Wolfgang Spate's 1941 claims?
 

Can anyone tell me about Wolfgang Spate's 1941 claims while serving with JG54. I looked through Tony Wood's list and found none. Hopefully someone with one of J. Prien's books or some other source can provide it.

Re: Wolfgang Spate's 1941 claims?
 

His first claim was against RYAF 8. Bomber Wing Blenheim at cca.12.00 on 6 April 1941 near Pecs in Hungary. Five Blenheims were claimed by Luftwaffe fighters and exactly five were lost.

Re: Wolfgang Spate's 1941 claims?
 

Well, if you compare the Bf 109 and Bf 110 claims with the crashing places and with the Hungarian AA claims, it is not so evident (at least, to me...)

Re: Wolfgang Spate's 1941 claims?
 

well, true, I forgot about the Hungarian AA claims. Two were claimed by Bf 109's and three by Bf 110's. What did the AA gunners report?
Boris

Re: Wolfgang Spate's 1941 claims?
 

Hi! Here is info that might help You:

7-4-1941 0:00:00,"Ltn.","Wolfgang","Spдte","5.","JG 54","Blenheim","Fьnfkirchen","12.00"," 1st"," 173","yes","Prien/Bock",,,
23-6-1941 0:00:00,"Oblt.","Wolfgang","Spдte","5.","JG 54","SB-2","NE Insterburg","10.07"," 2"," 200","yes","Prien/Bock",,,
23-6-1941 0:00:00,"Oblt.","Wolfgang","Spдte","5.","JG 54","SB-2","NE Insterburg","10.07"," 3"," 202","yes","Prien/Bock",,,
27-6-1941 0:00:00,"Oblt.","Wolfgang","Spдte","5.","JG 54","SB-2","E. Dьnaburg","13.35"," 4"," 211","yes","Prien/Bock",,,
27-6-1941 0:00:00,"Oblt.","Wolfgang","Spдte","5.","JG 54","SB-2","E. Dьnaburg","13.50"," 5"," 215","yes","Prien/Bock",,,
30-6-1941 0:00:00,"Oblt.","Wolfgang","Spдte","5.","JG 54","DB-3","E. Kreuzburg","06.47"," 6"," 228","yes","Prien/Bock",,,
30-6-1941 0:00:00,"Oblt.","Wolfgang","Spдte","5.","JG 54","DB-3","N. Dьnaburg","12.30"," 7"," 241","yes","Prien/Bock",,,
30-6-1941 0:00:00,"Oblt.","Wolfgang","Spдte","5.","JG 54","DB-3","W. Dьnaburg","14.50"," 8"," 255","yes","Prien/Bock",,,
2-7-1941 0:00:00,"Oblt.","Wolfgang","Spдte","5.","JG 54","DB-3","E. Tschalkino","18.30"," 9"," 282","yes","Prien/Bock",,,
6-7-1941 0:00:00,"Oblt.","Wolfgang","Spдte","5.","JG 54","I-16","ESE Pleskau","10.45"," 10"," 307","yes","Prien/Bock",,,
7-7-1941 0:00:00,"Oblt.","Wolfgang","Spдte","5.","JG 54","DB-3","NE Ostrow","18.55"," 11"," 324","yes","Prien/Bock",,,
8-7-1941 0:00:00,"Oblt.","Wolfgang","Spдte","5.","JG 54","I-18","Porchow","11.15"," 12"," 332","yes","Prien/Bock",,,
17-7-1941 0:00:00,"Oblt.","Wolfgang","Spдte","5.","JG 54","I-153","NW Љoltzy","06.30"," 13"," 345","yes","Prien/Bock",,,
17-7-1941 0:00:00,"Oblt.","Wolfgang","Spдte","5.","JG 54","DB-3","E. Samra-See","20.30"," 14"," 350","yes","Prien/Bock",,,
19-7-1941 0:00:00,"Oblt.","Wolfgang","Spдte","5.","JG 54","DB-3","SW Mschinskaja","17.30"," 15"," 360","yes","Prien/Bock",,,
19-7-1941 0:00:00,"Oblt.","Wolfgang","Spдte","5.","JG 54","I-18","NE Wloschowo","19.08"," 16"," 362","yes","Prien/Bock",,,
25-7-1941 0:00:00,"Oblt.","Wolfgang","Spдte","5.","JG 54","DB-3","N. Werest","07.58"," 17"," 386","yes","Prien/Bock",,,
7-8-1941 0:00:00,"Oblt.","Wolfgang","Spдte","5.","JG 54","I-18","W. Korpowa","19.48"," 18"," 406","yes","Prien/Bock",,,
7-8-1941 0:00:00,"Oblt.","Wolfgang","Spдte","5.","JG 54","I-18","N. Korpowa","19.51"," 19"," 408","yes","Prien/Bock",,,
10-8-1941 0:00:00,"Oblt.","Wolfgang","Spдte","5.","JG 54","I-18","NE Poretschje","10.11"," 20"," 413","yes","Prien/Bock",,,
11-8-1941 0:00:00,"Oblt.","Wolfgang","Spдte","5.","JG 54","I-16","NE Poretschje","06.07"," 21"," 418","yes","Prien/Bock",,,
12-8-1941 0:00:00,"Oblt.","Wolfgang","Spдte","5.","JG 54","I-18","Kiepiek","17.50"," 22"," 433","yes","Prien/Bock",,,
16-8-1941 0:00:00,"Oblt.","Wolfgang","Spдte","5.","JG 54","I-18","NE Krasnogwardeisk","19.00"," 23"," 457","yes","Prien/Bock",,,
21-8-1941 0:00:00,"Oblt.","Wolfgang","Spдte","5.","JG 54","I-18","NE Puschkin","12.57"," 24"," 485","yes","Prien/Bock",,,
25-8-1941 0:00:00,"Oblt.","Wolfgang","Spдte","5.","JG 54","I-153","Kuplja","13.40"," 25"," 496","yes","Prien/Bock",,,
26-8-1941 0:00:00,"Oblt.","Wolfgang","Spдte","5.","JG 54","I-16","E. Poretschje","05.45"," 26"," 497","yes","Prien/Bock",,,
26-8-1941 0:00:00,"Oblt.","Wolfgang","Spдte","5.","JG 54","I-16","E. Poretschje","05.48"," 27"," 498","yes","Prien/Bock",,,
3-9-1941 0:00:00,"Oblt.","Wolfgang","Spдte","5.","JG 54","I-18","N. Michelowka","18.30"," 28"," 505","yes","Prien/Bock",,,
9-9-1941 0:00:00,"Oblt.","Wolfgang","Spдte","5.","JG 54","I-18","Leningrad","16.45"," 29"," 523","yes","Prien/Bock",,,
10-9-1941 0:00:00,"Oblt.","Wolfgang","Spдte","5.","JG 54","I-18","S. Leningrad","11.20"," 30"," 524","yes","Prien/Bock",,,
12-9-1941 0:00:00,"Oblt.","Wolfgang","Spдte","5.","JG 54","I-18","N. Krasnoje-Selo","13.00"," 31"," 536","yes","Prien/Bock",,,
19-9-1941 0:00:00,"Oblt.","Wolfgang","Spдte","5.","JG 54","I-18","NE Leningrad","09.20"," 32"," 557","yes","Prien/Bock",,,
21-9-1941 0:00:00,"Oblt.","Wolfgang","Spдte","5.","JG 54","I-18","S. Putilowo","11.50"," 33"," 559","yes","Prien/Bock",,,
21-9-1941 0:00:00,"Oblt.","Wolfgang","Spдte","5.","JG 54","I-18","N. Wswelowshski","17.30"," 34"," 560","yes","Prien/Bock",,,
23-9-1941 0:00:00,"Oblt.","Wolfgang","Spдte","5.","JG 54","I-16","NE Leningrad","08.40"," 35"," 563","yes","Prien/Bock",,,
26-9-1941 0:00:00,"Oblt.","Wolfgang","Spдte","5.","JG 54","I-18","Shicharjewo","08.35"," 36"," 571","yes","Prien/Bock",,,
26-9-1941 0:00:00,"Oblt.","Wolfgang","Spдte","5.","JG 54","I-18","N. Parogi","11.20"," 37"," 573","yes","Prien/Bock",,,
27-9-1941 0:00:00,"Oblt.","Wolfgang","Spдte","5.","JG 54","I-18","Ljubnitza","11.00"," 38"," 574","yes","Prien/Bock",,,
1-10-1941 0:00:00,"Oblt.","Wolfgang","Spдte","5.","JG 54","I-18","Polnowo","17.00"," 39"," 580","yes","Prien/Bock",,,
1-10-1941 0:00:00,"Oblt.","Wolfgang","Spдte","5.","JG 54","I-18","Polnowo","17.02"," 40"," 581","yes","Prien/Bock",,,
2-10-1941 0:00:00,"Oblt.","Wolfgang","Spдte","5.","JG 54","I-18","Ljubnitza","08.00"," 41"," 584","yes","Prien/Bock",,,
2-10-1941 0:00:00,"Oblt.","Wolfgang","Spдte","5.","JG 54","I-18","E. Waldai","08.12"," 42"," 586","yes","Prien/Bock",,,
2-10-1941 0:00:00,"Oblt.","Wolfgang","Spдte","5.","JG 54","I-18","E. Seliger See","14.30"," 43"," 591","yes","Prien/Bock",,,
2-10-1941 0:00:00,"Oblt.","Wolfgang","Spдte","5.","JG 54","I-18","E. Seliger See","14.35"," 44"," 593","yes","Prien/Bock",,,
7-10-1941 0:00:00,"Oblt.","Wolfgang","Spдte","5.","JG 54","I-26","SE Borowitschi","07.22"," 46"," 600","yes","Prien/Bock",,,
5-10-1941 0:00:00,"Oblt.","Wolfgang","Spдte","5.","JG 54","I-16","SE Waldai","08.10"," 45"," 594","yes","Prien/Bock",,,
7-10-1941 0:00:00,"Oblt.","Wolfgang","Spдte","5.","JG 54","I-18","NE Krestzy","17.10"," 47"," 604","yes","Prien/Bock",,,
10-10-1941 0:00:00,"Oblt.","Wolfgang","Spдte","5.","JG 54","I-26","Jam Chotilowo","10.17"," 48"," 609","yes","Prien/Bock",,,

P.S.
I-18 - MiG-3
I-26 - Yak-1

Re: Wolfgang Spate's 1941 claims?
 

Eugen, Thanks for the list of to Oct41. I'll have to wait until a time J. Prien's book comes out in english to get the rest. I did see one of the claims that he wrote about that maybe Andrey Dikov can give some info on. His 28th kill on 03.09.41 he thought the pilot might have been a VVS "Ace". He stated that this "I-18" pilot jumped the 4 BF-109's that he was in formation with and was hard to get behind. He said that the pilot lured him into the russian flak over Leningrad to get him shot off his 6 but hung so close they couldn't shoot until after he shot him down. He mentioned he was still having dreams about it months later.

Re: Wolfgang Spate's 1941 claims?
 

In course of research I've got an impression that Spate should have good real confirmation ratio (I had no goal to check him personally neither I checked all of his claims, but those ones I had a chance "to investigate" seemed rather reasonable).

As for LW pilots in 41 near Leningrad, who seems were more "reasonable" comparing with their comrades, I could recall Kageneck, Beisswenger, Schilling, Zweigart (extremely honest pilot!), Hannig, Spaete, Broennle, Ademeit and probably Scholz and Pohs.

On the other hand: Kempf, Ostermann, Phillip.

Re: Wolfgang Spate's 1941 claims?
 

Privet, Andrey!

You forgot to mention Nowotny.

Re: Wolfgang Spate's 1941 claims?
 

I already mentioned Nowotny as unreliable 'source' of claims in comparison with very strict Lt. Henkemeier in one of my recent previous posts on TOCH. They served both and simultaneously in 1.(Erg)/JG 54 and differed from each other obviously regarding claims.

Yes, only 1 and probably another one of his very first 10 claims can be confirmed by real losses (and in this case I can say that I researched every of his and Henkemeier's claims in detail).

Unfortunately Henkemeier perished in such pity circumstances. But probably fortunately for VVS keeping in mind his confirmation ratio.

Re: Wolfgang Spate's 1941 claims?
 

Andrey
Funny you mention Adameit, because on the old forum was posted an account of JG54 veteran, who claimed that Adameit claimed victories of his young wingmen as his very own.
Otherwise, well, there are no German combat reports for most cases, so how can we know this interpretation is correct?