JG2 losses 19/8/42
 

I'm trying to identify the times and cause of JG2's losses during the day, long and frustrating process, but wonder if anybody can add anything to the following?

I Gruppe:
Stab:
Fw190A-3 WNr. 0326 (Hptm E. Leie) -Crashed near Abbeville after being damaged by a Spitfire (133 Sqn?) 5 miles north of Dieppe at about 11.00. Pilot wounded

1.Staffel:
Fw190A-3 WNr. 7015 (Uffz K. Epsiger) -Crashed in channel after colliding with a Hurricane (174 Sqn-Comm E. Fayolle) at about 05.45. Pilot killed.

2.Staffel:
Fw190A-2 WNr. 0341 (Ltn R. Bohm) -Missing, probably shotdown following combat with fighters. Pilot killed.
Fw190A-2 WNr. 0320 (Ofw K. Schweikart) -Crashed near Dieppe, probably after air combat. Pilot killed.

3.Staffel:
Fw190A-3 WNr. 2186 (Uffz G. Brietz) -Crashed after being hit by AAA 4km north of Dieppe. Pilot killed.
Fw190A-2 WNr. 0208 (Uffz R. Robbers) -Suffered 50% damage after air combat and forcelanding near Dieppe (at 06.15 after clashing with either 602 or 611 Sqn's). Pilot wounded.

I Gruppe but unknown staffel:
Fw190A-2 WNr. 0231 (Pilot unknown) -Destroyed after forcelanding near Dieppe after air combat. Pilot ok.
Fw190A-3 WNr. 0479 (Pilot unknown) -Suffered 65% damage (written off?) after air combat and forcelanding near Dieppe. Pilot ok.
Fw190A-3 WNr. 0545 (Pilot unknown) -Suffered 65% damage (written off?) after air combat and forcelanding near Dieppe. Pilot ok.

II Gruppe:

4.Staffel:
Fw190A-2 WNr. 0226 (Gefr S. Eimers) -Missing after air battle (at 12.20-12.50?). Pilot killed.
Fw190A-3 WNr. 5527 (Ltn K. Spinner) -Destroyed after being damaged in air combat (at 12.20-12.50?) and then the pilot bailed out near Rouen. Pilot wounded.
Fw190A-3 WNr. 5529 (Uffz W. Urben) -Suffered 50% damage after air combat and forcelanding near Octeville. Pilot wounded.
Fw190A-3 WNr. 5518 (Uffz H. Schulze) -Suffered 20% damage after air combat damaged engine and forcelanding near Beauville. Pilot wounded.

6.Staffel:
Fw190A-2 WNr. 5216 (Uffz G. Geguns) -Missing after air combat. Pilot killed.
Fw190A-2 WNr. 5223 (Ltn F. Sommers) -Missing after air combat. Pilot killed.

(One probably lost at about 08.30 and one at about 13.25)

III Gruppe:

9.Staffel:
Fw190A-2 WNr. 5270 (Fw H. Pfeffer) -Destroyed after crashing near Petit Abbeville after air combat (at about 10.45?). Pilot wounded.
Fw190A-2 WNr. 2071 (Uffz W. Gunther) -Suffered 30% damage after air combat and forcelanding near Beauville (at about 10.45?). Pilot wounded.
Fw190A-?? WNr?? (Ltn J. Wuimbeller) -Damaged after making forcelanding after suffering engine failure. Pilot ok.

10.(Jabo) Staffel:
Fw190A-2/U3 WNr. 5299 (Ltn L. Wenger) -Suffered 30% damage after undercarriage collasped whilst taking off from Cean-Carpiquet. Pilot ok.
Fw190A-3/U3 WNr. ?? (Fw Blase) -Damaged by AAA whilst attacking warships (SGB8 and SGB9). Pilot ok.
Fw190A-2/U3 WNr. 0272 (Uffz Magarin) -Suffered 20% after being hit by AAA and forcelanding near Palvel after attacking warships (SGB8 and SGB9). Pilot ok.
Fw190A-3/U3 WNr. ?? (Ltn L. Wenger) -Damaged by AAA (or fighter?) at about 13.10. Pilot ok.

11.(Hohen) Staffel:
Bf109G-1 WNr. 10311 (Stfw E. Kley) -Damaged in air combat (at 07.15?) and then further damaged (80%) after overturning whilst trying to land at Le Treport. Pilot killed.
Bf109G-1 WNr. 14604 (Pilot unknown) -Suffered 60% damaged after air combat and forcelanding near Abbeville. Pilot ok.
Bf109G-1 WNr. 10313 (Pilot unknown) -Suffered 50% damage after forcelanding at Monchy-Breton with a technical problem. Pilot ok.

Thanks for any help.

Regards,

Steve

Wurmheller
 

Hi Steve

Interesting endevour that you are involved in. I can not really add anything to what you are doing but I am interested in the possible identity of the pilot that flew two of these fighters. I have always read that Wurmheller was shot down at least twice that day, an emergency landing in which he broke his right foot and suffered concussion and then forced to bale out with burns to his face and right arm. Could it be that the fighter that he emergency landed was Fw 190 A-3 (W.Nr. 0130 479) and the fighter that he baled out of was Fw 190 A-2 (W.Nr. 0120 231)? According to Wood's JG 2 loss list www.ww2.dk/misc/jg2loss.pdf, the unknown pilot of the latter baled out and the other fighter's unknown pilot is not listed as having been uninjured whereas with Fw 190 A-3 (W.Nr. 0130 545) the unknown pilot is listed as being unhurt. What do you think? Any comments would be welcomed.

Horrido!

Leo

Re: JG2 losses 19/8/42
 

You have set yourself a very difficult task. Apart from 10/JG 2 which you should be able to get from my book, I have the following times:

Epsiger & Schweickart: around 0910-0925 hrs
Eimers: 1510-1540
Pfeffer: 1130-1210

According to the same document, Josef Wurmheller was an Ofw on Oblt at that time and with 1/JG 2

Re: JG2 losses 19/8/42
 

Leo,

An interesting theory, but the QM loss returns note both aircraft as belonging to I/JG2.

Where did you read that Wurmheller crashlanded and bailed out during the day? I was under the belief that he flew during the day with his foot in plaster, implying that his injuries had been suffered earlier. Is this incorrect?

Regards,

Steve

Wurmheller
 

Hi Steve

Wurmheller was serving with 1./JG 2 on 19 August 1942. The information about him in action over Dieppe is from http://members.aol.com/falkeeins/Stu...en/dieppe.html It does seem that he had already suffered the broken foot previously as you mention. However, it appears that he had to make a forced landing on his first sortie, claimed two Spitfire fighters and a Blenheim bomber on his second sortie, claimed three Spitfire fighters but was shot down and baled out on his third sortie and claimed a further Spitfire fighter on his fourth sortie. Thus, he was made an emergency landing and was shot down that day.

Horrido!

Leo

Re: JG2 losses 19/8/42
 

Leo/Chris,

Sorry a typo on my part, confusing Ltn J. Wuimbeller (9.Staffel) with Ofw J. Wurmheller (1.Staffel)!

Leo if he bailed out then it is a good possibily that the aircraft was 120231. I believe one of the unknown I Gruppe aircraft was from 2.Staffel, so the other two could be 1.Staffel.

Chris thanks for those times, are they local (ie German) or British?

Regards,

Steve

Re: JG2 losses 19/8/42
 

German times and no mention of Wurmheller being shot down in these records

Chris

Re: JG2 losses 19/8/42
 

Thanks Chris, my understanding was that Epsiger was lost on the English side of the Channel after colliding with a 'Spitfire' and was credited with this by his returning wingman.

Leo, the combat report you mention is actually one by Hptm Leie. He claimed a Spitfire at 10.50, before being shotdown himself. Ofw Wurmbeller didn't make any claims during this sortie (the only one of his five during which he didn't make one).

Regards,

Steve

JG 2 Losses 19 August 1942
 

Hi guys

Steve and Chris, many thanks for clearing this up. I apologize for sending you off on a wild goose chase but I was under the impression that the report was Wurmheller's. At least I got something out of this thread! Many thanks to you for this and good luck on your quest.

Horrido!

Leo

Re: JG2 losses 19/8/42
 

Hello Steve,

Just to add a small correction on the written above, this was actually Bf109 G-1 WNr.14064 of the 11./JG2, flown by Obfw. Hermann Staege, damaged 60% ater air combat and forcelanding near Abbeville, markings were white 11+.

best regards,
Tomislav

Re: JG2 losses 19/8/42
 

..the day has already been deeply researched by Pierre Watteeuw in the latest volume of his 'German Day fighter losses' series. See here for a review..

http://www.luftwaffe-experten.org/forums/i...?showtopic=3926

Re: JG2 losses 19/8/42
 

Thomislav, thanks for that correction.

I've got Pierre Watteeuw's latest edition on order, as I'm curious to see if he has managed to confirm the times and causes of many of the losses. With so many RAF claims and many of the Luftwaffe aircraft listed as just missing the days fighting is difficult is reconstruct.

Regards,

Steve

Re: JG2 losses 19/8/42
 

Hello Steve,
I have been trying to find out the time Leutnant Franz Sommer, 6/JG2 went missing on 19/8/1942 for many years. I even asked his Staffelkapitaen, Erich Rudorffer about eight years ago. He consulted his Flugbuchs and still could not tell me the time even though he gave me some of his memories of Sommer. How do you know that Geguns and Sommer of 6 Staffel went missing at different times in the day? Any idea which of them went missing in the morning?

Great thread!
Regards,
Andy

Re: JG2 losses 19/8/42
 

Andy,

I'm afraid I've got no evidence when either the 6.Staffel aircraft were lost, the probability that one was lost in the morning and one in the afternoon was based on a comparison of the RAF claims verse the times the staffel was engaged in action. Obviously the claims outweighed the losses, but with reports of Fw190's having engine cowlings or pilots bailing out then it is probable that Fw190's were lost at these time. That's the best I can do I'm afraid...

Regards,

Steve

JG 2 Losses 19 August 1942
 

Hello Steve

Fresh from my fiasco about Oberfeldwebel Josef Wurmheller being shot down and baling out, I can state that Prein's JG 2 loss list has him listed as the pilot of Fw 190 A-3 (W.Nr. 0130 479) shot down by Spitfire fighters at 9:20. Also of 1./JG 2, Unteroffizier Kurt Epsinger is listed as having collided with a Spitfire south of Hover at 8:00. Feldwebel Günther Seeger (56 victories, RK) of 3./JG 2 is listed as the pilot of Fw 190 A-3 "Yellow 14" (W.Nr. 0130 546). The incident involving Feldwebel Heinrich Pfeffer of 9./JG 2 is recorded as having occured at 11:45 and the third fighter of 9./JG 2 was Fw 190 A-3 (W.Nr. 0137 018) flown by Unteroffizier Kurt Schramm who emergency landed due to engine trouble with 15% damage. I hope that this redeems me!

Horrido!

Leo

Re: JG2 losses 19/8/42
 

Leo,

Consider yourself redeemed!

I take it the times in use are continental (ie one hour ahead of that in use by the UK based forces).

Regards,

Steve

Re: JG2 losses 19/8/42
 

Hi Steve,

I can add that the Fw.190 of Gefr Eimers apperantly crashed in sea as his body weashed ashore on 24th September 1942 near the coastal village of Egmond aan Zee, The Netherlands. He was buried 4 days later at the cemetery of Bergen and was reinterred at 10th March 1957 at Ysselsteyn, The Netherlands.
I don't know if it's of any use but I can provide a burial record if you wish.

Good luck with the research,
Hans Nauta

Re: JG2 losses 19/8/42
 

Hans,

Thanks for that information, he was not alone in being lost over the channel during the day. Do you know why his body was later moved?

Regards,

Steve

Re: JG2 losses 19/8/42
 

Hi.

Gefr. Siegfried Eimers is still buried at Ysselsteyn. The information below taken from the Volksbund site:

Siegfried Eimers ruht auf der Kriegsgräberstätte in Ysselsteyn (Niederlande) .
Endgrablage: Block CL Reihe 2 Grab 34

Regards,
Andreas B