JUNKERS88/188 AIRFRAME EXPERT NEEDED
 

Dear all

is it possible from this poor picture to determine which type of A/C it is : Ju88 or Ju188 ?

I hope the visible structure could speak.

it concerns an aircraft crashed in spring or summer 1944 in the south of Brives in the South of France for which we try to rebuild the story. It seems that crew bailed out and was safe.

Thanks for your help

GC

Re: JUNKERS88/188 AIRFRAME EXPERT NEEDED
 

Chèr Gilles,

Could this piece be related to the loss of the Ju 88A-4 Werknummer 4504, lost on the 27th February 1943, South of Bourges. It was a IV/KG 77 machine flown by Hauptmann Ernst Dahlmann?

Re: JUNKERS88/188 AIRFRAME EXPERT NEEDED
 

Salut mon copain Adriano

non, this aircraft definitely crashed in 1944 (exact date TBC), not in 1943.

So, it is another one.

I am waiting for more data and information, I 'll let you know when I have

bonne journée :)

Gilles

Re: JUNKERS88/188 AIRFRAME EXPERT NEEDED
 

Try out how this fin looks compared thy photo.

https://luftwaffeinprofile.se/Dornier%20II.html

Re: JUNKERS88/188 AIRFRAME EXPERT NEEDED
 

Ed, this new path (Do217) is a very good idea.

It reminds me of a Do217 whose crew was shot by the French resistance, It would match well with the local story, I can't remember when exactly it happened and I shall search .

If anyone has more data about this story....

Re: JUNKERS88/188 AIRFRAME EXPERT NEEDED
 

I found it.
The local background (which is, I must confess, unclear) states that one of the crew was shot, which would match (this is not a common story).
We will see on site what parts we find and if the date can be confirmed.
Stay tuned.


1944-06-10 6./KG 100 Do 217M-11 723052 Bischoff, Ernst-Günther Bordfunker Uffz vermißt
1944-06-10 6./KG 100 Do 217M-11 723052 Kirchhoff, Heinrich Flugzeugführer Olt +
1944-06-10 6./KG 100 Do 217M-11 723052 Schäfer, Hellmut Beobachter Uffz Von Terroristen erschoßen.

Re: JUNKERS88/188 AIRFRAME EXPERT NEEDED
 

Ed...your eyes and knowledge beat us!..and gave Gilles a new road.
Congratulations!...and Claus Sundin art is simply wonderful...a masterpiece...

Gilles, now a new road is open...Do 217 M or K....

Bonne chasse au trésor!

A.

Re: JUNKERS88/188 AIRFRAME EXPERT NEEDED
 

Gilles, was this Brives (Indre) or Brives-Charensac (Haute-Loire), or even Brive-la-Gaillarde (Corrèze)?

Re: JUNKERS88/188 AIRFRAME EXPERT NEEDED
 

it is in the south of Brives la gaillarde,
more precisely between Cahors and Brives la Gaillarde (closest location: Payrac)
Thanks Nick
GC

Re: JUNKERS88/188 AIRFRAME EXPERT NEEDED
 

Could be this one
17.July 44 III.KG100 100 % crash 100 km north Toulouse, Do217 crew parachuted seems safe , no other detail, data come from HW5/522

Rémi

Re: JUNKERS88/188 AIRFRAME EXPERT NEEDED
 

So it would be this one

1944-07-17 9./KG 100 Do 217K-2 4579 Bruch 100 %.

merci pour l'input Rémi

Gilles

Re: JUNKERS88/188 AIRFRAME EXPERT NEEDED
 

Peut-être pas, the location for this one is only "Invasion Raum", there are 2 other losses in that night, usually they are starting from Toulouse around 18.00, refuelling on the way , nd delivering their FX/Hs293 missiles around 21/22.00
Crew is still quoted as Missing !
But the worst is that I made a mistake, nd that the loss hv to be read as ;

4.July 44 III.KG100 100 % crash 100 km north Toulouse, Do217 crew parachuted seems safe , no other detail, data come from HW5/522

...
Nd at that date 7 possibilities are offered
Rémi

Re: JUNKERS88/188 AIRFRAME EXPERT NEEDED
 

Nd these 7 possibilities are :
4 7 44 7 III KG100 Seinemündung X DO217M-11 723041 6N+BS xx %
4 7 44 III KG100 Toulouse 100 km N, A DO217 100 %

4 7 44 IIIST KG100 Ornemündung See/Seinebucht A FNJ n, Bombenabw, 5000 m DO217K-3 4718 6N+DT 100 %
4 7 44 9 KG100 Girondemündung/Royan b, X DO217K-3 4710 100 %
4 7 44 8 KG100 Le havre See/Seinebucht A FNJ b, hinstrecke DO217M-1/K-3 326457 6N+FS 100 %
4 7 44 7 KG100 Seinemündung X DO217M-11 723037 6N+ES 100 %
4 7 44 7 KG100 Pont sur Yonne 10 km NW Sens N DO217M-11 723060 100 %
But only the one northern Toulouse is to consider as all other losses crews fates are documented
that day III.KG100 put on the air 15 Do217/Hs293 start from Francazal at 20h00 /stop in Cognac nd action over the landing beaches , nd lost totally only 6 planes...... Interesting is that these actions seem to hv gathered few successes maybe it would be worth for a book to explain why .
Rémi

Re: JUNKERS88/188 AIRFRAME EXPERT NEEDED
 

I realize that I did not acknowledge receipt of your message Rémi, sorry for that and thanks for the ideas.

It could be one of these Do217 indeed, since the reported crash location may be wrong.

I noticed that when an A/C was missing and the exact crash site was not known, the target area which was written on the report.

Going on site and interviewing the witnesses (this will be in September) may bring a clue.

Have a nice day all.

GC