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-   -   Lt GC Duncan OS2U kill? (http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=60324)

keith A 14th July 2021 15:56

Lt GC Duncan OS2U kill?
 
According to "Fabled Fifteen" by Thomas Cleaver, George Duncan was one of only two pilots to claim an aerial victory flying the Kingfisher seaplane (an A6M-2 Rufe during the invasion of Attu in August 1943). Cleaver writes that the second was claimed over Iwo Jima in 1944. I can only find one instance, an A6M5 destroyed by Lt DW Gandy over Iwo Jima on 16 February 1945.

I should state that Duncan flew a Kingfisher from the USS Louisville during the invasion of Attu, but this was in May 1943.

Did Duncan (or his observer) claim a victory over Attu in 1943?

twocee 14th July 2021 16:55

Re: Lt GC Duncan OS2U kill?
 
In Barrett Tillman's book on Navy Fighter Squadrons he has a list at the back showing Duncan as the 12th highest scoring ace, with 13.5 confirmed claims. This was his F6F score as listed in the VF15 official squadron history and so any claim while flying the OS2U in 1943 has obviously not been included. Perhaps it was only a probable or possible?

In Gerard Moran's book on Vought aircraft he mentions only two kills by OS2Us, both of Zekes at Iwo in 1945. One was by Gandy, the other by Arthur Hickman, the rearseatman of Lt. R. Hendershott.

Frank Olynyk 14th July 2021 17:23

Re: Lt GC Duncan OS2U kill?
 
When NARA II reopens I will pull the deck log and Action Report of Louisville and see what it says. I have two kills by Kingfisher pilots in my files. The first is by Lt(jg) Robert Wheeler Hendershot on July 4, 1944 3 miles E of Iwo Jima, flying from the cruiser Santa Fe, VCS-13. The second, as noted, is by Lt(jg) Douglas William Gandy on February 16, 1945, also at Iwo Jima, flying from the Pensacola, VCS-5.

Enjoy!

Frank.

Leendert 14th July 2021 17:36

Re: Lt GC Duncan OS2U kill?
 
It appears that the deck logs of USS Louisville can be viewed online now via catalog.archives.org, Record Group 24



Regards,
Leendert

twocee 14th July 2021 18:13

Re: Lt GC Duncan OS2U kill?
 
Frank,

Thank you for that correction about Hendershot. It was indeed in the course of the Iwo cruiser bombardment on 4 July 1944. His OS2U was badly damaged by the enemy fighters but he made it back to the formation.

Stig Jarlevik 14th July 2021 18:40

Re: Lt GC Duncan OS2U kill?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank Olynyk (Post 308038)
When NARA II reopens I will pull the deck log and Action Report of Louisville and see what it says. I have two kills by Kingfisher pilots in my files. The first is by Lt(jg) Robert Wheeler Hendershot on July 4, 1944 3 miles E of Iwo Jima, flying from the cruiser Santa Fe, VCS-13. The second, as noted, is by Lt(jg) Douglas William Gandy on February 16, 1945, also at Iwo Jima, flying from the Pensacola, VCS-5.
Enjoy!
Frank.

Thanks Frank

Precisely this claim has come out a bit garbled on page 70 in your claims book.
Pilot's name is written as Hendershott (Can you confirm one T? He is spelled Hendershott on page 444 as well).
Was his claim actually acknowledged? After his name you have 0.0 in brackets, both on page 70 and 444

I cannot see VCS-13 mentioned anywhere in the book. Was this the units only claim during the war?

Cheers
Stig

PS: I take it Gandy is an addition, since I cannot find him anywhere in the book?

twocee 14th July 2021 19:06

Re: Lt GC Duncan OS2U kill?
 
Stig,

According to Moran it was Hendershott, with two ts, but the shoot-down was by his rsm, Hickman.

Frank Olynyk 14th July 2021 21:21

Re: Lt GC Duncan OS2U kill?
 
Stig,
As George said, it is Hendershott, and it was actually shot down by his gunner/radio operator, ARM2/c Arthur Edward Hickman. It is the only claim I am aware of by VCS-13. I probably didn;'t have the reference to VCS-13 at the time I prepared the list.

Enjoy!

Frank.

Frank Olynyk 14th July 2021 22:51

Re: Lt GC Duncan OS2U kill?
 
With regard to George Duncan and Louisville and having thought about it, I do not think the records filed in RG 24 as "Deck Logs" are what is needed. Either Louisville's Action Report for the Aleutians, or the War Diary, both filed in RG38. It turns out that for most of the year 1943 the USN changed their deck log procedures.

A WW2 deck log consists of two types of information: Operational and Administrative matters. Operational matters would be things like changes in speed and direction, for a carrier launching and landing aircraft, and usually aircraft losses; plus damage to the ship. Administrative matters would be things like court martials, captain's mast, deaths or injuries, sailors leaving or returning to the ship from leave, etc.

In 1943 the USN decided to separate the recording of these matters. Administrative matters were in the deck log, and operational matters were in the war diary, A war diary was prepared each month of the war, and was basically a summary of the operational matters in the deck log. In 1943 the war diary was all the operational matters normally in the deck log, and in fact was recorded on the same oversize paper (10 by 15 inches) as the deck log. As far as I am aware the war diaries have not been digitized, and must be accessed in the original. So that is what I will have to check when NARA II reopens; I do not believe that are available on line through the catalog.

Enjoy!

Frank.

Stig Jarlevik 15th July 2021 00:21

Re: Lt GC Duncan OS2U kill?
 
Frank/George

Thanks for the clarifications
Sure enough Hickman received the full claim and is shown as such in your book, Frank

Funny when Gremlins appear, they usually do so in style.... (page 70) :)

With regard to Hendershott, I got a bit suspicious about the correct spelling, since you both have him all of a sudden with one T above....

Cheers
Stig

keith A 15th July 2021 11:16

Re: Lt GC Duncan OS2U kill?
 
I assume that Duncan was a member of VCS-4 but according to this site

http://www.joebaugher.com/navy_seria...ndseries1.html

USS Louisville appears to have operated the Curtiss SOC Seagull 1942-44.

regards

Keith

twocee 15th July 2021 13:04

Re: Lt GC Duncan OS2U kill?
 
I didn't think to check that but you are quite right. Cruiser Division 4, of which Louisville was part, operated the Curtiss SOC right through into 1945. The Cleaver story now seems to be even more suspect.

twocee 15th July 2021 13:35

Re: Lt GC Duncan OS2U kill?
 
It was on August 7, 1943, during the Kiska bombardment, that CruDiv 4 SOCs tangled with "float Zeros". The following is an extract I found in an old book:

"He (Lt. J.R. Brown) saw his wingman, Lt. George C. Duncan, twist and turn to escape the stabbing arc of fire from the Zero. The radiomen in the two Louisville planes, E.W. Shannon and W.P. Watson, said later that one time they caught a Jap pilot in a cross fire from their two Seagull guns. Lt. Duncan survived 10 passes from the enemy plane.....The two planes were sieves when they were finally lifted back aboard the Louisville".

There is no actual claim to a "kill" in this account.

keith A 15th July 2021 22:49

Re: Lt GC Duncan OS2U kill?
 
Superb George! The Cleaver boo does contradict the "kill" claim later by describing Duncan's claim for a kill on June15, 1944 as his first kill.

Reading further I find the book also contradicts the VF-15 war history about the types of Japanese aircraft claimed by Duncan. Several of his "Zeke" claims become "Oscars" ( a very plausible assumption) and another is a "Judy". His claim for "Betty" bombers are actually "Sally" bombers, again a plausible assumption given that in most of these actions VF-15 is attacking JAAF airbases.

James A Pratt III 16th July 2021 18:20

Re: Lt GC Duncan OS2U kill?
 
I think this Kiska air combat was in 1942 not 1943

twocee 16th July 2021 18:51

Re: Lt GC Duncan OS2U kill?
 
Yes indeed, should have been 7 August 1942.. Otherwise it would have been quite a rush for Duncan to have joined VF15 at Atlantic City in September 1943.


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