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Nikita Egorov 14th February 2012 09:50

Re: Birth/Death details of non Ritterkreuz 50+ aces
Holtz landed on the muddy field to get his wingman, who was damaged by AA fire and crash landed nearby. He failed to take off because of the mud. Both were captured. Source, his interrogation protocole in TsAMO.

Kapper 14th February 2012 15:55

Re: Birth/Death details of non Ritterkreuz 50+ aces

Andreas Sterl - May 23rd, 1919 (Schönkirch/Bavaria, Germany) - November 28th, 1997 (Mitterteich/Bavaria, Germany)



Leo Etgen 14th February 2012 16:58

Birth/Death details of non Ritterkreuz 50+ aces
Hello Johannes

Not much but I can add that Karl-Heinz Cordes was born on 24 April 1920 at Greven and that Josef Quarda was born on 19 February 1923 at Wien. I hope this helps and I agree that any additional information on these successful yet little known aces would be great.



Maxim1 14th February 2012 20:16

Re: Birth/Death details of non Ritterkreuz 50+ aces

Originally Posted by Johannes (Post 142480)
If you can expalin to me how to get my list of 2550 aces and a total of 7805 claimers onto 12oclockhigh I'd do it so everybody could scrutise and question it, it would also be a good help reference I'm sure.

Hi Johannes.

I think the best way is to upload your archived files on a free file hosting (such as, hundreds of them) and then provide the link in appropriate thread, so everyone could download these archives.

It would be a great pleasure if you share your fantastic materials with 12oclockhigh community :)

Johannes 14th February 2012 20:40

Re: Birth/Death details of non Ritterkreuz 50+ aces

I'll get to work on it. I'll mention DKiG if awarded, trouble is that recording dates for this award end Autumn 1944, after that it's largely speculation!



Johannes 15th February 2012 07:03

Re: Birth/Death details of non Ritterkreuz 50+ aces
Hi Guys

Firstly thanks to Craig, Nikita and Leo. All those below are known to have received the DKiG with the exception of Hannig, Tangermann, Koller and Arnold, though there is always the post recording of DKiG awards, so relying on personnal accounts, or photographic evidence road to follow here. Josef Quarde also appears not to have been awarded the DKiG, if so a record for him.
Clearly below Sinner should have been given the Ritterkreuz given his were in the West, his leadership qualities, and that he was an honest claimer!

Rudolf Sinner 40(37 West, 3viermots) 31st December 1915-survived(still living I believe)
Gerhard Schneider 41 in the East 1920-5th January 1944
Günther Schwarz 41 in the East 1922-24th October 1943
Richard Quante 41 in the East 1912-14th August 1942
Rudolf Saborowski 41(6 West) ?-8th July 1942
Hans Boos 42 in the East 1919-21st April 1943
Hans-Günther Reinhardt 42(1 viermot) 18th March 1918-5th March 1989
Karl Otto Decker 42(2 West) 11th November 1915-27th August 1942
Karl-Heinrich Plücker 42 in the East 9th May 1921-10th May 1944
Norbert Hannig 42(1West) 12th September 1923-survived(still living)
Sigurd Haala 42 in the East 28th October 1919-16th June 1997
Wilhelm Theimann 42 in the East 1920-29th July 1943
Karlheinz Cordes 43+(2 viermots) 24th April 1920-survived
Alfred Dettke 44 in the East 10th March 1921-5th January 1943
Hans Frese 44(3West) ?-8th March 1944
Lothar Mai 44 in the East 1918-27th August 1943
Paul-August Stolte 44(8West, 4 viermots) 11th October 1916-10th October 1943.
Xaver Müller 44 in the East 29th November 1916-27th August 1943
Alfred Surau 45(4 viermots) 27th April 1916-14th October 1943
Georg Seidel 45 in the East 1916-6th March 1943
Kurt Tangermann 45 in the East 1921-survived(Rudorffer's Eastern front Wingman).
Wilhelm Küken 45 in the East ?-4th April 1944
Franz Daspelgruber 46(1 viermot) ?-16th July 1943
Kurt Ratzlaff 46 in the East ?-?
Otto Vinzent 46(1 West) 1915-4th January 1944
Günther Toll 47+(8 West, 1 viermot) ?-survived
Heinz Arnold 48(7 West, 5 viermots) 12th February 1919-17th April 1945.
Heribert Koller 48 in the East 10th December 1920-survived(still living).
Fritz Stendel 48+(7 West) 31st January 1914-22nd April 1996

Please remember be critical, and please,please do forward any additional information.

Kind Regards


P.S I should imagine that Cordes's logbook would make interesting reading!

ANDREAS 15th February 2012 09:56

Re: Birth/Death details of non Ritterkreuz 50+ aces
My contribution
I have also these pilots who meet the above criteria (40-49 vics and DK award ) :
August Muller, 49 vics, JG51
Gunther Toll , 49 vics, JG52
Heinz Fohl, 45 vics, JG52
Alfred Mikcsh, 43 vics, JG3, JG1.
Erhard Niese, 43 vics, JG77 and JG4
Josef Gabl, 42 vics, JG51,
Gerhard Reinhold , 41 vics JG5, JG7
Peter Bremer , 40 vics, JG54,
Rudolph Busch, 40 vics, JG51,
Walter Heitkamp, 40 vics, JG52
Bernhard Hessel 40 vics, JG51,
Berhard Lausch, 40 vics, JG 51,
Josef Schutte ,40 vics, JG3,
George Seckel, 40 vics, JG77, JG4,
Herman Segatz, 40 vics, JG26,JG5,JG51,JG1,
Erwin Stratznicky,40 vics, JG77, JG3 .

Furthermore there is a pilot named George Hahnlein of JG 54 with 40 vics but without DK.
Any more info about the above ?

Johannes 15th February 2012 10:43

Re: Birth/Death details of non Ritterkreuz 50+ aces
Hallo Andreas

Thankyou for your queries, answers are as follows:-

August Müller 34+ in the East DKiG(may have had more in 1945)
Heinz Föhl 1(just one) in the East!
Alfred Miksch 38(2 West, 1 viermot) DKiG
Erhard Niese 21(15 West, 6 viermots)
Josef Gabl 36+ in the East DKiG(is likely to have more in 1945, as very active at this time)
Gerhard Reinhold 36(2 viermots) DKiG
Peter Bremer 37 in the East DKiG
Rudolph Busch 26+(4 West) DKiG(may have made more claims in 1945)
Walter Heitkamp 28 in the East DKiG
Berhard Hessel 38 in the East
Berhard Lausch 36(5 West) DKiG
Josef Schütte 27 in the East DKiG
Georg Seckel 34(6 West, 2 viermots) DKiG
Hermann Segatz 32(12 West, 4 viermots) DKiG
Erwin Stratznicky 30(2 West)
Georg Hahnlein 18 in the East

Kind Regards


Nikita Egorov 15th February 2012 10:55

Re: Birth/Death details of non Ritterkreuz 50+ aces
Decker was also only captured on August 27, 1942. Date of death is still missing.

ANDREAS 15th February 2012 10:57

Re: Birth/Death details of non Ritterkreuz 50+ aces
Thank you for the immediate answer.
How one can explain the discrepancy in the numbers of kills?
Is it overclaiming, bottleneck in the confirmation procedures during the war, or is it really new data unearthed that changed established situations?

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