Claim Oblt Dippel 9/JG26 on december 01 1943
 

Hello ,

According the book JG26 War Diary VOL 2 page 185 by Don Caldwell Oblt Dippel claimed a P-47 near Beverlo Belgium. Anuone an idea about the identity of this aircraft ?
Regards
Alain57

Re: Claim Oblt Dippel 9/JG26 on december 01 1943
 

According to https://www.aviationarchaeology.com/...CR_1943Dec.asp
5 P-47 were lost over Europe by 8th AF on 1st December 1943

431201 01276 P-47D-5 42-8607 _ Hq 56FG 8 Ludwig, Vance P KIA BEL Aachen area Merdrop-1km SE/ (De Ster nr Sint Niklaas [BAHA]) _
431201 01277 P-47D-6 42-74631 _ 62FS 56FG 8 Pruden, Harry M Jr KIA BEL Cologne-15mi W Etichove [BAHA] _
431201 01287 P-47D-2 42-22545 _ 357FS 355FG 8 Williamson, Jesse M POW GER Gelsdorf _ _
431201 01432 P-47C-2 41-6211 _ 61FS 56FG 8 Brown, Cleve M Jr POW BEL Beverloo AD/Ghent-12mi E Ritterhude _
431201 01435 P-47D-2 42-8006 _ 358FS 355FG 8 Hull, James C KIA BEL Antwerp area Sterken-nr/Antwerp-1km S &16km W _

Against these losses, in my old Tony Wood files (I had a PC crash recently and lost more recent files) there are 14 claims for P-47 this day:
01.12.43 Ltn. Franz Ruhl: n.b. 4./JG 3 P-47  - 11.27 Reference: JG 3 Lists f. 452
01.12.43 Oblt. Hans-Georg Dippel: 18 ► 9./JG 26 P-47  MJ-2m: 8.000 m. [Beveren/Antwerp] 11.32 Film C. 2031/II Anerk: Nr.111
01.12.43 Uffz. Janke: n.L. 3./JG 3 P-47  ON: 8.000 m. [Eupen: Hohe Venn] 11.37 Film C. 2031/II Anerk: Nr.60
01.12.43 Fw. Hans-Eberhard Blume: 1 ► 4./JG 27 P-47  N.W. Bonn: 7.500 m. 12.05 Film C. 2031/II Anerk: Nr.21
01.12.43 Oblt. Gerhard Sommer: 15 4./JG 11 P-47  PO 9-9 Eifel: 9.000 m. 12.05 Film C. 2031/II Anerk: Nr.68
01.12.43 Fw. Heinz Hanke: 4 ► 3./JG 11 P-47  - 12.17 Reference: JG 1/11 Lists f. 641
01.12.43 Fw. Schneider: 4 6./JG 11 P-47  NH 7: 9.500 m. [S. Oudenaarde] 12.45 Film C. 2031/II Anerk: Nr.15
01.12.43 Ltn. Reden [sic] 6./ZG 26 P-47  W. Lüttich: 4.300 m. [Liège] 12.45 Film C. 2031/II Anerk: Nr.54
01.12.43 Major Egon Mayer: 85 ► Stab/JG 2 P-47  O -OK: 7.500 m. [Gembloux-Huy area] 12.50 Film C. 2031/II Anerk: Nr.113
01.12.43 Major Egon Mayer: 86 ► Stab/JG 2 P-47  OL-OK: 7.500 m. [Liège area] 12.50 Film C. 2031/II Anerk: Nr.114
01.12.43 Major Egon Mayer: 87 ► Stab/JG 2 P-47  OK: 7.000 m. [Gembloux area] 12.53 Film C. 2031/II Anerk: Nr.115
01.12.43 Major Egon Mayer: 88 ► Stab/JG 2 P-47  NK: 7.000 m. [Leuven area] 12.53 Film C. 2031/II Anerk: ASM
01.12.43 Oblt. Rudolf Leuschel 8./JG 26 P-47  bei Ghent: 6.000 m. 13.00 Film C. 2031/II Anerk: Nr.11
01.12.43 Fw. Bernhard Kunze: 8 1./JG 1 P-47  - - Reference: JG 1/11 Lists f. 641

I have not the corresponding recent books by Prien and co to check and probably correct the above German claims, but it is probable that for each US losses several claims were made.

Re: Claim Oblt Dippel 9/JG26 on december 01 1943
 

Heelo ,
Thanks for the help.
Alain57

Re: Claim Oblt Dippel 9/JG26 on december 01 1943
 

I have seen one reference (http://p-47.database.pagesperso-oran...se/42-8xxx.htm) state that Dippel's victim was 42-8006/YF-A of 358th FS, 355th FG, Lt. James C Hull KIA. I am not sure that I agree fully 100% with that one as he is known to have come down near Stekene, as already mentioned and that's a fair way from Beverlo.

It was said by Caldwell to be one of the 56th FG losses.

Hard to know for certain...

Re: Claim Oblt Dippel 9/JG26 on december 01 1943
 

Hello

Here's what I have stored:

41-6211 (56°FG) crashed "Bavegen" (the claim of Leuschel who claim his P-47 S.E Ghent)
42-74631 (56°FG) crashed "Etilkove" (the claim of Schneider who claim his P-47 S.Oudenaarde)
42-8607 (56°FG) crashed "Wasseiges" (the claim of Mayer who claim 4 !!! P-47 Gembloux/Liege)
42-22545 (355°FG) "Gelsdorf" (the claim of Sommer and (?) Blume)

42-8006 (355°FG) crashed "Sterken" S.Eindhoven:about 30Km north Beverlo (the claim of Dippel who claim his P-47 Beverlo)

I have also 3 other P-47 damaged (56°,78°,353°FG and crashed in England (one damaged Beyond repair) but I have no details on the identity of these P-47

Michel

Re: Claim Oblt Dippel 9/JG26 on december 01 1943
 

Goodmorning,

Thank you very much for your reply , just a few little remarks

41-6211 Bavegem ( postalcode 9520 ) Province East Flanders
42-74631 Etikhove ( postalcode 9680 ) Province East Flanders
42-8607 Merdorp-Ambresin ( postalcode 4280 ) Province Liége
42-8006 The hamlet Sterreken , 1 km south of the town of St-Niklaas postalcode 9100 ( Province East Flanders )

Greetings
Alain57

Re: Claim Oblt Dippel 9/JG26 on december 01 1943
 

Lazy bums!
Primary evidence suggests to return to the drawing board.
Williamson 11:35
https://catalog.archives.gov/id/90903534?objectPage=6
Hull 12:00
https://catalog.archives.gov/id/90905794?objectPage=5
Ludwig 12:15
https://catalog.archives.gov/id/90903459?objectPage=4
Brown 12:40
https://catalog.archives.gov/id/90905761?objectPage=12
Pruden 13:10
https://catalog.archives.gov/id/90903465?objectPage=3

Re: Claim Oblt Dippel 9/JG26 on december 01 1943
 

Well

There is a problem that I can't explain regarding Brown
"His" P-47 is given as 41-6211 and no 42-6211 crashed in Bavegem (S.E.Ghent)

Regarding Hull (P-47 42-8006),we should know if it is Beveren (Woods,Caldwell) or Beverlo (Matthews)...it's not the same thing!

It's very confusing and I have the impression that are errors,confusion everywhere.

Michel

Re: Claim Oblt Dippel 9/JG26 on december 01 1943
 

Hello Michel,

I do not know if this is helpful. The original claim is found in RL 5/1452 p. 0443 right side #10. The location is not named but the coordinates are "M.J. 2M" Hopefully you or a colleague can interpret this.

Jim

Re: Claim Oblt Dippel 9/JG26 on december 01 1943
 

Almost unreadable "Sterken" in the KU report for Hull in 42-8006 to be read as Stekene, which is in the Beveren/St. Niklaas area just west of Antwerp.

Leendert