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Marc-André Haldimann 11th March 2013 22:07

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
Hi floks,

I just found today two pictures of a Bf 109 G-6 (?) W.Nr. unknown "Rote 21" emerging from lake Ammer (Ammersee), near the locality of Buch. The date of its ditching is unknown, as the unit which is only surmized as being an 2./EJG or a 2./JG 1xx fighter school unit.

Any indication about unit and date of ditching would be great; if W.Nr. available, that would be magic!

Thanks in advance

Nick Beale 11th March 2013 23:52

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source

Originally Posted by Marc-André Haldimann (Post 163548) W.Nr. 202 113

This said, no way to be 100% sure... And thanks, Nick, for the lead about the absence/presence of MG 131's. I wasn't aware of that.


My feeling on 202113 is that it would probably have been "red 7", rather than green. When Tom Hitchcock first published that photo and interpreted the colour, he hadn't made the connection with the QMG loss report, so didn't have a unit for the machine. For the record: 13.02.45, 2./NAG 13, Bf 109 G-6 W.Nr. 202113: Bruchlandung inf. Motorstörung, 40%.

When it flew Fw 190s in the south of France (August 1944), 2./NAG 13 used black numbers with a red outline. It returned to action in early October with Bf 109s and, if they dropped the previous practice, I'd see a change to red number/white outline as more likely than green/white outline.

I picked up on the reduced armament from reports of aircraft accepted by France-based units from the Guyancourt workshops. Examples here and here. It didn't apply in every case though.

Marc-André Haldimann 12th March 2013 00:03

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
Your insight is much appreciated, Nick! Especially glad about W.Nr. 202113's correct tactical number color.


Mack_jackson 18th March 2013 13:27

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source

Originally Posted by DeMePhi (Post 134921)
Interesting picture. Plane seems to have some kind of tailband. JG 300 red band?

Should be a great model then: black plane, red tailband and yellow cowl...

Some rambling while enjoying my lunch...

Best regards,


Yes it is very interesting picture..! i like this photography, i think its body color is blue, and white, tail-band's color is black and cowl's color is cyan. I think it is 1923's photo maybe.

ouidjat 22nd March 2013 08:37

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
Hi Marc and Guys,

Marc I cannot agree with (seller's) caption you put with the three following pictures:

I./JG 26 left Orel in June and was already equiped with Fw190.
Kuban is like a province not a place.
I did write a comment under one of the pictures. Stab. II./JG 52 suits me better.
I'd like comments please.

Cheers, Franck.

Marc-André Haldimann 22nd March 2013 12:56

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
Hi Franck, I tentatively follow you; I won't have access to my library before two weeks, I'll check out afterwards.

Thanks for your always appreciated input

Marc-André Haldimann 22nd March 2013 21:44

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
A brilliant new find thanks to Peter over in LEMB, post no 71:
This is a II./JG52 Bf109K-4 in the typical WNr.332000-335241 block Mtt camouflage pattern. Amazing, truly amazing!

The only other known machine with the black tulip motive on the nose so far is Bf109K-4 WNr.332529 "KleineSchwarze4", ?/JG 52, Deutsch Brod, published in Poruba and Mol 2000, p.76.

His find shows a different machine as WNr.332529, as evidenced by the camouflage pattern with the RLM81/RLM82/RLM76 low demarcation line on the fuselage.


RolandF 23rd March 2013 16:17

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
Not to mention the Fahrwerksrestabdeckung of the K-4.
Rarely seen so clear and from such an angle.
Great find.
Any idea about the unit? Staff JG 52? Staff II./JG 52?



Marc-André Haldimann 23rd March 2013 19:57

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
Good question Roland,

Can't tell; hopefully somebody more knowledgeable will give us the good lead... Still amazed as how such unique pictures keep surfacing...

All the best

unikum 25th March 2013 13:33

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source

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