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-   -   Late war Bf 109 pictures source (http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=27108)

Oberst 4th October 2011 00:59

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc-André Haldimann (Post 135137)
Anders,

As for "Gigi", I jet can't remember posting it: getting old those days;-))

Cheers
Marc

This one. it was marked as 'white 11' but I believe its 'black 7'.

Marc-André Haldimann 4th October 2011 18:13

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 
Thanks Oberst, for posting it.

I remember having seen it, but in which publication?

Anders and Srecko,

Flicking through Hideki Noro's excellent "LO+ST" (2009), I found a"huge" bunch of all dark Bf 109's pics, unfortunately without known W.Nr., as, for that matter, without much details:

Bf 109 G-6 or G-14 "Blaue 51", maybe found in Lechfeld, Summer 1945. Noro 2009, p. 169.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...in/photostream
http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...in/photostream

Bf 109 G-10 W.Nr. 15x xxx "Gelbe 17", Salzburg, Summer 1945. Noro 2009, p. 147.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...in/photostream
http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...in/photostream

Bf 109 G-10 W.Nr. 15x xxx "Weisse 6", 13./JG 301, Summer 1945. Noro 2009, p. 175.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...in/photostream

Bf 109 G-14/AS, W.Nr. unknown, "Schwarze 473", Fürth 1945. Noro 2009, p. 112.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...in/photostream

Bf 109 G, W.Nr. unknown, "Schwarze 51", Salzburg 1945. Noro 2009, p. 148. Scan is bad but in the book it's definitely an overall RLM 83 camouflage.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...in/photostream

And as the devil has it, Kemon 01 just posted today in his photo stream on Flickr a great shot of an overturned late-war Bf 109 G "Schwarze 1", as usual without any indication of date and place:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...in/photostream

This pretty much rounds up what I know about those overall RLM 83 camouflaged machines. A last one strikes my mind: Bf 109 G-10 W.Nr. 152 xxx "Gelbe 11" found at Deutsch Brod in 1945, and published by Janda and Poruba (2004), Messerschmitt Bf 109s of JG 52 in Deutsch Brod, JaPo, p. 46 - 53.

All told, I'm surprised myself by the comparatively large photographic evidence for those out of the main stream camouflaged machines. One wonders if all were produced by ERLA?

Cheers
Marc

Oberst 4th October 2011 19:02

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 
Schiffer Publishing - 1992 - Messerschmitt Bf109 F, G, and K. An Illustrated Study - Jochen Prien & Peter Rodeike - ISBN 0887404243

As for Bf 109 G-10 W.Nr. 152 xxx "Gelbe 11" I would consider it a very safe bet the most is not all with simular camouflage schemes were produced by Erla.
But I do not think it was a solid RLM 83.

Rasmussen 4th October 2011 19:54

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc-André Haldimann (Post 135149)
Thanks for your input; may I ask for your source?

Nearly 30 years of research exclusivly on Erla ... your correct W.Nr. for this a/c was 151 965. You find an correct colour profile in the Lorant/ Goyat - book, volume 2, page 194 ... and ... none of the Erla a/c's had an "all - in - all" RLM 83 - camouflage because none of the Erla a/c's had RLM 83 on fuselage (if it was delivered direct by factory and not repainted somewhere).

Best regards
Rasmussen

Cpt_Farrel 4th October 2011 19:58

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 
I'm certain that all the dark colored G-10's were Erla produced but I don't think that the earlier G's in dark camo are from the same origin. I think they might be from recycled airframes from older aircraft, put together at a repairshop and given a quick dark camo to blend the parts in, not by Erla though.

Unique for these dark Erla G-10's is that there was NO RLM 76 on the entire fuselage, the dark colors went all around. The wings were mostly natural metal with only wooden parts painted RLM76. That is totally in line with the latest RLM instructions for camoflage issued during the war. I got to read up on it but as I recall, these instructions included that the two upper colors were to be applied in a cloudy pattern and be taken down the sides directly over natural metal. A good description of my interpretation of these aircraft actually. :)

Black 1 is a Bf109G-2 flown in the east by JG54 and repainted in their various greens.

EDIT: Rasmussen posted while I wrote so additionally, what's your take on the colors if not 83? What about the more traditionally camoflaged G-10's from Erla, do you believe them to have been 74/75 up to the end?

Cheers! / Anders

Pilot 4th October 2011 20:07

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 
Thank you Marc, I have in meantime arranged few profiles, one top side is visible on our Facebook page

Oberst 4th October 2011 20:16

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cpt_Farrel (Post 135217)
EDIT: Rasmussen posted while I wrote so additionally, what's your take on the colors if not 83? What about the more traditionally camoflaged G-10's from Erla, do you believe them to have been 74/75 up to the end?

Cheers! / Anders

Good question thats tough to answer. Kind of like Me109G-10 Wr.N. 130 297 flown by Horst Petzschler. There are big disagreements on whether it was painted RLM 74/75 or RLM 75/82.

Pilot 4th October 2011 20:20

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 
Quote:

There are big disagreements on whether it was painted RLM 74/75 or RLM 75/82.
Oberst- any preserved sample or color image? Testimonial of workers or operators.... ?

Oberst 4th October 2011 20:28

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pilot (Post 135221)
Oberst- any preserved sample or color image? Testimonial of workers or operators.... ?

No colour images I know of. Nor do I know of any Testimonials. Here is a very good site of it: http://www.forcedlandingcollection.s...136-Bf109.html Even Claes Sundin has two different profiles, one in 74/75 and the other in 75/82(83?).

Pilot 4th October 2011 20:31

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 
Thank you Oberst :)


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