Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum

Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum (http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/index.php)
-   Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces (http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/forumdisplay.php?f=8)
-   -   Late war Bf 109 pictures source (http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=27108)

Cpt_Farrel 28th September 2013 10:33

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 
While I'm not convinced in either way on JG6 bands I would say that any evidence for or against any theory would need to stem from within the same Gruppe, I can hardly think of any Geschwader that had consistent markings throughout all its gruppen. From the battle of Britain to the end of the war, I.D. colors and numerals seems to have been interpreted and applied at Gruppe level.

/Anders

Marc-André Haldimann 28th September 2013 15:18

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by John Manrho (Post 172883)
In my Bodenplatte book you will find Abendroth's K-4 of III./JG 77 with white-green band (page 257).

Cheers,

John

John,

Many thanks for your valued input! After browsing through the 143 pictures available (thanks for Abendroth's W.Nr. 330 204!), I tend to concur with you: it is next to impossible to decide between JG 6 and JG 77 on b/w pics without the input of CEA reports... It would be fantastic to have the latter online. Nick could this be a possibility?

Cheers
Marc

Marc-André Haldimann 28th September 2013 15:20

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cpt_Farrel (Post 172920)
While I'm not convinced in either way on JG6 bands I would say that any evidence for or against any theory would need to stem from within the same Gruppe, I can hardly think of any Geschwader that had consistent markings throughout all its gruppen. From the battle of Britain to the end of the war, I.D. colors and numerals seems to have been interpreted and applied at Gruppe level.

/Anders

Hej Anders,

On my side, I would see two JG's with a very constant way of applying RV markings as a whole: JG 27 and JG 53. Not sure if JG 4 and JG 300 were that thorough for all their Staffeln, but this could be another possibility...

Cheers
Marc

Nick Beale 28th September 2013 16:03

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc-André Haldimann (Post 172940)
It would be fantastic to have the latter online. Nick could this be a possibility?

Cheers
Marc

Not from me, I don't have images or comprehensive notes of the reports in question. Sorry.

Cpt_Farrel 28th September 2013 16:17

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 
JG53 is a good example, but JG27 less so imo as the width of the band varied between Gruppen. II./JG27 only used a band that covered one frame of the fuselage for example. Maybe I wasn't clear in my post but I meant not only whether a Gruppe applied bands or not, but also how wide and other variations. JG2 would be a better example than JG27 as the application of fuselagebands were quite constant on their Fw190D-9's.

/Anders

ouidjat 28th September 2013 18:32

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc-André Haldimann (Post 172941)
Hej Anders,

On my side, I would see two JG's with a very constant way of applying RV markings as a whole: JG 27 and JG 53. Not sure if JG 4 and JG 300 were that thorough for all their Staffeln, but this could be another possibility...

Cheers
Marc

Hi Marc,

Yes, I agree with you though there is not enough photos available for the moment.
(Fw 190 and Bf 109 situation seems quite different whatever; unless you want to open a Fw 190 collection ? :))

I concur with Anders too; his idea is quite pretty good to trace the RV band Inside one unit...

Last - but not the least: We cannot forget JG 301...
We already found some (only one?) Bf 109 with INVERSED band order (Yellow-Red instead of Red-Yellow - or the contrary; don't remember) and this was discussed in LEMB, times ago. I.e. exactly the situation described by Kees. And no one said it was "hairy" if I do remember well.

Regards, Franck.

Marc-André Haldimann 29th September 2013 15:49

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 
Thanks Franck for your thoughts!

That would be great if one could open up a Fw 190 picture resource DB... We would then have a global insight in RV bands;-))

Beyond that, I have no issues with Kees's paper, Franck; he did just the right thing: to bring together CEA Reports and pics is a sure way to have a solid base for discussing RV Bands. JG 6 and JG 77 both had them and they often can't be distinguished because of the inherent limits of b/w photography.
To have an open mind and methodic approach is a THE way for knowledge building: those incredible Fels am Wagram shots did just that. Seeing them opens a new question: beyond JG 2, JG 4, JG 6 and JG 300, we have to take into account JG 51 even if no known pics existed so far...

Back to the documents, and we'll go beyond
Marc

Marc-André Haldimann 29th September 2013 15:54

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 
@Nick

Thanks for your answer; maybe someone who has them could team up with you in order to have them on www.ghostbombers.com? That would be great news!

@ Anders

Good point, Anders! An other lead to follow...

Thanks!
Marc

Nick Beale 29th September 2013 16:15

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc-André Haldimann (Post 172985)
@Nick

Thanks for your answer; maybe someone who has them could team up with you in order to have them on www.ghostbombers.com? That would be great news!
Marc

Sorry, busy with other projects now but Peter Evans has a section on LEMB where people upload documents, so if anyone has these CEA reports, that would be a good place to share them.

Marc-André Haldimann 30th September 2013 16:43

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick Beale (Post 172987)
Sorry, busy with other projects now but Peter Evans has a section on LEMB where people upload documents, so if anyone has these CEA reports, that would be a good place to share them.

All the best for your projects! Looking forward to read them:-))

Marc


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 11:26.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2018, 12oclockhigh.net