Seeking ID of 2./KG55 He111P, G1+GK, FL in N France probably during May, 1940
 

Hello,

Trying to ID this a/c, He111P G1+GK, that is believed to have FL in France on one of two dates during May, 1940. Peter Cornwell has evaluated these photos as probably showing one of two incidents. Now I need someone who knows the terrain in these areas, or has knowledge of this FL, possibly with additional photos that have captions for place or date, to help nail this one down. Note that the second photo shows that the swastikas had been souviner-ed, so this landing site initially had to have been behind Allied lines.

http://ihra.smugmug.com/photos/i-SV9...-SV9ptqK-M.jpg
http://ihra.smugmug.com/photos/i-RVp...-RVpwSzF-M.jpg

"10 May 1940 2./KG55 Heinkel He111P-2. Shot down by fighters and forced-landed near Illange, south of Thionville, 6.30 a.m. BO Fw Ernst George killed, BF Uffz Hermann Grosskreutz captured badly wounded – died later, BM Fw Engelbert Beisser and FF Fw Walter Dreffkorn both captured unhurt – later released. Aircraft 100% write-off."

Note: this is around 10 miles S. of the Luxembourg border.

"26 May 1940 2./KG55 Heinkel He111P-2. Shot down over Tannay, north-east of Le Chesne, by of GC I/5 during sortie to Vitry-le-François 12.10 p.m. BF Uffz Wilhelm Strothoff killed, FF Uffz Hans Appelt, BO Uffz Wulfila Fulda, BO Gefr Helmut Czaja, and BS Gefr Alfred Beigel all captured – later released. Aircraft 100% write-off."

Note: this is around 15-20 miles S. of the Belgium border.

Any help would be appreciated.

Regards,

Larry Hickey
EoE Project Coordinator

Re: Seeking ID of 2./KG55 He111P, G1+GK, FL in N France probably during May, 1940
 

Hi Larry,
I'm a bit confused by your inputs.
In my file the aircraft that came down at Illange on May 10 was aDo17Z of 4./KG2. A He111 of 1./KG55 came also down in/near Illange, but that was on the early morning of May 11.
My entry on this aircraft, mainly based on Arnaud Gillet's description in Victoire de Chasse Brittanique, is

May 10, 2./KG55 Heinkel He111P. Shot down by Hurricanes of No. 1 Sqn between Bar-le-Duc and Verdun and belly landed at 250m of the airfield of Buzy. BF Fw Ernst George and BM Uffz Hermann Grosskreuz killed, FF Fw Engelbert Beisser and BO Fw Walter Drefkorn captured. Aircraft G1+GK? a write-off. [VCB 35]


As indicated I'm not 100% sure about this being the G1+GK on your pictures, but is very likely. Note that the functions of the crew members from Gillet are different from the ones of Peter; I can't judge which are correct.

Regards, Pieter

Re: Seeking ID of 2./KG55 He111P, G1+GK, FL in N France probably during May, 1940
 

Pieter,

Thanx for your comments. I will have to defer to Peter Cornwell in replying to your questions.

Larry Hickey
EoE Project Coordinator

Re: Seeking ID of 2./KG55 He111P, G1+GK, FL in N France probably during May, 1940
 

Pieter,

As you surely know, the documentary evidence in this case is contradictory. The Lw NVM gives the date of loss as 11 May 1940 and (uncharacteristically) omits any reference to crew functions while the initial French 2º Bureau Report states ‘on 10 May around 6H.30’ and gives the location as ‘in the region of Illange’. A further French report repeats the date as 10 May 1940 but with the location now given as ‘near Buzy’ and includes the crew positions as stated by yourself. As Étain-Buzy is some 20 miles SW of Illange there was clearly some major disparity in the precise location & in the absence of any further reliable evidence I elected to stick to the latter. As for date, I took guidance from the VDK database that recorded the date of death of Ernst George as being 10 May 1940. GILLET appears to have resolved both issues of date & location but nowhere do I find any reference to the aircraft codes carried. Nevertheless, I should have paid more attention to the second French report for the correct crew positions.

So Larry’s question remains unanswered. Do the photos show BEISSER’s He111 down on 10 May 1940 or another?

We have the Do17Z of 4./KG2 down at Illange on 10 May 1940 but no He111 of 1./KG55 down there the following day. I suspect more confusion caused by the conflicting evidence already mentioned?

Thanks for the response.

Re: Seeking ID of 2./KG55 He111P, G1+GK, FL in N France probably during May, 1940
 

Hi Peter,
After re-checking all the accounts of Gillet, it seems all very conclusive that the description w.r.t. crew, timing and location as given above in my first mail is correct.
A few things then still bother me. The first is what on earth a I./KG55 bomber that attacked Avord was doing over Verdun (where it was attacked). Neuburg (its base) to Avord in a straight line passes way south of Nancy, and is nowhere close to Metz/Buzy/Illange. So this aircraft must have seriously swayed off course to arrive there. However, given all evidence apparently it did.
Secondly, you're probably right to suggest that the May 11 loss reported of 1./KG55 at Illange is likely a wrong interpretation of the NVM you quoted. Makes a lot of sense.
Then, strangely enough, in none of the eye witness reports quoted by Gillet the aircraft code is mentioned. So indeed, no certainty it was the G1+GK.
If we then take the NVM which states 1./KG55 (on May 11) it can mean two things: either the aircraft at Buzy was 1./KG55 machine, in which case the code G1+GK would not match, or there was a loss on May 11 but then likely not at Illange. Since the names in the 11-5 NVM entry seem to be the same, the first option is more likely.

Overall I agree it is not yet entirely solved with respect to matching the code to the aircraft.

Regards, Pieter

Re: Seeking ID of 2./KG55 He111P, G1+GK, FL in N France probably during May, 1940
 

Hello Pieter and Peter,

It might help if someone in France who is familiar with the area around Buzy could confirm that the countryside looks similar to that area. Of course, anyone with more information and photos of this specific incident would be most helpful. Given the good condition of the wreck, there must have been a lot of photos taken of this crash.

Who can provide further help? This one is solvable, and might solve a further loss incident if we can unravel this mystery.

Regards,

Larry Hickey
EoE Project Coordinator

Re: Seeking ID of 2./KG55 He111P, G1+GK, FL in N France probably during May, 1940
 

Pieter,

The NVM documents the loss of the BEISSER crew on 11 May 1940 (sic) but the unit is given as 2./KG55 (confirmed by their EKMs) not 1 Staffel as you say. Thus, the photos of G1+GK could be their machine.

Re: Seeking ID of 2./KG55 He111P, G1+GK, FL in N France probably during May, 1940
 

Hi Peter,
yes you're as always correct. Don't know where the 1. Staffel came from. Must have been a typo in my file. Apologies for the confusion.
So the G1+GK hypothesis still stands rather firmly but unconfirmed.

Regards, Pieter

Re: Seeking ID of 2./KG55 He111P, G1+GK, FL in N France probably during May, 1940
 

Hello,

Engelbert Beisser was my uncle. He died in 1943.

H.

Re: Seeking ID of 2./KG55 He111P, G1+GK, FL in N France probably during May, 1940
 

Hi, I'm updating my records for KG55 losses at the moment, I would be particularly keen to learn whether any confirmation as come to light confirming the code for Dreffkorn's a/c as being G1+GK?
I would also be interested in obtaining the EKM No's for the crew if anybody could oblige from the NVM report.

Best regs,
Steve.