Hans-Joachim Marseille
 

Read some history about this decorated Luftwaffe "ace". Believe he was awarded the Knights Cross (Ritter Kreuz) with Oak Leaves by Goering, not sure if he later received the swords and diamonds to that most high honour. The story I heard was that Hans was a very accomplished pianist, and while at Karinhall, receiving his KC from Goering, with Hitler and other Nazi leaders, including Josef Goebbels and his wife Magda in the audience, he played: Bach, Mozart, Chopin and Wagner for a solid hour, w/o sheet music.

During the intermission, Magda Goebbels asked him if he knew any American jazz forms- Being the cultured gent that he was, he played some Gershwin and even some Scott Joplin, which annoyed Hitler, who finally command Hans to "Schuss mit dem Juden musik"-- and Magda laughed at this.

Wonder if that event might have delayed Hans from later receiving the swords to his RC?? Any truth to this story?? I am a "newbie" here, I carefully read the rules and regs, I hope this inquiry will not offend anyone.

Hans-Joachim Marseille
 

Hi Eric

Welcome to the forum! In my humble opinion this is the best place to find detailed information on the Luftwaffe as a high number of very well-regarded researchers and authors post here and are extremely helpful. It does appear that Marseille was a pianist but just how good was he I have no idea. Likewise, I have never heard the story you related but perhaps someone else has and can comment on whether it happened or not. I can tell you that he did receive the Schwertern on 18 June 1942 (Nr. 12) and the Brillanten on 3 September 1942 (Nr. 4). I hope this helps!

Horrido!

Leo

Re: Hans-Joachim Marseille
 

Danke-- I thought he received both the swords and diamonds later, after this "incident at Karinhall. Possible that he declined any requests for American influenced piano tunes and confined his "recital" to renditions of German, Austria and Polish composers. Hitler was well known to have favored Rickard Wagner's compositions and operas-- But I am sure he might have also appreciated Beethoven and Bach, if not Chopin and Lizst. Who can say??

In the novel "The Eagle Has Landed" (Der Adler gelandet Ist)-- written in the 1970's as a great fictional account of a attempt to kidnap British Prime Minister Churchill while at one of his retreats during WW11 from 10 Downing St. in London, a Luftwaffe pilot is recruited to fly in a special ops. unit (Fallschirmjager) similar to scope as Otto Scorzensky (sic)and his Kommando team that rescued Mussolini from captivity in a mountain redoubt in 1943.

Part of that story details the pilot being denied his Knight's Cross at Karinhall by Goering, apparently the pilot, a survivor of the Battle of Britain, was outspoken to Hermann( Fettig Bubi) or "Fat Boy"--Goering about the better aerodynamics in the air of the Supermarine Spitfires as opposed to the ME-109's, which he flew.

The book is great fiction indeed, many bits of undercover espionage and black ops. are "in play"-- But as I know little about Goering's temper or outlook on outspoken Luftwaffe pilots (Adolf Galland comes to mind) I wonder if you could give me more insight into such a scenario. Fact or fiction? And the same applies to the story I related about the piano concert at Karinhall. Eric

Re: Hans-Joachim Marseille
 

Hi Eric,

Goering's nickname in the Luftwaffe was 'der Dicke', roughly translated to 'the big one'. Regarding the ME vs. Spitfire comments, sounds like this is based on Galland's comments during the Battle about wanting a squadron of Spits.

Re: Hans-Joachim Marseille
 

Whatever the truth of this story, is there anything in the dates of his awards to suggest a delay? Compare him with other day fighter winners of the same awards:

Marseille: RK 22 Feb 42, EL 6 June 42, S 18 June 42, Br 3 Sep 42 (=6½ months)
Graf: RK 24 Jan 42, EL 17 May 32, S 19 May 42, Br 16 Sep 42 (=8½ months)
Hartmann: RK 29 Oct 43, EL 2 Mar 44, S 2 July 44, Br 25 Aug 44 (=10 months)
Gollob: RK 18 Sep 41, EL 26 Oct 41, S 23 June 42, Br 30 Aug 42 (=11½ months)
Nowotny: RK 4 Sep 42, EL 4 Sep 43, S 22 Sep 43,Br 19 Oct 43 (=13 months)
Mölders: RK 29 May 40, EL 21 Sep 40, S 22 June 41, Br 15 July 41 (=13½ months)
Galland: RK 29 July 40, EL 24 Sep 40, S 21 June 41, Br 28 Jan 42 (=18 months)

On the face of it, that doesn't look like official disfavour.

(Dates from Ernst Obermaier: Die Ritterkreuzträger der Luftwaffe, Band 1).

Re: Hans-Joachim Marseille
 

Many thanks for the clarification, and your point is very well taken. On viewing the award dates for the swords and later the diamonds, and looking at Hans-J-Marseille's outstanding flight record, it would not seem that Hans was on "Herr Dicke's scheise-rekord- Eric.

On another phase of the decorated Luftwaffe pilots- can you shed some insight into Galland's status- apparently he was outspoken and not shy about voicing an opinion when asked for his. Eric.

Re: Hans-Joachim Marseille
 

Quality post.

Thanks to all you replied. I was a bit surprised to read that Hptm. Hans-Joachim M went from the basic RitterKreuz to the Oak Leaves, Swords and then Diamonds in 6 &1/2 months, whereas Adolph Galland achieved this status in aprox. 18 months-- granted, different Staffels and TO's from 1940 to 1942, from Marseille to comparison with Galland.

Could anyone shed some insight into this, as I am a bit "out of the loop' as to how the Luftwaffe recorded and confirmed the kills of its pilots.?? Eric

Very interesting to see the time frame detailed for the RitterKreuz initially (I am of the belief that it is, more formally, the Knights Cross order of the Iron Cross)- is this correct? Then to the various additional awards, the Oak Leaves, The Swords and finally, The Diamonds.

Raises another question, if I may. In WW1, when aviation and aircraft combat first evolved, what was the highest award a German Ace could achieve? Was it the "Blue Max"?? If so, was that award also presented in WW11?

Re: Hans-Joachim Marseille
 

There is masses online about medals and awards. Try googling "Pour le Mérite" for information on the Blue Max and "Ritterkreuz" for the Knight's cross.

Re: Hans-Joachim Marseille
 

Thank you Nick. I shall do that. "Pour Le Merite" might indicate a medal with French origins. We shall see.to follow up-- besides the E-Bay ads for replicas, I did find some history- apparently the name was in French, as that was the "international language of diplomacy" back then. There was also some conversation about this award being named after WW1 German Ace Max Immelmann-- Der Blauren Max-- but the jury might still be out on that. Again, many thanks for your insight.. Eric