegmink, 9.43 - 4.44
Maj Schmidt, 4.44 - 1944 (see more under http://www.ww2.dk/air/seefl/bfgr196.htm )
If you can find anything about them and their birthdays, than this will prove (or not) my guess.

It's a mistery for me were Derek has the information from that "which I assume is Bordflieger fw62 Unit 196" and "Unit 196 flew fw 62's reconnaissance."?!http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/images/icons/icon9.gif

Regards Yves

ju55dk 9th August 2005 08:32
Re: Bordfliegergruppe 196 as of 01.09.1943.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yves Marino
JU55DK, I wouldn't go so far and search for T3/VIII Fokker seaplane.
T3 was the identification code for 1(Staffel)./Bordfliegergruppe 196; VIII could be a code for a subunit (schwarm) of the 1.Staffel or simply stand for August, or....
It was also the code for Stab and 2/196!
In the copy of the document you show you'll find that 1./Bfl.gr.196 is "ein unterstellter Verband" and the Bordfliegergrupe 196 itself is an " Einheit".
So it could be that the "Einheits Führer" or better "Einheitsführer" was in fact the Gruppenkommandeur at that time and the Kammeraden from 1.Staffel made him a present.
Einheit could be anything from 2-3 aircraft to Gruppe/Geschwader, but your guess is as good as mine.
Gruppenkommandeure of Bordfliegergruppe 196 were:
Maj Gerrit Wiegmink, 9.43 - 4.44
Maj Schmidt, 4.44 - 1944 (see more under http://www.ww2.dk/air/seefl/bfgr196.htm )
If you can find anything about them and their birthdays, than this will prove (or not) my guess.
Wiegmink was born in july.

It's a mistery for me were Derek has the information from that "which I assume is Bordflieger fw62 Unit 196" and "Unit 196 flew fw 62's reconnaissance."?!http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/images/icons/icon9.gif

Regards Yves
It would be nice if Derek would supply a photo of the inscription?

Junker

derek hicks 9th August 2005 16:15
Re: Bordfliegergruppe 196 as of 01.09.1943.
 
Thank you so very much for all that information you've given and am sure my colleague (who doesn't have a computer) will be well pleased. I shall see if he is willing to let me borrow the Luftwaffe dagger in question to send a photo down to you. Once again I appreciate all your time and effort in assisting with this research and am sure the "leaders" you've offered will make the job so much easier. Thanks again.


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