possible ANR bf109 late war spoil?
 

The swastika shown in image 4 here is a GI war trophy

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?s...2306027&type=3

and is marked on the reverse "Taken from tail of an ME-
109 Milano, Italy"
Now,the first Allied units entered liberated Milan on April, 27, 1945.
If it is really coming from a messerschmitt (any ideas? dimensions seem right, the background color... not so much), could it belong to one of those ANR fighters that retained the hakenkreuz? Or there were still German 109s around in the Milan area at the end of the war?

Best,

Andrea

Re: possible ANR bf109 late war spoil?
 

More as dubious imo.
1) The ANR Bf109s had their swastikas overpainted with the Italian colours.
2) Late-war Bf 109s mostly had wooden tailfins, this is metal obviously
3) Metal tailfins of the Bf 109 - both the high and the low one had a horizontal dividing line in the area covered by the swastika. This one is in one piece
4) The blueish colour seems more than strange

Re: possible ANR bf109 late war spoil?
 

Hi!

Roland:


Most Me109 tails were metal...even that late-war ones. I have owned many tail swastikas from 1944-1945, and only 1 in 10 were wood.

This specific one depicted is 100% wood (not aluminum)

Is is cut from a tall tail wood Me109 tail

The cam color is perfect...no issues there.


100% German late-war Me109 wood swastika (not ANO)...but still nice!

Mike

Re: possible ANR bf109 late war spoil?
 

By the date of 27 April 1945 there were no German Bf 109s operating in Italy apart from those of NAGr.11 based at Udine - Campoformido, several hundred kilometers from Milan...!

Since the only unit roughly operating in that area was 1° Gruppo Caccia ANR, whose Bf 109s were marked with all-Italian markings on fuselage, I seriously doubt that the source could be that unit.

One possibility is that the piece was recovered in one of Italian factories in Milan area that were known to be working for the Germans (Agusta for example), repairing and reconditionings their planes, and that the tail in question possibly belonges to a fuselage of a Luftwaffe aircraft (or parts of it) still being worked on or left abandoned in some workshop...

Re: possible ANR bf109 late war spoil?
 

Ah yes...but there were many wrecks left about. I suspect it was an abondonded wreck...as opposed to one that was simply left behind by a retreating unit.

Would you not agree?

Mike

Re: possible ANR bf109 late war spoil?
 

Dear All,

Thanks for this very interesting thread - and other threads.
Just one point:
Somewhere, in the world, there are many countries from where it's impossible to link with:

- Facebook
- Tweet
- Youtube video
- All the web address which do includes the word "blog" (for instance: Falkein (Neil) blog and CptFarrel (Anders) blog)
- Without talking about some photos on eBay (It depends on the way they have been loaded and configurated) .. But this I can manage.
- ...

So, please, can you load the picture?? Thank you very much.

Best regards, Franck.

Re: possible ANR bf109 late war spoil?
 

Re: possible ANR bf109 late war spoil?
 

Ach! Many thanks Oberst.

- Should be wise to ask (through Facebook ;)) the owner what are the dimensions.
- The white wall background and the grass make good colour chart for comparison.
- That deep blue looks like the blue we can find on Erla production line late war machines (See LW im Focus and the same picture posted - not long time ago - by Rasmussen in TOCH if I remember well)
BUT!: Did fins included in this painting process?

Regards, Franck.

Re: possible ANR bf109 late war spoil?
 

I wouldn't just agree, I'd ask what evidence there was that "there were many wrecks left about." Bf 109 losses over Northern Italy at the end of the war were not that many because of the relatively small number of aircraft deployed and the severe shortages of fuel.

Re: possible ANR bf109 late war spoil?
 

Veltro´s post is most plausible. As the wooden tails were fabricated by subcontractors those tail units may have been delivered fully painted to the rpair shops in Italy.
Maybe this item was cut out from a delivery of such tails and not from a complete airframe.
Can the rear of the swastika be shown? The glueing of the wooden interior for the main construction would be interesting.
The colour is still puzzling. I know two types of prefab wooden tails:
1) the usual green/gray combination applied with templates, with black/white swastikas
2) the mottled green on RLM76 combination applied with spray guns, with black swastikas

Obviously this must be Type 1. The "gray" colour can be the brighter version of RLM74?