Bergunskommando or Salvage Detachments
 

Hello/Bonjour,

I don't know if that subject has been studied (more widely) in books, but for my part I am looking for details about German salvage detachments in West France (Brittany), detachments known as "Bergungs kommando".

For instance: Subordination, Organization, workforce (military or civilian?), stationing places (fixed or mobile?), scrap yards (airfields, town with foundry?)... Some clarifications on these points - even limited -are the welcome.

Best regards,
Frederic

Re: Bergunskommando or Salvage Detachments
 

Hello,

I hope this is helpful. http://www.lonesentry.com/articles/t...-aircraft.html


Ed

Re: Bergunskommando or Salvage Detachments
 

Thank you for the link Ed, very interesting.

I found also an article of Jean-Louis Roba in the French aviation magazine "Avions" (issue of September 2004) which give some interesting details via testimonies about these detachments.

Does one knows if there are files regarding these "Bergungskommandos" held by the German archives?

Best regards,
Frederic

Re: Bergunskommando or Salvage Detachments
 

This book has a fair amount of information on the Bergungs-Organisation in the West, I believe, as well as lots of photos:

Stapfer, Hans-Henri. Strangers in a Strange Land. Carrollton (TX): Squadron/Signal Publications, 1988. ISBN: 0-89747-198-9. Oversize Pb with laminated cover. 80p. Heavily illus.

L.

Re: Bergunskommando or Salvage Detachments
 

Thank you Larry, I will look for that book.

best regards,
Frederic

Re: Bergunskommando or Salvage Detachments
 

Here's a link:

https://www.amazon.com/Strangers-Str.../dp/0897471989

Re: Bergunskommando or Salvage Detachments
 

Great! Thanks again Ed.

Best regards,
Frederic

Re: Bergunskommando or Salvage Detachments
 

As for Bergungs Kommando files in Bundesarchiv, either they are well hidden or are completely missing, I am looking for them for quite a while too, I was able to found 2 folders but which are related only to DLM in Rumanien, the "central" fund is nowehere to be found.

Attached some examples

Re: Bergunskommando or Salvage Detachments
 

Hello/Bonjour Mihai,

Thank you for these samples. If archives exist, they remain to be found!

An interesting research... there seems to be "Bergungstrupps" reports in some MACR. Follow this link: https://384thbombgroup.com/_content/MACRs/MACR1336.pdf

Best regards,
Frederic

Re: Bergunskommando or Salvage Detachments
 

With these numbers, there should be at least some folders and files that survived the war:

Prior to the war there was very little central direction in the Luftwaffe for the recovery and salvaging of captured enemy aviation equipment; during the annexation of Czechoslovakia in Mar 1939 it was carried out by the various field commands more or less as each saw fit. It was not until the attack on Poland that a special field command was created for this purpose, but it was only in the spring of 1940 that the Luftwaffe finally set up a central authority (Luftwaffenbeute - LwB, which was formed on 24 April 1940) under the Generalluftzeugmeister/Air Ministry in Berlin to supervise and control the recovery and exploitation of captured aircraft and equipment. By the end of 1940 the organization had quickly grown from a few officers and clerks to 12 field salvage staffs (Luftzeugstab 1 - 6, and Luftzeugstab z.b.V. 11 - 16) with 7,900 German military personnel (including RAD detachments) and around 700 foreign workers. Nearly 99% of the officers and engineers belonging to the organization were old reserve and other inactive personnel called up for the duration of the war, and the majority of the EM were over 40. From May 1940 to December 1941, covering the campaigns in the West, the Balkans and the first six months in Russia, approximately 10,000 aircraft engines, 6,000 antiaircraft guns, and large quantities of ammunition and fuel were recovered and salvaged. From 1942 through 1944, the Bergungs- units of the Luftwaffe recovered and salvaged 66,474 aircraft fuselages, 89,388 aircraft engines, 9,504 antiaircraft guns, 9,806 aircraft and antiaircraft machine guns, 139,811 rifles and handguns, and tens of thousands of tons of ammunition, scrap metal and fuel.

[Source:
H.Boog - Die deutsche Luftwaffenführung 1935-1945: Führungsprobleme, Spitzengliederung, Generalstabsausbildung, p.254; NARA WashDC: RG 242 (T-321 roll 12/119-55).

Re: Bergunskommando or Salvage Detachments
 

Awesome post above and what an excellent thread.

Bronc

Re: Bergunskommando or Salvage Detachments
 

Thank you Larry, very interesting excerpt.

I note also that some MACR held at the NARA have copies of "Bergtrupps" reports. More I look for more I see that kind of documents in some of them.

I found also this. Here a link about the “Beutepark d. Lw. 5 Paris” (starting on page 20 - unfortunately in French) with several pictures. By clicking on the picture, you access to the Historical Society of Nanterre Bulletin (June 2004). http://histoire-nanterre.org/?p=560

Best regards,
Frederic

Re: Bergunskommando or Salvage Detachments
 

2x Spitfire wreck at Zerlegebetrieb" Utrecht
https://hetutrechtsarchief.nl/beeldm...32816%7D%20asc
https://www.vereniging-atc.nl/sites/...?itok=70iPauBh

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showpost.php?p=107450&postcount=1


"I'm searching for information about The Zerlegebetrieb, Utrecht in The Netherlands.
At this Luftwaffe location, at the Cartesiusweg (Cartesiusroad), German an allied warplanes where scrapped. At the end of 1943 the "Zerlegebetrieb" Utrecht moved by Flieger Haupt Jakob Mairitsch, to Concentrationcamp 's-Hertogenbusch-Vught (Rohruckbetrieb Herzogenbusch-Vught). After scrapping the planes the metal transported to Germany to be used in warfactories.

In the begin the commando was Dienststelle Luftwaffebeute at Berlin. Later upgradet to an Abteilung. At last it felt under the Nachschubamt. In the Netherlands Luftwaffe Bergebataillon 4 was in charge to demolisch and transport the crashed planes to Utrecht or 's-Hertogenbusch-Vught. They used trucks, boats and trains."


contact Peter van Kaathoven. He did a lecture about this item http://www.arg1940-1945.nl/duits/act...ender2017d.htm and his email is here http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=21364

Re: Bergunskommando or Salvage Detachments
 

Checking through copies I've made over the years of documents from the archive in Freiburg/Brsg, I found quite a few "Luftwaffen-Berge-Truppen". Most of them concerning the salvaging of own and enemy aircraft in Holland, Belgium and France during 1943 (RL 22/2 - RL 22/6), but also one Kriegstagebuch from the eastern front, Luftwaffen-Berge-Bataillon I (RL 22/1).

A big chunk it is, hundreds and hundreds of pages, here are three examples how they look like...

Greetings Hans K

Re: Bergunskommando or Salvage Detachments
 

Thank you gents for these answers and samples, greatly appreciated. Now, we have archives call numbers where to search...

Taking advantage of this opportunity, Hans K, do you have something in your copies around March 6, 1943 for the Brest-Peninsula, Brittany, France?

Best regards,
Frederic

Re: Bergunskommando or Salvage Detachments
 

Sorry, nothing from that part of France and almost nothing that early in 1943.

Rl 22/3 and 22/6 are from april-november 1943 and almost only southern France.

RL 22/2 (not quite sure about that number), 22/4 and 22/5 deal with northern France, Belgium and Holland. Mostly summer and autumn 1943.

Found another one - RL 22/24 - who gives us 33 "Bergungen" in 1943, and curiously enough most of them are crashed Ju-87 belonging to Stukageschwader 101, all at St Raphael...! A training school or just too much french wine...?

Greetings Hans K

Re: Bergunskommando or Salvage Detachments
 

Hans K, thank you for the details regarding the content of these archives call numbers (...and to have taken a look in your papers).

About your "funny" assumption, the rosé wine is particularly good in that part of southern France!

Best regards,
Frederic

Re: Bergunskommando or Salvage Detachments
 

Frederic,

In France, prior to 1 September 1943, the Flugzeug-Bergungstruppe came under the Luftflotte 3 Chef Ingenieur. He in turn parceled them out for attachment to the Koflug (Kommando Flughafenbereich) as the need dictated, and these in turn could assign them for temporary duty with individual Fliegerhorstkommandanturen. Additionally, the Werft-Kp. at each Fliegerhorstkommandantur had its own organic Bergungstrupp, sometimes 2 or 3 of them. None of these little 8 to 12 man Trupps kept their own records, such as a KTB mit Anglagen. They just filled out forms and filed hand-written reports to the Fl.H.Kdtr. and the Koflug.


In March 1943, there were an estimated 35 independently numbered Flugzeug-Bergungstruppe in West France plus another 100+ that were organic to the Werft-Kpn.

Since you are specifically interested in March 1943 in Brittany, you might want to determine the Koflug responsible for the Brest Peninsula and the Fliegerhorstkommandanturen that were there at that time. IMHO, that would be the best place to look. These records are in BA-MA RL 20 and RL 21.

Hope this helps a bit!

Larry

Re: Bergunskommando or Salvage Detachments
 

Hello/Bonjour Larry,

Thank you for these additional details, not simple I see. But already, I learned a little more on these "Bergungstrupps".

Best regards,
Frederic

Re: Bergunskommando or Salvage Detachments
 

Many thanks to all for this very interesting information.

Frederick,I think the second loss on March 6th, 1943, the one of F/O PRIHODA Josef is not at sea, even if he was reported as MIA, but south of Gouesnou, as reported on Erik Moombeck JG2 history. Moreover that there's an unknown airman who rests at Brest with that date on his stone. A scholar at Gouesnou saw a plane falling down in this area from high level, making a big sound, but without being able to give a date. The crash area I was indicated is built.


Kind regards
Gildas

Re: Bergunskommando or Salvage Detachments
 

Gildas, you are probably right.

There is perhaps a Gendarmerie report about this loss in the Finistere departemental archives? A report which could validate your testimony in some way.

Best regards,
Frederic

Re: Bergunskommando or Salvage Detachments
 

indeed, St.G 101 was based at St Raphael and dozens of JU87 crashed all around : Hyeres, Frejus, etc...

Re: Bergunskommando or Salvage Detachments
 

Hi Fred, nothing for Gouesnou in the department archives. I would add, strange, as Gouesnou hold a citation for having helped 12 airmen.

I only have one probable, 2Lt William Hawkins on 21 March 1944...
Yes, certainly these Bergunskommando reports would help a lot !
Best to all

Re: Bergunskommando or Salvage Detachments
 

Demat Gildas,

Really too bad the departemental archives don't have any records. You should try also the Gendarmerie Nationale archives, which hold some copies of reports - maybe they have something.

By the way, about Hawkins: http://www.4thfightergroupassociatio...inswcweb_a.pdf

All the best,
Frederic