Missing Southern Rhodesia Air Force serials SR14-SR21?
 

Hi Guys,

Southern Rhodesia began to form its own air unit in the mid 1930s with an assortment of Hawker Harts and Audaxes, and de Havilland Rapides and Tiger Moths. These had the serials SR1-SR13.

After WWII the sequence resumed with SR22.

What aircraft filled the serials SR14-21?

Two possibilities occur to me.

1) The serials were given to assorted civil de Havilland Moths of different types impressed for training at the outbreak of war.

or

2) The serials were given to some Hawker Hardys delivered to the SRAF's No.1 Squadron in Kenya, shortly before it was taken into the RAF in April 1940.

In both cases the numbers are about right.

Any help would be much appreciated.

Cheers,

Sid.

Re: Missing Southern Rhodesia Air Force serials SR14-SR21?
 

Hello,

Just two at the moment:

SR 18 - Tiger Moth (ex-T6956)
SR 19 - Tiger Moth (ex-T7995)

Col.

Re: Missing Southern Rhodesia Air Force serials SR14-SR21?
 

On page 298 of the book "A Pride of Eagles A History of the Rhodesian Air Force"

https://books.google.com/books?id=Rl...R%2021&f=false

there is this sentence: "On 19th April, (1947) another aircraft joined the fleet, an Avro Anson numbered SR 21."

The same page mentions a Leopard Moth SR 22. Another page says SR 22 was taken on charge in March of 1947. Not sure why the numbers seem out of sequence with the dates. At any rate, the post war sequence may have started with SR 21.

Re: Missing Southern Rhodesia Air Force serials SR14-SR21?
 

Hello,

SR14 = Hawker Audax I.
SR21 = Avro Anson.

May be a link with the Tiger Moths,
T6956 - SR18 - Sold 6.5.49 to SRAF.
T7995 - SR19 - Sold 6.5.49 to SRAF.
Were there others this date sold to SRAF ?
Other Audax's to Southern Rhodesia were K7534; K7540; K7546 and K7548.

SR 22 - Leopard Moth
SR23 - DH Rapide
SR24 - DH Rapide
SR25 - Dakota
SR26 - Tiger Moth
SR27 - Tiger Moth
SR28 - ?
SR29 - Anson C.19.
SR30 - Anson C.19.
SR31 - Anson C.19.

Alex

Re: Missing Southern Rhodesia Air Force serials SR14-SR21?
 

Hi Guys,

Thanks very much.

As SR18 and above are definitely post war, this only leaves SR14-SR17.

This presumably discounts the eight Hawker Hardys and probably the assorted impressed DH Moth trainers, of which there were about eight or nine.

The four Audaxes I know of were given the serials SR10-SR13, so the Audax mentioned above by Alex as SR14 fits into that sequence. I would be interested to know the source?

This leaves the three serials SR15-SR17. This coincides with claims that three Gloster Gauntlets were allocated to Rhodesia, but I can find no confirmation of their arrival.

Any further ideas?

Many thanks.

Re: Missing Southern Rhodesia Air Force serials SR14-SR21?
 

There's are reference here https://www.flightglobal.com/FlightP...20-%201514.PDF that some Gauntlets were used in Rhodesia for met flights. May have been the three Gauntlets reportedly delivered to the SRAF.



Regards,
Leendert

Re: Missing Southern Rhodesia Air Force serials SR14-SR21?
 

Hello,

The three Gauntlets supplied to Rhodesia were:

Gauntlet II - K5277, K5347 & K7825

K5277 - Deld to 10 FTS 27.4.36; 1 ASU 9.4.38; 5 MU 7.2.39; 36 MU 18.8.39 for shipment to Rhodesia for SRAF as No.150

K5347 - Deld to 17 Sqn 11.8.36; 5 MU 27.6.39; 36 MU 18.9.39; shipped to SRAF as No.151

K7825 - Allotted to 66 Sqn 30.9.36 tipped up in forced landing, 5.11.36; 5 MU 17.7.39; 36 MU 18.9.39; to ME for SRAF 14.9.39 as No.152; used by 3 Sqn RAAF.

K File(1995)/A-B/Halley/pp.180 & 184

Col.

Re: Missing Southern Rhodesia Air Force serials SR14-SR21?
 

This link may give a clue in your search

https://archive.is/jXhTm

Alex

Re: Missing Southern Rhodesia Air Force serials SR14-SR21?
 

Hi Guys,

Thanks again. That all adds to the picture.

The Gauntlet serials 150-152 slot between the SRAF serials SR-1+ and the Southern Rhodesia Air Service (SRAS) wartime serials that ranged between about 250 and about 305. SRAS doubled as the SRAF's Communications Squadron over 1940-45.

As the SRAF's Rapide SR-8 later became SRAS's 300, there was certainly some aircraft swapping and serial changing between the two organizations during the war.

Perhaps the RATG's Meteorological Service, which I have seen referred to as a Rhodesian organization, had its own aircraft (Harts and Gauntlets), as Leendert states, and they had their own wartime serials in the 150+ range and just possibly the Gauntlets were formerly SR-15 to SR-17?

Again, many thanks for edging me towards a conclusion with your collective expertise.

Sid.

Re: Missing Southern Rhodesia Air Force serials SR14-SR21?
 

Hi Guys,

I have found the following on an RAF forum:

"Last in the scheme of things there were sundry old Hawker Harts and Gloster Gauntlets in various areas of the command. They were used on the 'met climb' which took place at regular intervals, the frequency depending on the season of the year. For the record, the old Hart was originally K3888 of the Royal Air Force and survived until the middle of 1944, when the advent of some Hurricanes caused it to be written off charge."

One wonders if these Hurricanes were given to the SRAF met flight or whether they remained part of the RAF?

Cheers,

Sid

Re: Missing Southern Rhodesia Air Force serials SR14-SR21?
 

All

There is some confusion over the Harts and Audax

But lets start with the Harts

A Pride of Eagles: A History of the Rhodesian Air Force

1936 Government "6 Hawker Harts by end of Year"

However we also quoted (Internet)

Hart (seven a/c shipped in crates from the UK to Beira, Mozambique in March 1937, and then to Cranborne, SR by railway):

K3877 (became SR1), K3888 (SR2), K3889 (SR3), K2986 (SR4), K3886 (SR5), 'K3025' and K3026 (perhaps SR6 and SR7).


K3025 was written off in crash landing in RAF in Feb 1937 'spun in' I wonder if supplied as Instructional airframe or a mis-ident for K3028

https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=207001


Anyway

Rhodesian Air Force: the sanctions busters

Has

SR1 Hawker Hart 1937 -> K3877
SR2 Hawker Hart 1937 -> K3888
SR3 Hawker Hart 1937 ->K3889
SR4 Hawker Hart 1937 -> K2986
SR5 Hawker Hart 1937 -> 'K3025' -WRONG Photo evidence has this as K3886
SR6 Hawker Hart 1937 -> (K3028) maybe K3026

I assume in brackets for unproven

This is different


It is possible the 'extra Hart' was an Instructional Airframe and may have been given a SR serial later

I think K3025 (if right was the Instructional Airframe)

Not convinced the Gauntlets are the missing numbers

http://www.aeroflight.co.uk/waf/aa-a...types/hart.htm

Re: Missing Southern Rhodesia Air Force serials SR14-SR21?
 

I think SR14 was possibly Hawker Audax K7540 or K7546

and K7540 or K7546 is either


SR15 Hawker Audax (Rhodesian Air Force: the sanctions busters)
SR17 Hawker Audax (Rhodesian Air Force: the sanctions busters


I think SR16 is the Instructional Airframe Hart
and the Other Audax (SR15 or SR17) is also Instructional Airframe

Re: Missing Southern Rhodesia Air Force serials SR14-SR21?
 

Hi paulmacmillan.

SR1 to SR6 were Harts. These arrived in crates.

SR7 was a Tiger Moth.

SR8 and SR9 were Rapides. SR8, at least, was ferried in from the UK.

SR10 to SR13 were Audaxes. These were ferried in from Egypt.

It is over SR14 to SR17 that there seems to be no clarity.

Certainly three Gloster Guntlets were delivered in crates in late 1939. Above their local serials are given as 150 to 152.

It has also been stated above that SR14 was another Audax, and it seems clear from Pride of Eagles that at least five different Audaxes (reportedly K7534, K7540, K7545, K7546, K7548) were in use with No.1 Squadron's successor, 237 (Rhodesia) Squadron RAF, in Kenya by June 1940.

There seems to be a gap in the air-historiography regarding S14 to S17 that doesn't yet allow a definitive answer.

Chronology and logic would suggest that SR15 to SR17 should originally have been allocated to the three Gloster Gauntlets, but this may not have been the case if four further, unknown, Audaxes reached the Rhodesians in 1939-40.

Cheers,

Sid.

Re: Missing Southern Rhodesia Air Force serials SR14-SR21?
 

Sid

I accept SR1 to SR6 were HArts

But what about

£
Hart (seven a/c shipped in crates from the UK to Beira, Mozambique in March 1937, and then to Cranborne, SR by railway):

K3877 (became SR1), K3888 (SR2), K3889 (SR3), K2986 (SR4), K3886 (SR5), 'K3025' and K3026 (either perhaps SR6).

My issue is with the actual number of Harts shipped - I cannot believe that they would not ship an extra one (if one available) to act as an Instructional Airframe


Paul

Re: Missing Southern Rhodesia Air Force serials SR14-SR21?
 

Hi paulmacmillan,

I suspect the seventh crated aircraft may have been the Tiger Moth SR7.

The Rapide SR8 was ferried in by air.

On their first tour of Rhodesia in September 1938, only five Harts were used. Perhaps the sixth was the instructional airframe you are looking for.

Regarding the three Gloster Gauntlets - We know they were promised in April 1939 and we know they were used for meteorological flights in WWII.

On top of this we know from p.62 of Pride of Eagles that the first job that six apprentices, who had just been trained by the RAF in the UK, were given on their return to Southern Rhodesia in October 1939 was to build crated aircraft. These presumably can only have been the Gloster Gauntlets (though the author mistakenly writes "Gloster Gladiators").

It is noticeable that your source Rhodesian Air Force: Sanctions Busters also gives the delivery dates for Audaxes SR15 and SR17 as October 1939.

My guess is that this identification is wrong and that SR15 to SR17 were originally the three Gloster Gauntlets and they soon received new serials (150 to 152) in the general reordering that saw the creation of SRAS.

To confuse the matter further, apparently the Rhodesians were originally promised six Audaxes, not the four or five known to have been received!

Cheers,

An ever more confused Sid.

Re: Missing Southern Rhodesia Air Force serials SR14-SR21?
 

Sid

Thanks unless there is a dusty file found in some archive anywhere or a photo Gloster Gauntlet turns up we may never know

OK so what was SR20

Paul

Re: Missing Southern Rhodesia Air Force serials SR14-SR21?
 

Hi paul,

Rereading Pride of Eagles, it appears that the SRAF got six, not four, Audaxes, though one was damaged on the ferry flight.

If the extra two were SR14 and SR15, that doesn't leave enough blank serials for three Gauntlets.

That would presumably mean we are looking for two other aircraft to be SR16 and SR17.

Cheers,

Sid.

Re: Missing Southern Rhodesia Air Force serials SR14-SR21?
 

Hello,

SR 25 was ex-SAAF Dakota Mk III 6842 with c/n 13865/25310 and later re-serialed as 157 and w/o 02-06-1977

SR29 was ex-RAF Anson C. Mk 19 VL356; to SP-YNX

SR30 was ex-RAF Anson C. Mk 19 VM335; to SP-YNY

SR31 was ex-RAF Anson C. Mk 19 VM337; to VP-YNZ

Best regards

Ruud

Re: Missing Southern Rhodesia Air Force serials SR14-SR21?
 

In a very interesting article Andy Thomas makes a somewhat different interpretation, listed here with some further comments by me

SR 1 to 6 Hawker Hart (K3877, K3888, K3889, K2986, K3886, K3028) I can't see how either K3025 or K3026 could have made it to Rhodesia. K3025 seems to have been smashed to pieces and K3026 went to SAAF as 352 on 5.8.1938.

SR 7 DH 82 Tiger Moth

SR 8 DH 89 Dragon Rapide (SR 9 has in the past been reported as another one, but so far no one has come up with an identity!)

SR 9 to 14 Hawker Audax (K3108, K3117, K7534, K7540, K7546, K7548)

150 - 152 Gloster Gauntlet (As far as I can see they may well have been intended to become SR 15 to SR 17)

The wartime SRAS is quite underresearched and so far I have seen reports about:
Hawker Hart/Audax: 101 to 112
DH Tiger Moth: 201 to 204 (but photo exists of 231 in 1943)
DH Leopard Moth: 250 to 252
DH Dragon: 260
DH Dragon Rapide: 300 to 305

Postwar it seems SRAF continued with SR 18 and up, but I cannot find any aircraft fitting SR 20

Someone also asked about SR 28. This was an Auster J1 ex G-AGTU

Cheers
Stig

Re: Missing Southern Rhodesia Air Force serials SR14-SR21?
 

Hi Stig,

There seems to have been a new serial system introduced early in the war that involved the 100s, 150s, 250s, 260s, 270s and 300s. These included a mix of former SRAF aircraft and pre-war civil aircraft.

I suspect this has something to do with including all impressed civil aircraft and existing Government aircraft by type in a single registration scheme.

Where can I find Andy Thomas's article?

Many thanks,

Sid.

P.S. This still leaves SR15, SR16 and SR17 a mystery. I suspect they were part of the pre-war sequence rather than the post-war sequence.

If the Audax sequence really is SR9-SR14, this would leave open the possibility that the three Gauntlets were SR15-SR17.

The other reported Rapide (previously given as SR9) is indeed a mystery. It was not used to support the SRAU's initial move to Kenya and it does not appear in the later 300+ Rapide sequence. By contrast, Rapide SR8 was involved in both.

Re: Missing Southern Rhodesia Air Force serials SR14-SR21?
 

Hello,

Here are some dates on the SR-system of serials.

19-09-1939: start of SR-system
28-06-1940: end of SR-system
11-1947: revival of SR-system (this included SR29 to SR31)

SR1 to SR94 and SR100 to SR139 were used, and SR95 to SR99 were not used.

Best regards,

Ruud

Re: Missing Southern Rhodesia Air Force serials SR14-SR21?
 

Sid

I am not in my home right now (will be on next Sunday again)
The article was in an Air Enthusiast.
If you send me your e-mail in a PM to me, I will scan it when I get home.

Cheers
Stig

Re: Missing Southern Rhodesia Air Force serials SR14-SR21?
 

From aeroflight:


SRAF Pre-WW2

Aircraft assigned to the Southern Rhodesia Air Unit (and later Southern Rhodesia Air Force) were given a single digit serial number with the prefix SR. Some aircraft wore their SR serials in addition to their RAF serials, e.g. Hart K3877/SR3. When the SRAF was absorbed into the RAF, the SR serial system was discontinued. Aircraft with Nos. 237, 44 and 266 Squadrons carried RAF serials.



SRAF 1947-1954

In the initial period after the re-establishment of a Southern Rhodesia Air Force, the SR serial system was continued from where it left off. As new aircraft were received, additional serial numbers were allocated in sequence. When the Vampires were delivered, a jump was made to a new serial block starting at SR100. The sequence ended at SR 139, a Percival Provost.

Re: Missing Southern Rhodesia Air Force serials SR14-SR21?
 

Hello,

"Where can I find Andy Thomas' article?"

Fledgling Eagles: Early Military Aviation in Southern Rhodesia.
Andrew Thomas.
Air Enthusiast - July/August,2007 (No.130).

Col.

Re: Missing Southern Rhodesia Air Force serials SR14-SR21?
 

I read Pride of Eagles[ again today it says 4 Audax's in Rhodesia - 2 at RAF Heliopolis and 1 at Malakal (South Sudan?) -> Arrived at part of ferry flight #2

there were 5 in First Ferry - one damaged at Malakal
2 aircraft in second Ferry (one upside down Lusaka) plus repaired one fromv Malakal

So 7 Audax in total but one may never have arrived

Re: Missing Southern Rhodesia Air Force serials SR14-SR21?
 

And still no Idea of SR-20?

Re: Missing Southern Rhodesia Air Force serials SR14-SR21?
 

Hi Stig,

I have all bar about six of Air Enthusiast. If you give me the volume number, I will dig it out.

Many thanks.

Sid.

P.S. Col. Bruggy says above that the article is in AE130. Unfortunately the last three issues are among those I lack, so if you could copy it, it would be appreciated. (The others I lack are 109, 120, 121, 122, 123 and 124.)

Re: Missing Southern Rhodesia Air Force serials SR14-SR21?
 

You can get it here:


http://www.magazineexchange.co.uk/ai...issue-130.html

Re: Missing Southern Rhodesia Air Force serials SR14-SR21?
 

Col is usually right

No problem to copy it, but it has to wait until this coming weekend (Sunday to be specific). Please send me a PM with your e-mail address.

If anyone else wants the article, pls do the same. I don't save the scans so I would appreciate a "collective order" :)

Cheers
Stig

Re: Missing Southern Rhodesia Air Force serials SR14-SR21?
 

Hi PaulMcmillan,

I have had another look at Pride of Eagles and my impression from it is that there were four Audaxes in the first ferry flight. The fifth aircraft was the Rapide SR8 that carried the pilots and mechanics to Egypt and accompanied the Audaxes back.

Cheers,

Sid.

Re: Missing Southern Rhodesia Air Force serials SR14-SR21?
 

Hi edwest2,

Thanks for the link. Unfortunately there are no AE130s for sale at present.

I have put in a "want" though, for the AEs I am still missing.

Cheers,

Sid.

Re: Missing Southern Rhodesia Air Force serials SR14-SR21?
 

Helo,

I made an overview of the SR-serials that I could find. Any suggestions are very welcome!!

Ruud

Re: Missing Southern Rhodesia Air Force serials SR14-SR21?
 

Ruud

Away from my home right now, but you can immediately correct the misprint given before of the two Ansons sold and registered SP-Yxx.
None went to Poland and the country prefix is VP (just like the last one)

Cheers
Stig

Re: Missing Southern Rhodesia Air Force serials SR14-SR21?
 

Hi Ruud,

Looks good in the areas I am interested in, as it leaves open the possibility that SR15-17 were the initial serials of the three Gauntlets, before they became 150-152.

Also, if the Harts had 101-106, it presumably means that the Audaxes were in the 110+, 120+, 130+ or 140+ series and it is even theoretically possible that the Hardys that were delivered to the SRAF in Kenya may have been included in the same series as they arrived before No.1 Squadron was taken into the RAF.

Cheers,

Sid

Re: Missing Southern Rhodesia Air Force serials SR14-SR21?
 

An added complication. In Pride of Eagles, there is a photo of two Tiger Moths presented to the SRAF by private donation on 28 March and 10 June 1940.

One wonders how many more were privately subscribed for?

Sid

Re: Missing Southern Rhodesia Air Force serials SR14-SR21?
 

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...=audax&f=false

Operations Records 11th June (1940)

Dawn sorties as under were carried out

Hardy K4055 Pilot Fg Off Spence - A/C Stowe
Audax K7548 Pilot Fg Off Miles Johnson - A/C Burl
Audax K7540 Pilot Fg Off Holdengarde - A/C Bell
Audax K7546 Pilot Fg Off Christie - A/C Marshal
Audax K7545 Pilot Fg Off White - Sergeant Murrell
Audax K7534 Pilot Fg Off Olver - A/C Horobin

Areas patrolled X1, Y1, Y3, Y4, Z1, Z2, Z5 No Movement seen

Hardy K4319 Pilot Fg Off Spence - A/C Hall
Audax K7546 Pilot Fg Off John Walmisley - A/C Strickland
Hardy K4055 Pilot F/Lt Smith - LAC Morton


Areas patrolled X1, Y1, Y3, Y4, Z2, Z2, Z5 No Movement seen


This is interesting on 2 points - Firstly the serials are the RAF ones - Rather than SR11 (K7534) SR13 (K7546) SR12 (K7540 ) SR14 (K7548 )

Audax K7545 is a new one ! - Has anyone got a history of this ??

First on same page is mentioned "Audax 7531" - I assume K7531 - Has anyone got a history of this as well

I will come back to Audax in Pride of Eagles

Re: Missing Southern Rhodesia Air Force serials SR14-SR21?
 

Why I think at least 7 Audax..

You can read the book here

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...0audax&f=false


Pride of Eagles

Page 51

Second Ferry

"Four Audaxes had flown to Rhodesia in March (1939) but two were still with the RAF in Heliopolis"

This flight was scheduled to bring three aircraft: two from Cairo, and the Audax that had been left at Malakal on the previous trip"

However, only two reached Salisbury because Graham Smith's machine had to be left in Lusaka

Thus Total = 7 Audax

Frist Trip (5 left 4 Arrived 1 in Malakal) = 4 in Rhodesia
Second Trip (2 left Cairo, plus 1 from Malakal 2 arrived (one from Cario, 1 from Malakal , 1 Left at Luska) = 4 + 2 in Rhodesia plus 1 in Lusaka = 7

I can't read the book any other way

Note: A photo of these last 2 with escorting Rapide SR8 is in the book

Re: Missing Southern Rhodesia Air Force serials SR14-SR21?
 

On Saturday, I get the book The K-File. This book is about all UK Aircraft with serials starting with a K. I hope to find more information in there.

Best regards,

Ruud

Re: Missing Southern Rhodesia Air Force serials SR14-SR21?
 

Hi PaulMacMillan,

p.44 of Pride of Eagles states, ".....the Air Ministry agreed to sell Rhodesia six Hawker Audaxes and three Gloster Gauntlets at a nominal cost."

p.51 states "Four Audaxes had been flown to Rhodesia in March but two were still with the RAF in Heliopolis."

One from the first flight was left damaged at Malakal in the Sudan (see p.48).

p.51 again: "This (the second) flight was scheduled to bring back three aircraft: two from Cairo, and the Audax that had been left at Malakal."

"However, only two reached Salisbury because Graham Smith's machine had to be left in Lusaka."

Thus, as I read it, there were only six Audaxes in total. They were despatched in two flights, one of four aircraft and one of two, but both flights had one machine delayed by damage en route.

Cheers,

Sid.

P.S. By June 1940 No.1 Squadron, SRAF, had already become 237 (Rhodesia) Squadron, RAF, so the use of RAF serials at that time need not be a surprise.

Re: Missing Southern Rhodesia Air Force serials SR14-SR21?
 

Here are some updates, also from the book The K File.

Best regards,

Ruud