Soviet victory claims before 22 VI 1941?
 

I wonder how many victories did claim Soviet airmen before 22 VI 1941?

There were several small or big air war:

in Spain 1936-1938: I can estimate at least over 210, or even more victories up to 300?
in Chalchyn-Gol: there were about 650 victories.
in Poland IX 1939: several: about 10-15 victories.
in Winter War 1939-1940: there were about 650 credited victories
in China 1937-1940: maybe 100 or more?
in Rumunia in summer 1940: a few (below 10).

So: Soviet airman could attained about 1500-1700 credited victories before 22 VI 1941.

Any comments to above estimation?

Regards,
mw

Re: Soviet victory claims before 22 VI 1941?
 

Hello Mirek
FAF lost 53 a/c on combat ops for all causes during the Winter War, subtract AA and operational losses and add those which force-landed or crash-landed after air combat dam. but were repaired later, so you get real figure to “legitimate” Soviet kills during the Winter War.

Juha

Re: Soviet victory claims before 22 VI 1941?
 

This simple mean that entire Japan and Finland aviation was wiped off....

Re: Soviet victory claims before 22 VI 1941?
 

I have never heard of the air battles against Romania in 1940 ?

On the other hand there is one war missing, the civil war between Red and White Russians (and connex conflicts, with Poland for example) but that is maybe too early for you. Both sides used aircraft and there were air battles.

Re: Soviet victory claims before 22 VI 1941?
 

Deeply sorry, but I think you are for a long time ago have undrestanand and more then well know, that one thing is claimed and credited victory (by own units commanders and superiors). Second thing is real damage - destruction of plane.
Of course in my estimation I do not count credited victores as a total, and any real loss for enemy side. In reality you should dived claimed and credited vicores by 3-4 and sometiems even more (in Winter War about 7-8 factor) to get real losses on oposite side.

I exactly know real loss of FAF (total losses+ damaged), JAAF over Chachyn-Gol, about Polish Losses in IX 1939, some victories over China (about 80). There were a few air clashes over Rumiania in summer 1940 (if I right rember Sovitet fighters shot down 1xPZL P.7 and 1 x IAR-37 or 39)

So in above calculatin I only think about claimed + credited Soviet victories, but not about real losses done to oposite side. These are two very separate things.

Regards,
mw

BTW
FAF's total losses of course were much higher (destroyed + damaged)then 53. The last figure is if I am right remeber only shot down by Sovite (in air combat and A/A) and total losses excluding damaged and later repaired.

Re: Soviet victory claims before 22 VI 1941?
 

Hello Mirek
my source might have been a slightly off, I counted 56 lost in operations plus 4 planes of Swedish volunteers (F 19) for all causes, incl take off accidents even one Ripon which went through ice during a take-off but I didn't have time to check if all accidents happened during operational flights, so the figures are max for lost a/c during operational flights. Of course there were also losses during training, test and transfer flights.

Juha

Re: Soviet victory claims before 22 VI 1941?
 

Japanese losses are officially 162 aircraft + 220 "under repair" during the Nomohan incident.
Those figures may be underestimated : for instance only 1 ki-10 was offically lost, but it is none that at least 3 were lost

Re: Soviet victory claims before 22 VI 1941?
 

Juha, according to "Gloster Gladiator & Hawker Hart: in combat with Swedish voluntary Wing F19, Finland 1940", Swdish lost 3 Hawker Hart in combat on Jan 12 1940, 1 Gladiator in combat on Jan 23 1940, 1 Gladiator lost in accident on Feb 20 1940 and another Gladiator lost in accident on Mar 10 1940. Total 6 aircrafts.

Re: Soviet victory claims before 22 VI 1941?
 

Hello Mars
well, the last Glad was lost during a post maintenance test flight, so it was not lost in ops, but I might have missed one loss. I cannot find my best source of F 19 losses just now to check the 20 Feb loss, which might well have been happened at the end of a combat sortie.

Juha

Re: Soviet victory claims before 22 VI 1941?
 

Juha, I was responding to your comments about "plus 4 planes of Swedish volunteers (F 19) for all causes"