USAAF Claims 25th February 1944
 

Hi all !
I am researching the crash of a relative.
Was member of JG104. Crased at Mettenheim/Mühldorf
Area (Bavaria/Germany) on 25. February 1944.
http://www.multimap.com/map/browse.c...e=50000&icon=x

Does someone have data on the location of the following USAAF
claims of 25. February 1944 ?

fighter group name claim%
37 Mathews Morgan H 1
61 Funcheon Donald M 1
61 Lamb Robert A 1
62 Quirk Michael J 1
83 Dougherty Kenneth W 1
334 Beeson Duane W 1
335 McKennon Pierce W 1
336 Garrison Vermont 1
336 Gentile Don S 1
336 Herter Glenn A 1
343 Giller Edward B 1
352 Marchant William S 0.5
352 Streit William F 0.5
355 Gumm Charles F jr 1
355 Stephens Robert W 1
356 Goodnight Robert E 0.25
356 Miller Thomas F 1.75
356 Mitchell Homer R 0.25
356 O'Connor Frank Q 1
356 Welden Robert D 1.75
362 Becker Robert H 1.5
362 Broadhead Joseph W 1
362 Bron Robert D 1
362 Kehrer Merlin R 1
362 Lingo Arthur M 0.5
362 Pyeatt Alvin F III 1
376 Alcorn Estel C 1
376 Duncan John D 1
376 Lane Howard A 1
379 Abdallah Edward A 0.33
379 Gordon Richard J 0.33
379 Peterson Carrol A 0.33




But maybe alternatively was shot down by a bomber?

Strangely this JG104 Me109 took off Herzogenaurach/Nürnberg
heading for Regensburg USAAF attack. Was last seen
Kehlheim/Riedenburg area involved in air battle.
http://www.multimap.com/map/browse.c...=200000&icon=x

But crashed more than 100 km SW to this battle area!
Why?

Any help appreciated,
bye
FrankieS

Re: USAAF Claims 25th February 1944
 

Hello,

Here what i found and hope this could help.

37 Mathews Morgan H 1
61 Funcheon Donald M 1
61 Lamb Robert A 1 :Landau
62 Quirk Michael J 1 : Homburg
83 Dougherty Kenneth W 1 : Boekingen
334 Beeson Duane W 1 : Beckingen
335 McKennon Pierce W 1 : S Luxembourg
336 Garrison Vermont 1 / Luxembourg area (FW 190)
336 Gentile Don S 1 : 20 km SE Luxembourg
336 Herter Glenn A 1 : See Gentile, same area
343 Giller Edward B 1 : Me 410 5 miles SE Augsburg
352 Marchant William S 0.5
352 Streit William F 0.5
355 Gumm Charles F jr 1 : 25 km E of Munich (Me 109 dam) + Furth (Nurnberg area)
355 Stephens Robert W 1 : Furth (see Gum)
356 Goodnight Robert E 0.25
356 Miller Thomas F 1.75 : Manheim
356 Mitchell Homer R 0.25 : Manheim
356 O'Connor Frank Q 1 : 50 miles NE of Manheim
356 Welden Robert D 1.75 : Manheim
362 Becker Robert H 1.5 : Regensburg (x2 twin engines)
362 Broadhead Joseph W 1 : Regensburg
362 Bron Robert D 1
362 Kehrer Merlin R 1 : Ju 88 W of Schweinfurt
362 Lingo Arthur M 0.5 : 50 miles W of Regensburg
362 Pyeatt Alvin F III 1 : Regensburg
376 Alcorn Estel C 1 : Longuyon (France)
376 Duncan John D 1 : Courtrai (Belgium)
376 Lane Howard A 1
379 Abdallah Edward A 0.33 : JU 88 near Soissons (France)
379 Gordon Richard J 0.33

It's not unusual to see a plane crashed very far from battle area. Maybe she could be involved in a dog fight or maybe damaged and try to escape from battle area. Here (France) i've seen planes downed more than 150 km from the last place they were seen.

Stephane Muret

Re: USAAF Claims 25th February 1944
 

Dear Stephane !

Thank you very, very much for your great efforts.
So maybe the loss of my relative is corresponding to
Charles F. Gumm's claim (Me109).

I appreciate your help very much.

Bye,
FrankieS

Re: USAAF Claims 25th February 1944
 

Frankie - only the 55th FG, 354FG and 357FG made Penetration escort to the Regensburg/Munich targets.

Only the 354FG engaged as far south as Munich - so Gumm's damaged claim on a 109 sounds like he wounded the pilot (25Mi East ----> Muhldorf) who may have been fatally wounded in the fight..

All the 357 scores were from Augsburg to Regensburg and Schweinfurt area some distance away from Muhldorf - but it's possible he was hit up there and crashed on the way back to his base?

Regards,

Bill Marshall

Re: USAAF Claims 25th February 1944
 

Bill,

I'm not sure but i suppose the US pilots claimed for an air victorie on the place of the fight ? This off course doesn't mean it's place of crash. I believe claims lists were made with pilot's reports. So Gumm's claim was for a fight 25 miles from Munich. I don't know where the Me 109 crashes, perhaps could she return to its base.

Stephane Muret

Re: USAAF Claims 25th February 1944
 

Hi Bill and Stephane !

A different option could be that he was shot down
by gunners of the bomber stream.
I guess it's very difficult to find out the truth.

Thanks for your great efforts.

bye,
FrankieS

Re: USAAF Claims 25th February 1944
 

Stephane- you are right of course.

However, Frankie stated he was looking for claims near Muhldorf and only Gumm's damaged claim matches up for any Me 109 claim by a Mustang on that day. And of course bombers could have shot him down.

Regards,

Bill

Re: USAAF Claims 25th February 1944
 

Frankie,

I dont know but perhaps the Bom Groups involved in the mission have a website where you could ask them about gunners' claims for this day . Looking for an air gunner kill is really very difficult because sometimes lot of them claimed for the same plane...

Good luck.

Stef

Re: USAAF Claims 25th February 1944
 

Thank you Stephane,
... yes very difficult indeed.

Will be a lot of research and possibly never to be solved.
Have emailed the german communal administration
of the crash site to get some more info on
circumstances (exact time of crash, maybe eyewitness
accounts of air battle in the local archives ... if I'm
very lucky ;-) )

bye then
FrankieS

Re: USAAF Claims 25th February 1944
 

If you are going to check Bomb Groups I suspect you should look to 15th AF coming from south to Munich.

The 8th AF 3rd Division bombed Regensburg and the 1st Division bombed Augsburg. Neither route should have taken them over Munich and certainly not to the east of Munich.

Regards,

Bill

PS
I would still place my initial bet on Gumm even though he claimed only a damaged.. hits could have severely wounded the pilot but not hard enough to prevent an 'escape'.

On the other hand if you can find the 25 Feb Mission map for 15th AF and the track is on east side or directly over Munich there is an equal probability that he was shot down by them.