V1 interceptions in East Sussex
 

Can anyone direct me to accurate reports of where V1's fell short, landing in East Sussex around the Battle area?

On 6th August 1944 a Tempest crash landed near my village after what was believed an interception of a V1 which presumably then exploded and damaged his aircraft. He didn't bale out, he didn't turn off the engine or lower the undercarriage so my thinking is that the explosion incapacitated him.

To my current knowledge there were only two V1's that came down close to our village, one which left several impact craters does seem to fit with a mid air explosion, but was on 1st August, so not the one he intercepted.

I can't find the date for the second, and that did explode as the roof of our Memorial Hall was damaged and took many years of arguing for War Reparation funding to be paid.

Neither of these therefore fit with the date or a mid air explosion, but I can't trace a third V1, hence my appeal for any experts out there for better information on V1 crash sites, preferably with dates.

Any suggestions, please? Looking to commemorate the event this year.

Re: V1 interceptions in East Sussex
 

Here is some information. Click on the map to view it clearly.

https://terrorfromthesky.com/2014/02...map-1944-1945/

And some additional information:

https://blog.nationalarchives.gov.uk/blog/doodlebug/

https://www.amazon.com/Doodlebugs-Ro.../dp/187233721X

https://www.amazon.com/V1-Flying-Bom.../dp/1780962924

Re: V1 interceptions in East Sussex
 

Further information about the pilot.


https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/AWM2016.2.317/

Re: V1 interceptions in East Sussex
 

Thanks both and whilst they are about the V1 campaign, it doesn't give details on ones that fell in East Sussex.
The AWM last Post ceremony (and his name screened over the front) are known to me and now also to his relatives in Australia who have provided in depth background and photos etc, plus ORB for 3 Sqdn at Newchurch.

It's because I would like a commemoration in the village that I need more precise details, as it seems that the V1 he was seen by his fellow pilot attacking (but not the result) MAY have been one that he directed away from the village.
I currently know of only two, one which had exploded mid air was not on the date that Mackerras was killed.
The other did explode with considerable force close to our Memorial Hall sufficient to badly damage the roof and took many years to have the reparation paid by the Government.
What I DON'T know is the date of that second V1 and as it exploded it doesn't seem to have been attacked by cannon fire which usually caused a mid air explosion such as may have caused the Tempest to crash.
Wing tipping tended not to be a 3 Squadron practice, unless all ammo exhausted but I'm told burning ammunition was being fired over a nearby road, so hadn't been exhausted (unless guns jammed).
So I need to find a V1 near our village on 6th August, and only to have two candidates.
One which did explode but on 1st August, and one which exploded on the ground on a date unknown.
Or was he hit by a proximity fuse AA shell from the nearby coastal batteries?
The records don't credit him with a V1 on 6th August (not surprising as he couldn't file a claim, and his fellow pilot didn't see what happened.
The priest conducting his burial did tell relatives attending that "he would be credited with destroying a V1" but that could either just be a soothing platitude, or from what he had been told.....
There is a rough sketch map of East Sussex (more akin to "Spot the Ball") which does show two sites around Ninfield and I have rough ideas of both crash sites, but not dates.

It's the hope of tracing who would record these the Royal Observer Corps, Police etc.
Village memories are sketchy, and History Group don't have anything more specific.

Re: V1 interceptions in East Sussex
 

You might check Brian Cull's book Diver! Diver! Diver! which lists all claims against V-1s (in the air) and all losses to attempts to destroy V-1s.

Enjoy!

Frank.

Re: V1 interceptions in East Sussex
 

In the above book, Brian wrote: "Flt Sgt Don Mackerras RAAF (14 Divers of which three shared) was killed when his Tempest JN759 spun into the ground at Minfield in Sussex during an anti-Diver patrol. He had apparently been attempting to tip a flying bomb with his wingtip."

Brian is a contributor here, with the current account BrianC, so maybe you can ask him directly how he reached the above conclusion.

Do you have a time for the crash ? From existing claims reported in the book, there seem to have been two periods of firing, between 1320 and 1400 hrs and between 1700 and 1700 hrs. The German were using V-1 by firing more or less coordinated salvoes to overwhelm Allied defenses, and in this day they so probably launched two waves of V-1 in daytime (more at night, where they were less concentrated).

Best regards

Re: V1 interceptions in East Sussex
 

Frank, thanks, have the book and Mackerras was patrolling with Dryland (later killed as test pilot for Meteor IV).
The situation is confused as family were given several versions, and I don't see any reference to a V1 that Mackerras was seen by Dryland in pursuit of.

Tipping a V1 doesn't seem to tie in with Mackerras making no attempt to bale out or drop the landing gear which is more likely if a failed tip caused damage to the aircraft but not to him. The lack of preparation seems to indicate that he was incapacitated, presumably from flying through the debris of a V1.

Thanks but looks as if it will have to be Police Records as I don't know what became of any ROC logs.

Time of crash given as 13:36 patrolling with Dryland.
I believe I have contacted Brian but no further info - and it's Ninfield, there is no Minfield in Sussex- that's why the details have been overlooked for so long and only when I accidentally mistyped M instead of N that this crash came to light. Thanks, perhaps I'll check again with Brian

Re: V1 interceptions in East Sussex
 

Hi guys

I'm afraid that I am unable to add any further information.

Please note that when I was researching DIVER DIVER DIVER there was no master list to work from (or if there was then I was no aware). All tabulations were compiled by me, hence the odd typo. Combat reports were the prime source.

Best of luck with the investigation.

Cheers
Brian

Re: V1 interceptions in East Sussex
 

Thanks Brian, I think that's what you told me on first enquiry.
Minfield is the typo, it's corrected later in the ages of the report but the mistype has been quoted so much it was hard to track it down. The AWM files do have both the mistype and the corrected spelling.
Dryland reported he saw Mackerras going after a V1 but not what became of it or Mackerras crash.
He still had ammunition so tipping wasn't necessary and the damage to the Tempest not only badly damaged his aircraft sufficient to cause a crash, but as he made no attempt to bale out, or lower the undercarriage and din't get out of the burning aircraft I have to assume that the explosion rendered him unconscious.
I can trace a V1 mid air explosion near the village on 1st August and a second exploded close to our Memorial Hall, damaging the roof, but I don't know the date, but it was a ground explosion. Perhaps he did tip that one, but how would that severely damage his aircraft?
But I don't have anything about a 3rd V1 near the village that exploded in mid air, so as to disable his plane.
There's an outside chance of a proximity fused AA burst but we're 4 miles inland and shouldn't have had AA fire that far inland.

I'll have to try ESRO

Re: V1 interceptions in East Sussex
 

If he spun out trying to tip a V1, he could have blacked out and hit the ground before he came to. That would also explain why he did not try to bale out or belly land.

Re: V1 interceptions in East Sussex
 

All things are possible, but I still feel that 3 Squadron "preferred" cannon rather than wing tipping, unless out of ammo, which is not the case from eye witness description......But I wasn't there so not dismissing.


For the purpose of the Parish Council, it would be "useful" if he "saved the village/school/church" by his interception of the V1, but unless I have proof (and the only V1 airburst is 1st August, and therefore NOT involved) then the interest is considerably less.
I know of one other V1 close to the village, but that was a ground explosion so difficult to see how that would have caused his Tempest to crash, and I don't know the date to link to 6th August.

I had hoped that we might have experts knowing V1 launches or fates but looks as if I'll have to see what ESRO at The Keep might divulge....

Re: V1 interceptions in East Sussex
 

Just thinking out aloud.


1. It may not have been 3 Squadron's usual attack profile to wing-tip a V-1 but if Mackerras was trying to save the village, could he have wing-tipped it to alter the V-1's course? If he opened fire would there have been the possibility of the V-1 wreckage still hitting the village?


2. V-1s are solidly built. Shooting at one - even without exploding the warhead - may result in a lot of solid wreckage and debris coming back at the attacking Tempest. Is there a possibility of accidental collision with a sizable chunk of V-1 wing or engine causing Mackerras to suffer an injury or lose consciousness? The rest of the V-1 would still continue flying long enough for it to impact the ground.



...geoff

Re: V1 interceptions in East Sussex
 

Geoff, interesting points....
i had tried consciously to avoid the "heroic pilot dies saving schoolchildren" type of scenario, but thinking about it, then it may well have been why he tried to tip the V1, especially if he saw its course and flight were descending onto the village. It could have been damaged crossing the AA belt and then started to fall towards the village...

I'd not considered that aspect, assuming it was a fully functioning V1 on its way to London, but a damaged one descending onto the village being tipped away then fits with the second V1 that did explode on the outskirts of the village. I just need to find the date for that, if it's the 6th August then Bingo! You've solved the conundrum of how it may have happened without there being a mid air explosion and consequent debris damage.

That's why I needed to ask, if there were Experts here who know where such information may be....
Looks like East Sussex Records Office to see if they have ROC or Police reports.....

Thanks, you've put forward a better "hero" concept for me to consider.

Re: V1 interceptions in East Sussex
 

It didn't need to be a damaged V-1 to head for the East Sussex village. A very effective disinformation campaign by double-agents working in England for the Allies were feeding V-1 target damage assessment to the Luftwaffe, indicating heavy damage when the V-1s were falling short. Successive waves of V-1s were then programmed with the same fuel burn times resulting in large numbers undershooting London. Though I'm not sure if it would have have any effect in early August.

Let's explore the mechanics of wing-tipping a V-1 to discuss possible scenarios as to why MacKerras may have crashed afterwards.

Wing-tipping can be done to any aircraft - not just V-1s. So if a RAF pilot came across a Fw190 after the pilot had baled out and the Fw190 was still flying straight and level, it could be made to crash by wing-tipping it. The technique is more effective against V-1s because the V-1s are directionally stabilized in flight by a internal gyroscope. Tipping the V-1 topples the gyroscope, causing essentially mechanical confusion as to which way is up, resulting in the V-1 crashing. It is less effective - for example - against the Fw190, as aircraft are inherently stable in some flight conditions, and thus the wing-tipped Fw190 may just change direction and re-establish a state of stable flight in a different heading.

Wing-tipping is carried out by placing your wing-tip under the other aircraft's wing-tip and using the boundary layer of moving air over your wing (e.g. Tempest) to nudge the boundary layer of moving air under the other wing (V-1). Ideally to prevent structural damage to your Tempest wing-tip, there should not be any mechanical contact between wing-tips, only between the boundary air layers.

What could go wrong?
V-1 interceptions are at reasonably high speeds - of the order of 400mph. Wing-tips will be bouncing up and down slightly in normal flight.

1. If the Tempest pilot mis-judges the wing-tip locations due to turbulent air, possibly the Tempest wing-tip is placed over the V-1 wing-tip. Downward movement of the overlapped wing-tips would cause the V-1 to roll towards the Tempest. V-1 collides with Tempest - pilot incapacitated - V-1 flies on to impact ground - Tempest stalls and crashes.

2.Tempest pilot places wing-tip correctly under V-1 wing-tip. Rolls away too enthusiastically - V-1 gyro topples and the V-1 goes on to crash. Tempest goes into a high speed stall. If the Tempest is at too low an altitude, it may impact the ground before the pilot can recover.

(High speed stall occurs when the aircraft is rolled in a turn too quickly and the wings are aligned vertically. The wing dynamic lift vector is at right angles to the wings, so pointed sideways with no force opposite to the weight. If left in this state too long - possibly mere seconds - the momentum of flight is overcome by the weight downwards with no restoring lift force upwards. The aircraft stalls, possibly entering a spin and crashes.)

3. Mechanical damage to Tempest wing due to collision with V-1 wing or excessive applied force during wing-tipping. Loss of a chunk of Tempest wing at high speed, causing unplanned roll motion, resulting in high-speed stall, spin, crash.



Hopefully I haven't just given you some red herrings to set you off in the wrong direction.
...geoff

Re: V1 interceptions in East Sussex
 

No, I don't think they're red herrings but a plausible explanation as to why no third V1 (the mid air exploded V1 was on 1st August with no damage to property, so wrong date) and the only other known was a ground impact causing damage to buildings and thus not a mid air explosion which is what I thought was needed to damage the Tempest.

Your very detailed descriptions of wing tipping and its consequences makes the second V1 plausible - IF I can correlate that to the 6th August.

Not only that, but it gives a good reason for not using cannon, as overshoots could have impacted the village and wing tipping required to steer the V1 away from the village.

Without becoming too melodramatic, it does appear that he could have sacrificed his life to save lives in our village - once by refraining to use cannon fire and the second by tipping the V1.

Thanks for the insights

Re: V1 interceptions in East Sussex
 

https://ww2db.com/battle_spec.php?battle_id=340#3


6-Aug-1944

"...Anti-aircraft batteries along the southern British coast were in action throughout the day, bringing down V-1 flying bombs; the beaches along the coast at Folkestone and Hythe, Kent, England, United Kingdom were becoming littered with wreckage from the bombs. The fighter squadrons were busy too with the Polish 316 squadron bringing down 9, mostly behind the coastal anti-aircraft guns near Hastings, Sussex. Flight Sergeant Don MacKerras RAAF was killed when his Tempest V fighter spun into the ground whilst he was on patrol; he had attempted to tip a flying bomb over with his wing tip but collided with the missile, losing his wing. ..."


Not in my area of knowledge to be able to verify but interesting, as they note that MacKerras collided with the V-1.
...geoff

Re: V1 interceptions in East Sussex
 

Geoff: That's most helpful and you must have been scouring rams of records.
The significant new information is regarding the Tempest losing a wing, which I haven't known of previously. But someone must either have seen it happen or described the crash site as a Tempest minus a wing, not torn off in the landing....

I do sincerely appreciate the effort you have gone to over this - Thanks

Re: V1 interceptions in East Sussex
 

When did the Germans install the anti-tipping system in the V-1?

Re: V1 interceptions in East Sussex
 

Hi Geoff

Thanks for pointing out the V-1 article on ww2db site. I believe much of the information has been extracted from DIVER! DIVER! DIVER!. I have no objection but have written to the author of the article to acknowledge accordingly.

Cheers
Brian

Re: V1 interceptions in East Sussex
 

Icare9:
No worries, but I can't take much credit for an hour or so a week of net surfing with different V-1 key words via Mr Google.

Kutsha:
What do you understand as an "anti-tipping system"? Something like a more robust gyroscope or multiple gyroscopes to recover from tipping, etc?

Brian:
Howdy. I haven't dug my copy of Diver, Diver, Diver from it's temporary storage box; but are you able to confirm whether MacKerras did in fact lose a wing in a V-1 collision or was that just descriptive report writing in the records, ORB, etc?


...geoff

Re: V1 interceptions in East Sussex
 

Dr Dave Sloggett, is/was an Alan Tayler Research Fellow, University of Oxford. A short glance at the Oxford website now shows him as a 'Mathematical Institute Impact Advisory Fellow'. His book, published in 2014, "Drone Warfare - The Development of Unmanned Aerial Conflict", refers to Don is on page 25. Simply states Don lost his life trying to tip a V1.

This information must have an original source that I have yet to trace. I didn't see it referenced in Diver!3.
The interest I have is that the village seems to have had only 2 V1 incidents, a mid air burst that scattered debris in a field near the Church and another ground explosion which damaged the Memorial Hall roof. The mid air was apparently on 1st August as noted after the funeral of a village lad electrocuted when trying to tether a runaway barrage balloon (other lads were helping but he didn't let go in time and was blown into HT cables nearby). Don crashed on 6th August and has not been credited with a V1 "kill" on the day he died. He'd already had claims for involvement in some 14 V1 kills, but not the final one. Photos exist showing men sitting in several impact craters, but not the "typical" single large blast crater.
I'd tried to ignore "heroic airman gave his life saving...." aspect, but my feeling, after reviewing all I have available, including one eyewitness to the crash site, is that he didn't use his cannons, possibly because any overshoots would have hit our village, so he resorted to wing tipping the V1. Apparently the V1 wing or part broke off, possibly hitting the Tempest and rendering Mackerras unable to bale out, or lower the undercarriage before hitting the ground to the west of the village, the V1 exploding in woodland close to the east of the village not far from our Memorial Hall. He had relatives in Croydon, which received the most V1's so had a personal interest in stopping V1's. That the V1 was so low would indicate perhaps that it had been damaged by the nearby coastal AA (proximity fuse?) and was thus heading for the village on the ridge. Choosing to tip the V1 rather than open fire and possibly cause casualties on the ground (it was a Sunday, so more people about) cost him his life.

But, 75 years on, I haven't any concrete proof, just that the facts are that he did not fire at the V1 (why?) as exploding cannon shells in the wreckage were firing across a nearby road. Why was he so low as not to be able to bale out?

So I'm anxious to trace an original first hand source for the wing tipping of the V1 and/or the specific date of the 2nd V1 near the village. There is a sketch map of V1's falling in East Sussex which does show 2 "near" the village, but more "Spot the Ball" than precise locations, and no knowledge of any 3rd V1 at the village. That all points to the V1 to the east of the village and damaging the Hall roof as being on 6th August.

Re: V1 interceptions in East Sussex
 

Not gyros to recover from a tipping maneuver by an a/c but if the V-1 deviated from its flight attitude by a specific roll angle, the V-1 would explode.

Re: V1 interceptions in East Sussex
 

Hi Geoff and others

Just to let you know that the author of the V-1 article on ww2db did use my work as his prime source, and he will have the piece amended to acknowledge that fact.

Cheers
Brian

Re: V1 interceptions in East Sussex
 

Brian C: Appreciate the clarification, but if you were his primary source, from what did the phrase " Flight Sergeant Don MacKerras RAAF was killed when his Tempest V fighter spun into the ground whilst he was on patrol; he had attempted to tip a flying bomb over with his wing tip but collided with the missile, losing his wing. ..." originate?

I can't find anything that actually states he was seen to tip and the two craft collided, nor the date.

Sorry if I'm labouring the point, but this incident seems to have gone unnoticed in the village. I know of only 2 V1 incidents near the village.
One was a mid air burst on 1st August which left several impact craters, not one, corroborated by eyewitnesses attending a funeral at the adjacent Church, and another slightly to the north east which did explode on the ground and from the Memorial Hall Committee records it took until the mid fifties for reparation to pay for repairs.

Shooting at a V1 would probably result in an air burst, which a fighter might sustain damage flying through the debris, but a "tip" would usually send it to the ground to explode.

Don didn't use his ammunition, as that was seen to explode from his burning aircraft, and the other V1 is dated to 1st August, therefore I have to conclude that Don deliberately refrained from firing for fear of hitting people and property in the village, but by tipping the V1 he lost control too low to do more than perhaps choose a field.

If I can obtain "proof" of him tipping the V1 that would help convince our Parish Council that the event should be more formally commemorated this coming 6th August, 75 years on.