Using Ultra to research the Luftwaffe
 

Several months ago, a couple of people here asked if I would write a guide to using Ultra intelligence (deciphered signals) for Luftwaffe research.

I've finally done it and it's now posted on the Ghostbombers website.

P.S. New pages on the site will be designed for a screen 1024 pixels wide instead of 800.

Re: Using Ultra to research the Luftwaffe
 

Well done Nick. I wish I'd have had that info from you available when I was writing "the Production Log"...would have saved me all the headaches of figuring it out for my self :-)

Re: Using Ultra to research the Luftwaffe
 

Thanks for this, Nick. As always, a wonderful job.
All the best,
George

Re: Using Ultra to research the Luftwaffe
 

Hello,

Can anyone who has looked into this in detail tell me whether there is significant material available from this source that relates to the Luftwaffe during the 1940 period? My impression over the years is that ULTRA wasn't a particularly well-developed or useful intelligence source during that period. Can someone who has looked into this in detail give me their opinion about this?

Thanx,

Re: Using Ultra to research the Luftwaffe
 

Hi Larry, certainly the presentation of the material wasn't as well developed as it later became and I think it would take more work from a researcher to get something from it. I'm attaching my entire collection (really!) of 1940 Ultra messages to illustrate the point (from file HW5/4).

Re: Using Ultra to research the Luftwaffe
 

Hello,

Thanks for the posting and your comments Nick. I'd appreciate hearing from anyone who has spent some time going through the ULTRA info for the 1940 period. This shows that there is perhaps some meat in there, although it will obviously much more limited than ULTRA was able to provide later.

Regards,

Re: Using Ultra to research the Luftwaffe
 

I've just amended the article on my website to include an illustration of an Ultra message header.

Re: Using Ultra to research the Luftwaffe
 

That's a good guide. From my own work with the files, I think you could (if you felt like it) add something on HW13 (the intel summaries), and I would add that in HW1 sometimes a lot of actual messages have been removed, and only the blue cover sheet is left.

I would also add that anyone who wants to work with HW5 from 1941 onwards should be prepared. The files are simply massive, and take an awful lot of time to go through. I requested a bulk order two weeks ago, and shouldn't have bothered. If you can get through 6-8 folders in one go (photographing, not studying in detail), you are doing well.

To clarify - I received the bulk order (Kew staff is really great in accommodating what borders on unreasonable requests!), but the 30 files were simply too much for me to go through.

All the best

Andreas

Re: Using Ultra to research the Luftwaffe
 

Hello Andreas,

In order to prepare a visit/multiple visits to the National Archives, I wonder whether you can be more specific about two questions:

- the (average!) number of pages with decripts for, let us say, a week?
- the number of pages that can be done by using a digital camera?

Since the few examples I have seen from HW 5 stuff does reveal a lot of Werkenummer, so far unknown/not known from German sources, it would enhance that knowledge tremendously, especially also for your 1944 Project.

Hoping to hear from you ! All the best, Marcel Hogenhuis (Venlo Airfield in WW-2)

PS. What I noticed from the Summarische Verlustmeldungen is that they copied the errors of the (detailed) daily loss reports from the Luftflotten into it. In some cases I was able to discover that an alleged I./NJG 1 loss was in fact an aircraft of the I./NJ-Schule 1 or I./JG 1.

Re: Using Ultra to research the Luftwaffe
 

In 1944-45 files usually cover two days' messages each (one day each during Summer 1944, however). I've never counted the pages but I think that a two-day file would have maybe 300-350 pages.

Using a camera, I can get through about six or seven two-day files in a full day. You could definitely speed up the photography by using one of the camera stands provided but you still have to read the pages to look for things that are of interest to you - something that becomes faster with practice. You gradually learn the "language" of the decrypts.

Note to Andreas: all the messages in HW1 should also be in HW5, so there is a "back-up copy" if something is missing from HW1.

Re: Using Ultra to research the Luftwaffe
 

This thread seems to be full of experienced HW researchers so I am hoping someone might be able to fill me in on this wonderful resource as it exists today at Kew. 20-25 years ago I read in detail and took reams of notes from every one of the 50,000+ PRO DEFE 3 ULTRA signals to the field commands that were microfilmed in the late 1970's by Clearwater Publishing (Tampa, Florida). So here are a few questions about the HW collection as it exists today:

1) Has the British National Archives done anything about microfilming (or microfiching) the great mass of new ULTRA material released for public use beginning around 1995?

2) Huge numbers of avid U.K. Luftwaffe enthusiasts have been busy photographing the HW collection with their digital cameras for a number of years now. They take these photos home, use what information they need and then, presumably, file them away on a CD or such. Are any of these enthusiasts attempting to sell copies of these digitally photographed ULTRA messages so those of us not able to pop in and out of the National Archives at will can perhaps buy them?

3) There are a few (very, very few!) oddball individuals like yours truly who are interested in more than just Werknummern, Stammkennzeichen and who-shot-who down. I, me, we would be most interested in those intercepts that concern the Luftwaffen-Bodenorganisation units that associate them with locations, movements, activity, personnel strength and the like, this of course including signals units (Luftnachrichten-) and the units of the Flakartillerie. My assumption here is that the higher level discourse at Fliegerdivision, Fliegerkorps, Luftfotte and OKL level was in the DEFE 3 series or extracted to the Sunset summaries that are already available here in the North American colonies.

Any information will be much appreciated.

Thanks,

Larry

Re: Using Ultra to research the Luftwaffe
 

@Nick

That's how I got into HW5, I started on HW1, and ended up missing the removed papers, and the helpdesk staff pointed me towards HW5.

@Larry (Hi!)

AFAIK only naval intercepts are on microfilm.

Unfortunately for you, I think a lot of the ground stuff may have gone over phone wires instead of radio, so I would guess there is less of it. But that is really just a guess.

As for making pictures available, I'll probably do that when I have finished the book, assuming by then bandwith has become reasonably cheap. :)

@Marcel

I know nothing about 1944, I am afraid. I concur on the volume you can get through in a day, based on 1941 experience. With 6-7 folders (say, up to 1,500 images - I use a digital reflex) you are better off NOT doing a bulk order, but instead booking a camera stand, in my view.

All the best

Andreas

Re: Using Ultra to research the Luftwaffe
 

Thanks for your reply, Andreas. I was hoping for something a bit more encouraging but I must admit that your news is pretty much what I was expecting.

As for the non-flying units of the Luftwaffe, their exposure in ULTRA was extensive but, as you noted, perhaps not quite as extensive as it was for the flying units. But every little bit helps and I was hoping at least some of the HW material might have found its way into a transferable media format by now.

Larry

Re: Using Ultra to research the Luftwaffe
 

Hello Nick, Andreas and Larry,

First of all thanks for all your answers, though discouraging these are about the speed of processing all those pages. Am I correct that with some decent equipment (read: digital camera and those camera stand) it should theoretically be possible to process a month of reports in a week?

Though it might seem that one only take pictures of documents with relevant info, the speed of processing seems much lower compared with 'blindly' taking pictures of each page, regardless their content.

Larry: I do care about the ground units too (!!!), because one of the remaining blanks in my knowledge of Venlo airfield in WW-2 are the Flak-units involved with the airfield air defense, the Lw. Berge unit (if any), Landesschützenzüge and the companies of the Fliegerausbildungs Regiment and their respective commanders.

Well, at least it is clear that those HW5 files could disclose these answers and the help guide that Nick has written will help a lot !

All the best and thanks for sharing, Marcel

Re: Using Ultra to research the Luftwaffe
 

You could do more than a month's files in a week, I'd say. You're right that just "blindly" photographing every page could well be quicker (but at the cost of much more time when you get home, spent identifying the things you actually want). Just take some big memory cards.

Re: Using Ultra to research the Luftwaffe
 

Marcel

It really depends on your focus. For example in my case, photographing only S.E. Europe and Italy & Africa intercepts (for every day they are broken into four separate geographic areas "Northwest Europe and Germany", "Eastern Front", and those two, plus German B-Dienst and Radio beacon/frequency info), I could get through one month in a day. No selection, I simply took pictures of everything. If you have restricted time at Kew, but more time at home, that's the way to go.

All the best

Andreas

Re: Using Ultra to research the Luftwaffe
 

I thought it might be useful to show other forum members a sample page of what the HW5 material looks like.

This is the cover and Page 1 of the Italy and Africa section of 4 November 41.

All the best

Andreas

Re: Using Ultra to research the Luftwaffe
 

Thanks for posting the two HW5 samples, Andreas. With the sole exception of Oblt. FUMKE and his unidentified Gruppe en-route to Vitebsk, all of the other intercepts in those two pages are exactly the sort of signals that were sent by Bletchley Hut 3 to the field commands and are currently in those 143 rolls of microfilm that I mentioned earlier. In fact, several of them looked familiar. I don't know which HW series currently incorporates those 50,000+ signals to the field commands, but evidently they replicate many of the HW5 signals. As the stream of daily decrypts made its way through Hut 3, the RAF officer intelligence analysts would mark those messages having tactical value for immediate retransmission to the commands in the field and off they went using the RAF's special key that employed some double encryption. For example, every X. Fliegerkorps daily report that was intercepted was among those forwarded to Middle East Command and one or two others in the Mediterranean.

L.

Re: Using Ultra to research the Luftwaffe
 

That's correct Larry. On the HW5 pages it is indicated by a code in a sidebar on the left which commands received the messages. For some messages it would be several commands, for others it would be none.

So my guess is that HW5 contains everything, while the material you looked at contained a subset judged to be of operational value to someone.

All the best

Andreas

Re: Using Ultra to research the Luftwaffe
 

Well not exactly. As I said on my website, what they sent to commands will speak of "an officer", the HW5 version will often give you his name. All the material I amassed from DEFE3, I covered again in HW5 because there is so much extra detail.

Re: Using Ultra to research the Luftwaffe
 

Hello guys,

Thanks for all these interesting (and much more encouraging!) info: a month of photographed files sounds a lot better than my previous fears.

As my keen interest is Venlo A/F in WW-2 in general and the history of the I./NJG 1 and other units operating from 'my' airfield in particular, I can focus on NW-Europe and Germany I guess, thus speeding up the photographing.

If I have grown up (an unlikely prospective) I will write a book about this I./NJG 1.

All the best, Marcel

Re: Using Ultra to research the Luftwaffe
 

At my last stay at NA, I scanned (with a camera) following files
AIR40/2687 and AIR40/2697, both mentioned at Nick Beales page: http://www.ghostbombers.com/various/...tra_3.html#top

I have organized each of them as a singel pdf. file.

Anyone care for a copy?

Olve Dybvig
www.luftwaffe.no

Re: Using Ultra to research the Luftwaffe
 

Nick, this line caught my eye.

"What you won’t have is Bletchley’s card index, thought to have been destroyed after the war, in which occurrences of names, places units and so on were logged and correlated."

Any idea why the card index would have been destroyed? Surely not for security reasons.

Re: Using Ultra to research the Luftwaffe
 

If there are Me 262's on it, I'd LOVE to see it.

Re: Using Ultra to research the Luftwaffe
 

There were rumours that the card index was kept in a basement at the Admiralty (and other locations were also suggested). If so, it is probable that it was destroyed at a later date. As far as I can find out, there ts no reliable 'paper trail'.
Churchill was quite clear in his instructions to protect the existance of ULTRA at all costs which ultimately is at the heart of our research problems today. It also gave problems to the Intelligence establishment in the 1950s as the best of the analytical equipment (including Colossus) had been destroyed in the same spirit. The details and references contained in the card index was a 'smoking gun' piece of evidence that the Allies were able to read machine encrypted radio/teletype messages and that was as big an issue in the Cold War as it had been in the Second World War. We now know that the secret was out, but that is hindsight.

Hope this helps,
Bruce

Re: Using Ultra to research the Luftwaffe
 

J.O. wrote in part:
Back in the 1980's I corresponded with the then director of the Air Ministry's Air Historical Branch (AHB) as well as with Professor Ralph Bennett, a retired wartime Bletchley Park veteran and Cambridge University professor and author who penned several books about the use of ULTRA in Normandy and in the Mediterranean. They both independently told me the same story, three years apart: the Air Index of some 300,000 large, multi-sided index cards was never copied or microfilmed and immediately after the war it was removed to a protected underground facility on the campus of Oxford University until 1948, at which time it was destroyed. Neither gentleman chose to elaborate beyond this simple explanation.

Was this an alibi they were given by the security people and ordered to repeat if asked sensitive questions? Perhaps, but the ULTRA secret had already been in the public domain for 14 or 15 years when I wrote to them, so probably would not have felt it necessary to conceal the truth any longer. But you can make the call.

What a shame, huh? What a marvelous historical resource the Air Index would have been because it would have allowed the researcher to go directly and immediately to a card or two covered his/her topic of interest and review each and every ULTRA intercept that applied to that topic, whether it be an aircraft, unit, place, person or what have you.

Larry

Re: Using Ultra to research the Luftwaffe
 

]

I agree exactly with your assesment. ULTRA was not the only intelligence asset that was being protected: the sophistication of Allied SIGINT as a whole, including the contribution of ULTRA material, was immensely sensitive and the UK/US collaboration in the early post-war period was balanced on a knife-edge as the differing priorities were emerging. Mainly due to the pressure to hold together the Empire, Britain’s intelligence community was making the most of her position as a base for US involvement in the coming confrontation with the USSR, and SIGINT was still growing as an industry. There was quite a bit of ‘political football’ on the subject and Britain, wrongly, thought that her strength in SIGINT was going to keep her place at the top table. It was of course too late, due to the actions of the Soviet moles in British Intelligence, but it took until the Suez Crisis for this to be accepted.

The card indexes were greatly detailed accounts of a defeated enemy, and evidence of the methods used to achieve that victory. The separate card system created and maintained by the Admiralty Submarine Tracking Rooms contained even more insights into the sources used, and apparently was cross-referenced to the GC&CS cards on many subjects. We would all do backflips now to get even a piece of that gold, but in the early ‘50s they must have been seen only as liability.

Bruce

Re: Using Ultra to research the Luftwaffe
 

Bruce wrote in part:
Nice analysis, Bruce, and right on the mark. I know. I was an insider. I graduated from the U.S. Army Southeast Signal School at Fort Gordon, Georgia, in April 1960 with MOS 722.10 (Cryptographer), was assigned to the White House Army Signal Agency (WHASA), then to the Department of the Army Cryptographic Branch in the Pentagon and for the next 4 years I worked with both on-line and off-line cryptographic systems. I continued in that and related fields until I left the service in late 1968. While at the Pentagon in particular, I was exposed almost daily to the operations of the ASA, USAFSS and the NSG, which were all mission-tasked by the NSA. The UKUSA signals intelligence relationship was a most sensitive one that we were constantly aware of, especially in the context of what could be shared and what could not. It was in the mid-1950's, I believe, that this relationship began to fray a bit around the edges, perhaps at the time of the Suez Crisis. Some things were withheld from us and, possibly in retaliation, the U.S. developed the NOFORN (No Foreign Dissemination) handling instructions for classified material at about that time. So it could well be that the Air Index tale I was told was just that: a tale.

Larry

Re: Using Ultra to research the Luftwaffe
 

Hi Olve,

I'm interested in a copy, see PM.

Regards,

Marcel

Re: Using Ultra to research the Luftwaffe
 

Ditto,
bregds
SES

Re: Using Ultra to research the Luftwaffe
 

Exactly that, I'm afraid. At least according to all the accounts of the survivors. And by demolishing the Colossus computers our leaders unwittingly threw away a whole postwar industry and had to start again a few years later.

Re: Using Ultra to research the Luftwaffe
 

I downloaded 2687 last night and did a bit of browsing in the document this morning. IMHO it is one of the most valuable documents on the last six month of the Luftwaffe I have seen for years, and it could lead to scores of posts and re-writing of old ones. Just to give one example: The NJGs are ordered to transfer a number of crews to JGs "in order to provide navigational assistance" on 4 December 1944, I wonder what bells were ringing in the allied intel community. Events, which have been discussed as possible myths are now confirmed. I can only recommend that you take Olve up on his kind offer.
bregds from a very grateful
SES
www.gyges.dk

Re: Using Ultra to research the Luftwaffe
 

Me too please Olve... please check your PM inbox :)

Cheers
Peter D Evans
LEMB Administrator

Re: Using Ultra to research the Luftwaffe
 

The last months of the Luftwaffe are a chasm of lack of knowledge. So, yes, I would also like a copy of your material, Olve. And, thank you for making this material available to us.
All the best,
George
george.hopp@yahoo.ca

Re: Using Ultra to research the Luftwaffe
 

Good morning Olve, i would also like a copy if possible.

Best regs,
Steve.

Re: Using Ultra to research the Luftwaffe
 

Hello Olve,

If anything concerning training units, I should be interested too.
Thanks.
Best regards.
Eric
ergui@club-internet.fr

Re: Using Ultra to research the Luftwaffe
 

Perhaps I did not read all detail but how can I can I get access to this documents. Do I hve to visit a Military Archive?

Thanks in advance
Rolf

Re: Using Ultra to research the Luftwaffe
 

Rolf, many of the Ultra decrypts discussed here are held at The National Archives, Kew, southwest London.

If you follow the link below to my website and go to the SAMPLEs page, you will find a couple of examples.

Hope this helps,
Bruce

Re: Using Ultra to research the Luftwaffe
 

All of the ones I wrote about are at the National Archives.

Re: Using Ultra to research the Luftwaffe
 

Thanks a lot for the prompt reply.

Rolf