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-   -   Late war Bf 109 pictures source (http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=27108)

Marc-André Haldimann 5th October 2011 00:38

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 
Schönen Dank Oberst!

Too late to fish it out again tonight; will check it tomorrow... with fresh eyes! One thing I'm sure though: the b/w and color profiles made in 2004 do show only one color...

Cheers
Marc

veltro 5th October 2011 01:49

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 
Just one word of precisation: my reply was done with reference to the Bf 109G-10 landed in Sweden linked by Oberst and, more generally, to the Erla G-10s in apparent "normal" camouflage.

I actually have a sort of "agnostic" position concerning the all-dark G-10s of the 150.xxx batch. AFAIK, they could be in whatever combination of "dark" colors (excluding RLM 83 of course, and certainly not 74/75!) possible, but even then, no certainty is at hand.

Oberst 5th October 2011 02:24

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 
Thanks for the clarification Ferdinando. In regards to the dark colours G-10s of the 150.xxx batch, any chance they were Italian colours?

Pilot 5th October 2011 06:39

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 
Single color could be war rush but also.... do you remember a decades repeated statements of single coat RLM70 machines until was realized that this was caused by the nature of film. Maybe situation here. RLM81 and 82 are in most cases so dark so combination of this two could cause problem. In other hands we have some Fw190 with single top color on the fuselage top.

As I know RLM74 was discarded for use in 1944 and replaced by camouflage pattern 75/82. Is there any proof for RLM83 color? Bitter problem is the fact that some preserved pieces show wide variations in green colors.

Protection color could be also problem as well there was grey green (by mistake long time called RLM84) and very dark color, one researcher from Czechs Republic state it is RLM66 and it is possible as well there is several images of the rudder of late production Bf109 with very dark horizontal rudder and one color image show very dark color, very possible RLM66. So this colors could be some of external colors. RLM66 is used for cockpit frames and in some cases I have seen that the same or almost the same hue of color was extending on rest of airframe.

No need to say what we all know- not possible to determine from black and white image what color is on it.

veltro 5th October 2011 08:18

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Oberst (Post 135258)
Thanks for the clarification Ferdinando. In regards to the dark colours G-10s of the 150.xxx batch, any chance they were Italian colours?

To put it simply, no.

Marc-André Haldimann 5th October 2011 09:16

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 
Thanks Ferdinando for your swift answer.

Srecko, I remember well this overall RLM 70 camouflage theory; I can follow you on that point.

For the sake of completeness here are the two usable pics of Bf 109 G-10 W.Nr. 152 xxx "Gelbe 11" found at Deutsch Brod:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...in/photostream
http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...7625208099917/

Though I can see a painted over "7" showing under the "Gelbe 11", I cannot make out any contrast in the dark tonality of its seemingly monochrome camouflage... Note the shiny aspect of the paint on the surviving skins.

IMHO, W.Nr. 152 3x3 is emblematic for the camouflage of those machines: one overall RLM XX color camouflage with unpainted wings undersurfaces. Both are obvious for this machine, but also on "Gelbe 11"...

Rasmussen, any insight into which RLM color ERLA camouflaged its G-10 batches?

Thanks in advance
Marc

Pilot 5th October 2011 09:25

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 
Interesting image Marc. It s strange what the service use can do with single top coat paintwork, bleaching from sun, wash from hand prints, fuels and oil, heat from engine... and so on, can make impressions of multi color camouflage. So even if we have single coat coat it could look as the more coat is on.

It is nice to continue in this way, maybe some findings could be find. I will search my hard drive, I think that I have download image of late war Bf109 with single top coat (but due to mess in files I can not promise anything).

Cheers :)

Marc-André Haldimann 5th October 2011 09:29

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 
I have the same issue, Srecko!

Am particularly looking for the b/w picture of the Grafenwöhr G-10... No chance so far.

Any of you folks do have it to share with us again?

Thanks
Marc

Pilot 5th October 2011 10:17

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 
Marc- contact me on email if this is not problem please :)

veltro 5th October 2011 11:30

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc-André Haldimann (Post 135270)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...7625208099917/

Though I can see a painted over "7" showing under the "Gelbe 11", I cannot make out any contrast in the dark tonality of its seemingly monochrome camouflage... Note the shiny aspect of the paint on the surviving skins.

FWIW, it looks as if there is a diagonal hue demarcation between the tail and the fuselage Balkenkreuz...


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