Re: 5th BG losses ?
 

In reguard to MACR 800. It would seem that the report is not very accurate.
The a/c involved was an LB-30, serial number AL589.
There were six crew and six passengers on board.
From the copy of a telegram to the pilots widow quote -
" He chose the most dangerous mission". Then later in a report for decoration of a posthumous Medal, "In the early part of June 1942, he anticipated an attempted Japanese raid on Midway Island and prepared a heavy bombardment task force to participate in the repulse of the raid and ultimate marked defeat of the Japanese attacking forces. In the final phase of this battle he personally took command of a flight on an attack mission of an extremely dangerous nature, and in the highest traditions of the service elected to execute the mission rather than detail it to a subordinate. This gallant officer and his entire crew, all of whome volunteered to participate in the mission with full knowledge of the nature thereof, were lost at sea".
This is at odds with the a/c being a transport a/c with passengers aboard.
It continues -
"Command pilot of a heavy bombardment aeroplane, participated in a night bombing mission against Wake Island, 6-7 June 1942, which demanded of its participants the highest degree of courage and airmanship".
Further -
" One of five B24's which were to have assembled at Midway Island for the purpose of flying to the Wake Island Area on a combat mission against the Japanese fleet.
Only three of the five planes succeeded in assembling and the three planes - took off in the general direction of Wake Island.
The take off was accomplished in the night time under orders for radio silence.
When the three planes were a short distance away from Midway Island (AL589) lost altitude and disappeared.
Officers of the other two planes were of the opinion that(AL589) "had spun into the water".
Findings of death date was given as 7 June 1943.

Was this LB-30 equipt with a dorsal turret ? Which would suggest that it was still possibly able to have had a bomb bay and was not fully converted to transport version ?
If this a/c was a transport I find it very odd that it was supposed to have been on a bombing mission. Especially whilst carrying passengers ?
My opinion is that there were five a/c due to take part in a transport mission and as two failed to get airborne those two crews were quickly transfered to two of the remaining three. Perhaps they were being transported from one Island base to another airbase to participate in a planned mission from the second base, hence these twelve airmen being in AL589 ?

Does anyone have details of crews and serial numbers of the other four a/c ???

Your thoughts please.

Alex

Re: 5th BG losses ?
 

MACR 15147
Was for the loss of 42-73469

Re: 5th BG losses ?
 

Hello Frank,
I think this could be the complete list ?
MACR Group Squadron Aircraft Type Serial Year Serial Sequence Loss Date

85 5th Bomb Group 72nd Bomb Squadron B-24D 42 40250 6/16/1943
87 5th Bomb Group 23rd Bomb Squadron B-17E 41-9153 7/19/1943
182 5th Bomb Group 23rd Bomb Squadron B-17E 41 9128 7/27/1943
397 5th Bomb Group 31st Bomb Squadron B-24F 42 40647 7/28/1943
725 5th Bomb Group 23rd Bomb Squadron B-24D 42 72794 10/1/1943
799 5th Bomb Group 31st Bomb Squadron B-17E 41 2525 6/10/1943
800 5th Bomb Group 31st Bomb Squadron LB-30 AL589 6/7/1942
801 5th Bomb Group 72nd Bomb Squadron B-17E 41 9118 10/4/1942
803 5th Bomb Group 72nd Bomb Squadron B-24D 42 40210 10/10/1943
804 5th Bomb Group 394th Bomb Squadron B-24D 42 40653 9/28/1943
1176 5th Bomb Group 72nd Bomb Squadron B-24D 42 41155 11/3/1943
1253 5th Bomb Group 31st Bomb Squadron B-24D 42 40636 12/4/1943
1620 5th Bomb Group Headquarters B-24D 41 24186 12/30/1943
3678 5th Bomb Group 394th Bomb Squadron B-24J 42-73220 3/30/1944
3679 5th Bomb Group ? Bomb Squadron B-24J 4Group 42 4/2/1944
3680 5th Bomb Group ? Bomb Squadron B-24J 42-73150 4/2/1944
5083 5th Bomb Group 72nd Bomb Squadron B-24J-110 42 110109 5/5/1944
5085 5th Bomb Group 394th Bomb Squadron B-24D 42 72820 4/23/1944
5092 5th Bomb Group 72nd Bomb Squadron B-24D-72 42 72828 5/12/1944
5524 5th Bomb Group 31st Bomb Squadron B-24J 42 110136 5/21/1944
5659 5th Bomb Group ? Bomb Squadron B-24D 42-41151 6/3/1944
6382 5th Bomb Group 23rd Bomb Squadron B-24J 42-110139 6/23/1944
6581 5th Bomb Group 394th Bomb Squadron B-24J 42-73454 6/18/1944
6582 5th Bomb Group ? Bomb Squadron B-24D 42-41189 6/9/1944
7013 5th Bomb Group 72nd Bomb Squadron B-24J 44-40566 6/17/1944
7343 5th Bomb Group 394th Bomb Squadron B-24J 42-73268 8/9/1944
8873 5th Bomb Group 72nd Bomb Squadron B-24J 44-40596 8/25/1944
9146 5th Bomb Group 72nd Bomb Squadron B-24D-40 42 48752 3/30/1944
9456 5th Bomb Group 394th Bomb Squadron B-24J 44-40529 10/30/1944
9580 5th Bomb Group 394th Bomb Squadron B-24 J 44-40594 7/19/1944
10016 5th Bomb Group 23rd Bomb Squadron B-24J 42-11037 11/1/1944
10017 5th Bomb Group 23rd Bomb Squadron B-24J 44-40606 11/1/1944
10018 5th Bomb Group 72nd Bomb Squadron B-24J 44-40947 10/24/1944
10021 5th Bomb Group 23rd Bomb Squadron B-24J 44-41174 11/1/1944
11033 5th Bomb Group 72nd Bomb Squadron B-24J 44-40932 9/30/1944
10335 5th Bomb Group 23rd Bomb Squadron B-24J 44-40924 11/16/1944
10460 5th Bomb Group 23rd Bomb Squadron B-24J 44-41382 11/1/1944
10667 5th Bomb Group 23rd Bomb Squadron B-24J 44-41387 11/16/1944
10843 5th Bomb Group 394th Bomb Squadron B-24J 44-40551 12/1/1944
10844 5th Bomb Group ? Bomb Squadron B-24J 44-40962 11/16/1944
11379 5th Bomb Group 394th Bomb Squadron B-24J 44-40595 11/22/1944
11532 5th Bomb Group 23rd Bomb Squadron B-24J 44-40536 1/5/1945
11624 5th Bomb Group 394th Bomb Squadron B-24J 44-40964 12/1/1944
11626 5th Bomb Group 23rd Bomb Squadron B-24J 44-40548 1/10/1945
11655 5th Bomb Group 72nd Bomb Squadron B-24 44-41345 11/7/1944
11968 5th Bomb Group 31st Bomb Squadron B-24D 42-41246 6/17/1944
12252 5th Bomb Group 31st Bomb Squadron B-24J 44-40572 1/5/1945
12791 5th Bomb Group 72nd Bomb Squadron B-24J 44-41347 11/21/1944
13310 5th Bomb Group 23rd Bomb Squadron B-24L 44-49840 3/12/1945
13311 5th Bomb Group 23rd Bomb Squadron B-24L 44-41549 3/12/1945
14252 5th Bomb Group 23rd Bomb Squadron B-24M 44-41853 4/2/1945
14289 5th Bomb Group 72nd Bomb Squadron B-24J 42-73148 4/2/1944
14469 5th Bomb Group 72nd Bomb Squadron B-24M 44-41842 5/18/1945
14739 5th Bomb Group 72nd Bomb Squadron B-24M 44-41841 5/30/1945
15147 5th Bomb Group 31st Bomb Squadron B-24 42-73469 3/5/1944
15655 5th Bomb Group 72nd Bomb Squadron B-24 44-41026 11/7/1944
16007 5th Bomb Group 31st Bomb Squadron B-24D 42 40685 7/20/1943
16371 5th Bomb Group 72nd Bomb Squadron B-17 41-2529 6/6/1942
16531 5th Bomb Group 58th Bomb Squadron A-20 40-125 4/23/1942
16541 5th Bomb Group 72nd Bomb Squadron B-17 41-9212 6/6/1942

Other's that do not seem to have an MACR
41-9093 - 72nd Bomb Squadron
41-2661 - 31st Bomb Squadron 6/5/1942
44-42245 - 23rd Bomb Squadron
44-42418 - 23rd Bomb Squadron
44-49753 -23rd Bomb Squadron
44-49848 Lost 4/8/1945
44-41541 - 394th Bomb Squadron collision with 44-41869 4/30/1945
B-17E 41-9124 31st Bomb Squadron 3/23/1943, Salvaged

Re: 5th BG losses ?
 

Additions
16109 - 349BS - 'B24 - 813' - 17/06/1945 - SCHULZ, F, C.
16211 - 23BS - B24 - 44-49870 - 18/06/45 - ORISINI, M, D.
16213 - 23BS - B24 - " 324" - 27/05/1944 - HODGINS, J, E.
16232 - 394BS - B24 - "023" - 09/03/1945 - SMITH,K, R.

Re: 5th BG losses ?
 

Here's a duplicate MACR.

MACR 16090
27th June 1943.
No details but thinking that it was a B-17.

Other MACR 16090 is for -
17th April 1943
91st BG/401BS
B-17F 42-5337, pilot N,F, LINSEY.

But details of the 5th BG a/c ???

Thanks
Alex

Re: 5th BG losses ?
 

Hello,

Re: Liberator LB-30 AL589 (Post # 11).

https://www.pacificwrecks.com/aircraft/lb-30/AL589.html

AL589
AL611 - TRADER HORN later COMAIRFWD.
AL617 - FLIGHT CHIEF later AUSTRALIA
AL626 - FAST FREIGHT - Southern Cross Airways No.3, later FAST FREIGHT and SAMOA.

AL633 - OLD FAITHFUL later SEVENTH HEAVEN - did not participate in raid.

These aircraft operated initially as field-converted bombers, and later as C-87 conversions .

Two of the other pilots were; Roger Maxwell Ramey and Arthur W. Meehan, who went on to command the 90th BG.

See also:
Under The Southern Cross The B-24 Liberator in the South Pacific.
Livingstone,Bob
Paducah:Turner Publishing,1998.
pp.110 & 155.

Col.

Re: 5th BG losses ?
 

If anyone's still interested I can assure you that Kramer's plane was 41-2529 and Porter was in 41-9212. I can't tell you how that 41-2415 error came about, but it is an error. I suspect that 41-2415 was named Bitch Kitty and it was still around in 1943.

Re: 5th BG losses ?
 

Thanks Steve

Yes we are (still interested :) )

Cheers
Stig

Re: 5th BG losses ?
 

Yes, thank you Steve.

Confirming the details in my list, can you confirm the date for both of them as the 6/6/42 ?

Not available to me at this time due Public Library access to computers( some functions do not work on my Tablet at home).
So not able to access the MACR's as I would like, but when I made the list I had -
Porter 41-9212 as the 5th June 42, MACR 16541.
and
Kramer 41-2529 as the 6th June 42. MACR 16371.

Also looks like 41-2415 in the B17 Database (Osborne) is incorrect ?

Thanks
Alex

Re: 5th BG losses ?
 

Hi Alex -

Both those losses were on 5 June 1942. They were from the five-plane 72nd Bomb Squadron force led by Don Ridings . . .

41-2639 Capt. Don Ridings
41-9212 Capt. Robert Porter (missing, no survivors)
41-2609 Capt. Richard Stepp
41-2529 Capt. Glen Kramer (out of fuel, ditched, nine survivors)
41-2444 Lt John R. Bird

Why various official reports show Porter in 41-2415 is a mystery.