VVS P-39 loss list ?
 

Hello all, is there any VVS P-39 loss list available somewhere online ? This weekend the remains of one were discovered near Jassy in Romania and I was curious if I could compare the location to some list.

Thanks in advance

Re: VVS P-39 loss list ?
 

Hello,
Not a specific P39 list but if you care to trawl through these "ace's" then you may get some sort of number.
For example Hartman has claim's for 81 P-39's, date for each is given.
See this link -

http://www.luftwaffe.cz/eastern.html

Alex

Re: VVS P-39 loss list ?
 

Thanks Alex, I'll give it a go !

Re: VVS P-39 loss list ?
 

Alex Smart ,

To go by the Luftwaffe , Soviet Fronts losses , AA units and Romanian AAR
claims during 1st and 2nd Iasi- Chisnau offensives as well OBD records
just in order to locate the remains of one Soviet P-39 discovered near
Iasi is like looking for a needle in hay stack !

During the two offensives numerous P-39's were lost around various
perimeters of Iasi claimed by Luftwaffe, Romanian ,German AA
and AAR pilots , in addition some of those claims can't
even be verified through 1st ,2nd and 3rd Ukrainian Fronts records ,
OBD listings or you name it and are not sufficient to locate one P-39
near Iasi . Eventhough a date would be available that won't make
the job easier at all because on specific dates numerous P-39's were lost
near Iasi.

For example on my records on one specific date 11 P-39's
were lost near Iasi .

If the exact crash site location and the date would be available that
could make the stuff easier but again also under such circumstances
success is not taken for granted

Alex K

Re: VVS P-39 loss list ?
 

Hello Alex K,

I too thought the same, but Mihai asked about a possible list being available and apart from the Tony Wood lists the one I gave a link to was the only other list that I thought may help Mihai with his search.
Other more expert on the specific subject may be more able to advise Mikai but at the time of my post had not at the time offered any response to his request.

Alex

Re: VVS P-39 loss list ?
 

Alex Smart , sure I fully agree ,

Cheers
Alex K

Re: VVS P-39 loss list ?
 

Hello all, small update, new digs were done in the weekend and apparently the registration number appeared which is 31 white with a red outline, does this help in any way to narrow down the exact id of this aircraft ?

Thanks in advance

Re: VVS P-39 loss list ?
 

Hi Mihai,
Afraid too little information to identify this aircraft. Accounting for aircraft losses by tail (side) numbers for this period is usually not carried out. Moreover, they are repeated in different units.
Or it's part of the serial number - but it's too short.
It is necessary to clarify the type of aircraft (modification), the presence of signs of the pilot, the nearest settlements and dates when there were major battles. Then you can narrow your search.
Look for plates numbers. Look for number engine.
Best regards,
Kirill

Re: VVS P-39 loss list ?
 

Gospodin Kirill


Numerous Aviation archelogists from Romania contacted several of my
friends who on their turn contacted me on this P-39 which crashed on Iasi
area in 1944 one out 28 P-39's lost by two Russian Air Regiments on first
Iasi Chisinau Offensive . The main issue is that no specific crash dates nor
complete coordinates are available .

I have info on all those 28 but in order to pin point one out of all without
S/N's ,exact crash location is a very though issue .

Re: VVS P-39 loss list ?
 

The red outline might help to eliminate at least the fighter unit, because I think not all of those units used red outlines for their numbers. This can reduce pretty much the losses and potential planes, based on available unit photographs. Who knows?

Re: VVS P-39 loss list ?
 

Totally true Gabor though from my records and photos of the units involved
on 1st Iasi Kishinew Offensive none had red outline , and if some they did
then would highly unusual and I have no such records or photos to ID with

Re: VVS P-39 loss list ?
 

That's too bad, let's wait for a good dataplate then for proper ID.

Re: VVS P-39 loss list ?
 

Gabor

I agree ,of particular interest to me would be to determine
if this rare fuselage marking was standard with this Avia Reg
or just for a senior pilot. Then I may be able to go through
details and trace the pilot and his Reg

Re: VVS P-39 loss list ?
 

Thank you all for your input, hopefully something more relevant will pop out from the crash site !

Re: VVS P-39 loss list ?
 

Hi Gabor,
On individual aircraft of the 69 GIAP 304 IAD had such a marking - for example:
*http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/9810/...4ca72_orig.jpg
http://ava.org.ru/iap/69g/p39_shikunov_21.jpg
And also possible in 129 GIAP 205 IAD:
http://airaces.narod.ru/all2/karmin4.jpg
But it can not be ruled out that this is an aircraft of any regiment (from 6) two divizions 7 IAK (205 IAD or 304 IAD).

Best regards,
Kirill

Re: VVS P-39 loss list ?
 

Thanks Kirill,
Very similar numbers indeed. Some of them have very well visible red outlines. Let's hope a dataplate will be found to determine its identity. Thanks,
Gabor

Re: VVS P-39 loss list ?
 

In Iasy region operate two fighter division - 9 GIAD (16, 100 and 104 GIAP) and 205 IAD (129 GIAP, 438 IAP, 508 IAP). No one of them used red outlined white board numbers. Red outlined numbers used 304 IAD (21 GIAP, 69 GIAP, 9 IAP), but they stayin' in reserve. I have all of serial numbers lost in Iasy region P-39's. A dataplate with number needed.

Re: VVS P-39 loss list ?
 

Hi Folks,
This seems to be a 'good candidate' for the recovered Airacobra, marked with red outlined white '31' on the fuselage behind the red star. (The number '31' was clearly painted on the squared back fuselage maintenance door at the tail, so it had to be from a unit, which applied their markings on the fuselage, not on the nose! 9 GvIAD units were such.)

According to the combat diary of 5 VA, 9 GvIAD, 104 GvIAP, on June 3, 1944 Gv.Lt. Mikhail Stephanovich Lihovid, flying P-39 #31 has failed to return from the combat mission of 7 Airacobras, flown between 18:20-19:10 (Moscow time). He was involved in a dogfight with 3 Fw 190s. This is the last time in June, 1944, when P-39 #31 of 104 GvIAP saw action.

A P-39, #31 flew combat mission again on July 16, 1944, which - I am sure- was already a new plane, receiving the very same markings. Certainly other nearby groups could loose a P-39 with marking #31, but June 3, 1944 was in the prime time of the dogfights in the Iassy area where this plane was recovered, and Lihovid's plane was white '31' for sure. (Later he was KIA in August, 1944.)
Hope this helps.

Gabor

Re: VVS P-39 loss list ?
 

Gabor thank you very much for your update, one quick question, is the handwritten document available on pamyat-naroda.ru ?

Thank you, Mihai

Re: VVS P-39 loss list ?
 

Yes, now this document is uploaded in there. (ЦАМО, Ф:22249, Оп:0020780сс, Д:0001)
Gabor