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Adam 25th May 2005 06:30

Claims identites
 
A stupid question.

On Tony Woods claim site there is a distinction made between Fortress IIs and B-17s. Am I correct in assuming that the former are RAF machines employed on Coastal Command duties while the latter are American bombers employed in, well.... bombing?

Thanks for the patience.

Adam

Laurent Rizzotti 25th May 2005 10:47

Re: Claims identites
 
Remember these are only claims of German pilots, that were often wrong.

We can only guess that those claiming Fortress instead of B-17 saw British markings.

The claims of Fortress known to me are the following:

Eight claims in 1941 are made against RAF Fortress I or Strilings. All were made before Pearl Harbor.

Almost all claims made latter were for USAAF B-17s or in areas where no RAF Fortress operated:
_ 2 Oct 1942 (1 claim) : battle against 8th Air Force USAAF
_ 21 Oct 1942 (5 claims) : battle against 8th Air Force USAAF
_ 18 Nov 1942 (2 claims) : battle against 8th Air Force USAAF
_ 28 Nov 1942 (1 claim) : battle against USAAF over Tunisia
_ 12 Dec 1942 (2 claims) : battle against 8th Air Force USAAF
_ 18 Dec 1942 (1 claim) : battle against USAAF over Tunisia
_ 3 Jan 1943 (1 Flak claim) : battle against 8th Air Force USAAF
_ 4 Feb 1943 (2 claims) : battle against USAAF over Tunisia
_ 17 Apr 1943 (2 claims) : battle probably against USAAF over Sicilia or mistaken types. No RAF Fortress in the area
_ 18 Apr 1943 (1 claim) : battle probably against USAAF over Sicilia or mistaken types. No RAF Fortress in the area
_ 9 May 1943 (2 claims) : battle probably against USAAF over Sicilia or mistaken types. No RAF Fortress in the area
_ 17 May 1943 (2 claims): 1st at 12.20 during battle against 8th Air Force USAAF, 2nd at 20h30 probably against Coastal Command Fortress
_ 18 May 1943 (2 claims) : battle probably against USAAF over Sicilia or mistaken types. No RAF Fortress in the area
_ 14 June 1943 (1 claim): Fortress FK212 of 220 Sqn RAF shot down over Bay of Biscay
_ 18 June 1943 (1 claim) : battle probably against USAAF over Sicilia or mistaken types. No RAF Fortress in the area
_ 29 Jun 1943 (1 claim) : battle against 8th Air Force USAAF
_ night of 17-18 Aug 1943 (1 claim) : battle against Bomber Command, mistaken identity
_ 19 Aug 1943 (4 claims) : battle probably against USAAF over Italy or mistaken types. No RAF Fortress in the area
_ 24 Aug 1943 (1 claim) : details needed
_ 16 Sep 1943 (3 claims) : battle against 8th Air Force USAAF
_ night of 27-28 Sep 1943 (1 claim) : battle against Bomber Command, mistaken identity
_ 5 Nov 1943 (1 Flak claim) : battle against 8th Air Force USAAF
_ night of 30-31 Mar 1944 (1 claim) : details needed
_ night of 11-12 Apr 1944 (1 claim) : details needed
_ night of 22-23 Apr 1944 (1 claim) : details needed
_ 24 Apr 1944 (4 claims) : battle against 15th Air Force USAAF. Reported as Fortress in official claims, as B-17 in unit listings.
_ 30 Apr 1944 (1 claim) : battle against 8th Air Force USAAF
_ 21 Jun 1944 (1 claim) : battle against Shuttle mission USAAF near East Front
_ 23 Jun 1944 (2 claims) : battle against Shuttle mission USAAF near East Front
_ 18 Sep 1944 (1 claim) : battle against USAAF near East Front
_ 20 Oct 1944 (1 claim) : battle near East Front, against USAAF or mistaken identity

Nick Beale 25th May 2005 11:30

Re: Claims identities
 
The use of "Fortress II" or "BF II" in a German report does not imply an RAF aircraft. These terms can be found in contexts (e.g. the KTB of Stab JG 77) where the Fortresses concerned are definitely American.

My guess is that the Germans became aware of the RAF designation for the B-17 before they learned the American one, it found its way into a recognition manual and some people stuck to what they knew while others later began using the USAAF designation.

Adam 27th May 2005 00:05

Re: Claims identites
 
Thanks for clearing that up.

Much appreciated

Adam


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