Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum - German overclaims in the East. Hartmann and others...

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Re: German overclaims in the East. Hartmann and others...

Hi Gabor,

yes they are the crews in question but my both books list them under 1 GMTAP. Must be an error.

Regards

Robert

Re: German overclaims in the East. Hartmann and others...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johannes (Post 115616)

Gentlemen
Regarding the Hartmann/Obleser statement, it does is not true Obleser did not question Hartmann's claims, probably never flew together either.

What is the source?

BTW. I have always had great respect for your work.

Re: German overclaims in the East. Hartmann and others...

Hi Folks,
Checked Heinz Ewald's IL-2mH claim on March 14, 1945 in the Székesfehérvár area, around 13:00 local time. Here are the verified IL-2 losses from soviet records with the calculated local times. (Originals in Moscow time.) Locations spread in ~100 km radius:

14:20, flak
14:35, fighter (2 'Fw 190')
17:10, fighter
17:25, fighter (2 Bf 109)
16:44, flak
15:00, fighter
17:08, flak
14:20, flak
11:56, fighter

There were 5 more IL-2 losses to flak without specified times. Closest confirmed loss was: 17 VA, 96 OKRAP IL-2KR, photo-recce. plane, S/N: 11933, (AM-38F engine No.: 2511646) at 11:56 local time, downed by fighter at 1000 m altitude at Pákozd-NW, 2 km (at Székesfehérvár-E). Pilot, Ml.Lt. Leonid Semenovich Kulikovskii went down with the plane, but wounded observer, Lt.(!) Vasilii Ivanovich Romashin bailed out successfully. But this is still an hour difference from Ewald's claim! The rest is even more. So I am not sure...

Gabor