Oesau's victories in Spain
Hello all
I have a question that will seem STRANGE to some,of the Oesau "abschusse"in Spain! What is the exact number of these? 9 (Ring/Ries) but with 2 (20/07/38 and 27/07/38) not approved? 10(David Johnston in the new book:German eagles in Spanish Skies....GREAT BOOK with pictures!"whaou" and discovery (for me) of Bf.109 A!!...credited with "abschusse". 6 (according to the list established by Georg Fleischmann (KIA on 30/04/40)....a concerned witness of the time? The Fleischmann's list puts some doubts in doubt. Michel |
Re: Oesau's victories in Spain
Would be grateful for any corrections and additions:
15.7.38 I-15 ("Curtiss") Day's losses include Felipe Cirujeda Esteve of 1a Esc, Grupo 26; Jose Redondo of 1a Esc apparently by collision with Bf109; one I-15 lost to a collision with an I-16 (pilot of I-16 named Pastor) 17.7.38 I-15 ("Curtiss") 2a Esc, Grupo 26 lost Felipe Barroso Calvo KIA (exploded in mid-air, attributed to Moelders), 2 other pilots baled out WIA 18.7.38 I-16 "Rata" Alcublas area, Spain Nationalist forces claimed 5 or 6 I-16s and 5 I-15s this date. Actual losses were 3 I-16s and 2 I-15s. The I-16s lost include those of Vicente Yuste and pilot Belmonte (both 3a Esc and KIA) plus Andres Fierro baled out safely. I-15 losses include Felipe Alonso Tebar (Tobar?) fate not listed and Juan Diaz Labella KIA. Grigorii Sergeevich Nevgerskii also KIA this date against CR-32s and Bf109s 20.7.38 I-15 ("Curtiss") Grupo 26 and other units. From 17.7.38 to 23.7.38 there were nine I-16s lost and seven I-15s 27.7.38 SB-2 Grupo 12 or Grupo 24 15.8.38 I-15 ("Curtiss") Tivisa Grupo 26. Two losses this date so likely a legitimate victory. Includes CM-201 of 3a Esc, Eduardo Fernandez Prada shot down in flames (other claim by Gustav Kuell) |
Re: Oesau's victories in Spain
Hi Nick
According Georg Fleischmann 15/07/38 1 Curtis "Sagunto/Valencia 17/07/38 1 Curtis "Segorbe" 18/07/38 1 Curtis "Segorbe" 15/08/38 1 Curtis "Tivissa" 20/08/38 1 Rata "Venta de Camposines"! 15/10/38 1 Rata "Mola" 03/11/38 1 Rata "Capsanos"! Nothing about claims of 20/07/38 and 27/07/38 (Karl Ries/Hans Ring) Michel |
Re: Oesau's victories in Spain
Hello Michel,
Have you this recent mag: http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=53330 Maybe your question is regarding this very issue, I have not yet read it and have no idea what is "real score" is, but I can have a look if you want. |
Re: Oesau's victories in Spain
Thanks,if you can inform me about the article in ACE 10
Michel |
Re: Oesau's victories in Spain
Hello,
Comparing Oesau's claims and russian archives we'v got for 9 claims, 7 of them confirmed from german side: 2 individual kills* 5 shared kills 2 unconfirmed claims (no republican losses at all) * for the moment, since we still do not have all italian or spanish francoist's claims. |
Re: Oesau's victories in Spain
Quote:
17 July 1938 - Curtiss (I-15) 18 July 1938 - Rata (I-16) 23 July 1938 - Rata (I-16) - Unconfirmed 15 August 1938 - Curtiss (I-15) 20 August 1938 - Rata (I-16) 15 October 1938 - ? 3 November 1938 - "YP-36" So 7 confirmed and one unconfirmed based on Walter Oesau's personnal diary and some Legion Condor papers. |
Re: Oesau's victories in Spain
That fits with the list of Fleischmann who is contemporary.
Parenthesis,for those interested,at least 40 "abschusse" were claimed with Bf.109 A (top scorer Boddem)...a discovery and a surprise for me. Michel |
Re: Oesau's victories in Spain
Quote:
Michel, Many thanks. Will update my database over the weekend |
Re: Oesau's victories in Spain
Hi,
only litle correction: 15/08/38 1 Curtis "Tivissa" in Catalan language in or Tivisa in Spanish language 03/11/38 1 Rata "Capsanos"! Capçanes in Catalan language or Capsanes in Spanish language maybe not helps but can you find the two versions... great threat! regards |
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