Losses Supply Stalingrad
 

Hi all.

I have nearly 450 losses witg date for the supply of the 6th. Ary of Stalingard.
For these looses , I can't read the dates in the GQM. This part of the DVD is more then poor, its blck and not redable.
Anybody a Better copy? Help Possible?

Thasnk in advance

Rüdiger

7./ KG 4He 11171177./ KG 55He 11181818./ KG 4He 11178868./ KG 55He 1114197II./ KGzbV. 1Ju 52/ 3m3319KGrzbV. 5He 1113315KGrzbV. 5He 1113649KGrzbV. 20He 1113701KGrzbV. 22Ju 86 73KGrzbV. 23He 1114256KGrzbV. 23He 1114010KGrzbV. 23He 1117099KGrzbV. 50Ju 52/ 3m6415KGrzbV. 50Ju 52/ 3m7211I./ KGrzbV. 172Ju 52/ 3m7657I./ KGrzbV. 172Ju 52/ 3m10 096KGrzbV. 500Ju 52/ 3m5606KGrzbV. 500Ju 52/ 3m6828KGrzbV. 500Ju 52/ 3m3183KGrzbv. 5He 1113337KGrzbv. 5He 1113577KGrzbv. 5He 1113853KGrzbV. 102Ju 52/ 3m5340KGrzbV. 172Ju 52/ 3m6063KGrzbV. 172Ju 52/ 3m6426KGrzbV. 172Ju 52/ 3m6841KGrzbv. 5He 1116917KGrzbV. 102Ju 52/ 3m7197KGrzbV. 50Ju 52/ 3m7495KGrzbV. 500Ju 52/ 3m7633KGrzbV. 172Ju 52/ 3m7662KGrzbV. 172Ju 52/ 3m10 026Lw. Stab 106Bü 1316021

Re: Losses Supply Stalingrad
 

Soorry

same Theme, now some better

7./ KG 4 He 111 7117
7./ KG 55 He 111 8181
8./ KG 4 He 111 7886
8./ KG 55 He 111 4197
II./ KGzbV 1 Ju 52/ 3m 3319
KGrzbV 5 He 111 3315
KGrzbV 5 He 111 3649
KGrzbV 20 He 111 3701
KGrzbV 22 Ju 86 73
KGrzbV 23 He 111 4256
KGrzbV 23 He 111 4010
KGrzbV 23 HE 111 7099
KGrzbV 50 Ju 52/ 3m 6415
KGrzbV 50 Ju 52/ 3m 7211
I./ KGrzbV 172 Ju 52/ 3m 7657
I./ KGrzbV 172 Ju 52/ 3m 10 096
KGrzbV 500 Ju 52/ 3m 5606
KGrzbV 500 Ju 52/ 3m 6828
KGrzbV 500 Ju 52/ 3m 3183
KGrzbV 5 He 111 3337
KGrzbV 5 He 111 3577
KGrzbV 5 He 111 3853
KGrzbV 102 Ju 52/ 3m 5340
KGrzbV 172 Ju 52/ 3m 6063
KGrzbV 172 Ju 52/ 3m 6426
KGrzbV 172 Ju 52/ 3m 6841
KGrzbV 5 He 111 6917
KGrzbV 102 Ju 52/ 3m 7197
KGrzbV 50 Ju 52/ 3m 7495
KGrzbV 500 Ju 52/ 3m 7633
KGrzbV 172 Ju 52/ 3m 7662
KGrzbV 172 Ju 52/ 3m 10 026


Thanks in advance

Regards Rüdiger

Re: Losses Supply Stalingrad
 

Hi Rudiger,

I made a list of Stalingrad supply flight losses from the GQM a couple of years ago and had the same problem. The Correction sheets in GQM did clarify some dates and crew names, as I recall a crewman named as being lost on one flight is later corrected as not being on that aircraft. My list has been put away somewhere and I cannot find it at present.
One note I have have another list is He111 7/KG4 7117 - hit a bomb crater landing at Gumrak 0n 17th Jan. crew of Ltn. Spannbauer safe, flown out on the 18th.Jan by a KG55 crew,

Regards

Brian Bines

Re: Losses Supply Stalingrad
 

1943-01-18 - 7./ KG 4 He 111 7117
1943-01-30 - 7./ KG 55 He 111 8181
1943-01-18 - 8./ KG 4 He 111 7886
8./ KG 55 He 111 4197 Wrong WNr. This was destroyed already 1941 in Egypt.
1943-01-19 - II./ KGzbV 1 Ju 52/ 3m 3319
1943-01-10 - KGrzbV 5 He 111 3315
1943-01-14 - KGrzbV 5 He 111 3649
KGrzbV 20 He 111 3701. Probably you mean 3781, which was destroyed 1942-12-07.
1943-01-10 - KGrzbV 22 Ju 86 73
KGrzbV 23 He 111 4256 Wrong WNr. This was destroyed 1943-05-13. Probably you mean 4 258, which was destroyed 1943-01-30.
1943-01-30 - KGrzbV 23 He 111 4010
1943-01-30 - KGrzbV 23 HE 111 7099
1943-01-15 - KGrzbV 50 Ju 52/ 3m 6415
1943-01-04 - KGrzbV 50 Ju 52/ 3m 7211. This was from 1./KGr.z.b.V. 105.
1943-01-17 - I./ KGrzbV 172 Ju 52/ 3m 7657. This was from 1./KG.z.b.V. 172.
I./ KGrzbV 172 Ju 52/ 3m 10 096. Cannot identify. Possibly you mean 10036, which was destroyed 1943-01-15.
1943-01-16 - KGrzbV 500 Ju 52/ 3m 5606
KGrzbV 500 Ju 52/ 3m 6828. Wrong WNr. This was destroyed 1941-12-17 in Afrika. Possibly you mean 6628, which was destroyed 1943-01-16.
1943-02-06 - KGrzbV 500 Ju 52/ 3m 3183
1943-01-20 - KGrzbV 5 He 111 3337
1943-01-18 - KGrzbV 5 He 111 3577
KGrzbV 5 He 111 3853. Wrong WNr. Possibly you mean 3863, Which was damaged 1943-01-10.
1943-01-17 - KGrzbV 102 Ju 52/ 3m 5340
KGrzbV 172 Ju 52/ 3m 6063, Wrong WNr. This was destroyed 1942-02-01. Possibly you mean 6053, which was damaged 1941-10-17.
1943-01-17 - KGrzbV 172 Ju 52/ 3m 6426. This was from KG.z.b.V. 172.
1943-01-17 - KGrzbV 172 Ju 52/ 3m 6841. This was from KG.z.b.V. 172.
1943-01-18 - KGrzbV 5 He 111 6917
1943-01-19 - KGrzbV 102 Ju 52/ 3m 7197
1943-01-17 - KGrzbV 50 Ju 52/ 3m 7495
1943-01-14 - KGrzbV 500 Ju 52/ 3m 7633
1943-01-17 - KGrzbV 172 Ju 52/ 3m 7662. This was from KG.z.b.V. 172.
1943-01-17 - KGrzbV 172 Ju 52/ 3m 10 026. This was from KG.z.b.V. 172.

Matti

Re: Losses Supply Stalingrad
 

Thousand thanks Brian and Matti,

the wrong Wnr. re surely ok.
5=3 and 8=6 its an horror

Rüdiger

Re: Losses Supply Stalingrad
 

Does that include the planes destroyed on the ground at Tatsinskaya?

All the best

Andreas

Re: Losses Supply Stalingrad
 

Hi Andreas,

I have 462 Losses, also these one, which are lost or damaged by bombing.
I hope thats all, but I don't know.
Some authors mean, it would be thirty more.

Rüdiger

Re: Losses Supply Stalingrad
 

Rudiger and Andreas - Having found the list of Stalingrad airlift losses I compliled some time ago I had a total of 494 aicraft lost/damaged. However this includes aircraft from the Bomber units some of which could have been on either a bombing or a supply mission. Difficulty reading of the GQM reports meant some crash locations given were either unreadable or not traced on current maps so I could not be certain if all were lost on supply flights. As regards the Tatsinskaya losses for the 24th. Dec. I had two Transports colliding in the air over the airfield, two crashing on the airfield, one fell into enemy hands, ten lost in the attack, twelve lost to enemy tanks infantry or bombing and two as destroyed by own troops. In addition two Kl 35s of KGr z.b.V 50 are shown as falling into enemy hands. From the start of the airlift some 15 aircraft had been damaged around the airfield which if still there on the 24th Dec. may have been included in the reported Soviet claim of 70 Transports? destroyed.
I cannot be a 100% certain of the accuracy of the above due to the quality of the GQM records I have , so please consider these as a guidance, I hope they are of some help,

Regards

Brian Bines

Re: Losses Supply Stalingrad
 

I believe losses during airlift operation were underestimated due to total mess happening. Some planes were not reported. Some were reported as damaged to various degrees and abandoned without recording the loss info. Just to illustrate, four Ju-87s of 4 /StG77 were filled as "von eigene truppe gesprengt" and one Ju-86 of K.Gr.z.b.V.22 as "feindbeschuss" at Kotelnikovo airfield on December 27, during the retreat. All four Ju-87s: S2+BB, S2+GM, S2+HN, DJ+HJ plus remnants of Ju-86 w.n. 4016 BJ+CG were found by Soviets. In addition to this wrecks of Fw-189s C2+JP, T1+MK, H1+BL, VZ+2I, C2+??, Ju-52 C6+C9, ashes of one Hs-126, two Fi-156s and one unidentified Romanian plane were found.

Besides, there were some cases of dates confusion in GQ relating to transport planes losses, e.g. w.n. 5473 from K.Gr.z.b.V.700 was lost on Noember 28, instead of November 29, as reported.

Re: Losses Supply Stalingrad
 

Thanks both of you.

All the best

Andreas