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-   -   Corrections and Additions (http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=7911)

Jochen Prien 28th February 2007 22:28

Corrections and Additions
 
Gentlemen

here is the first part of corrections and additions concerning the JFV series. More will follow in due course.

JFV 3

p. 135: Other than the rest of the Gruppe 9./JG2 introduced its own form of a revised camouflage scheme on the upper surfaces of its Bf 109s in May / June 1940. This scheme sported bigger and soft edged spots on the fuselage sides as compared to the small, hard edged specks used by the rest of III./JG 2 and I./JG 2. This particular colour scheme can be seen on photos no. 78, 79 and 80 in JFV Vol. 4, that were made before the beginning of the BoB and show a/c of 9./JG 2 in France, presumably in late May / early June 1940.

p. 380: The loss of 2./JG 76 on May 17th, 1940, did not concern Lt. Joachim Schypek but Lt. Bernhard Schulten, who returned to his unit on May 25th, 1940, slightly wounded.

JFV 8 / II

p. 273: The Bf 109 lost on July 25th, 1942, that came down off the Sicilian coast belonged to 2./JG 77, not 1. Staffel as is stated in the last chapter, third line from the bottom; The pilot did not have to take to his parachute but was able to ditch his a/c close to the beach and to swim to the shore - vide Prien, JG 77 Vol. 3, p. 1249 with further references.

JFV 9 / II

p. 526: The loss of Uffz. Georg Koppe occurred on September 8th, 1942, not on the 5th; this is born out by the loss return and is stated correctly in the loss table on p. 570.

JFV 9 / III

p. 318: The rudder on photo no. 335 did not belong to " black 5 " of Oblt. Hackl but to the a/c of Oblt. Heinrich Setz, Staffelkapitän of 4./JG 77; Anton Hackl scored his first four claims in the West whereas Heinrich Setz scored only two claims in the West as can be seen on this photo.

Regards

Jochen Prien

John Beaman 2nd March 2007 15:16

Re: Corrections and Additions
 
Thank you, Jochen!

Falcon 11th March 2007 10:43

Re: Corrections and Additions
 
Dear Mr. Prien.

Notice/Question:

On page 170/Abb. 177 / Teil 6/II the text below the photo gives the information that the belly landing was on 25.09.1941 after lost of sight (cause flak hit) with a result of 30% damage.

On the next page in the lost list is given that the belly landing was a result of no fuel/low fuel and given with 35% damage.


Whats right?

Boris Ciglic 11th March 2007 20:46

Re: Corrections and Additions
 
Just few remarks regarding Vol.5:

p.244: this photo was taken at Bijeljina airfield in Eastern Bosnia, Yugoslavia

p.252: this photo was taken at Pancevo airfield, Serbia, Yugoslavia

p.254: looking at the landscape and knowing first-hand how it looks this photo could not have been taken at Pancevo (just compare it with p.254), it looks much more like Belgrade-Zemun (Semlin)

p.281 & 282: these photos were not taken at Skoplje or anywhere in Yugoslavia. I've never seen any hangar in Yugoslavia similar to one on p.281, the landscape on p.282 does not resemble that in Skoplje but looks much like the one at Paramythia or Molaoi in Greece

p.312: Bf 109E-7 W.Nr.2039 (Obfhr. Heinz Eckhardt) was rammed by RYAF Fury Mk.II and bot aircraft desintegrated in the air

I also have a question regarding Hptm. Herbert Ihlefeld. Actually, before he was struck by a ground fire above Nis airfield on 6 April 1941, he apparently shot down Yugoslav Potez 25 on landing approach. Several eyewitnesses, including a crewmember from the Potez and the man who hit Ihlefeld's plane, stated that lead Bf 109 in German formation attacked the Potez and shot it down, seconds later this machine was hit by rifle fire and immediately turned in direction of Bulgaria trailing smoke. Didn't he ever claim this kill?

Cheers,
Boris

Jochen Prien 19th March 2007 23:51

Re: Corrections and Additions
 
Dear Mr. Falcon / Weiss,

unfortunately in the photo caption on p. 170 the degree of damage was erroneously - presumably due to a typing error of mine - given as only 30%, whereas in fact it was 35%.

There is however no uncertainty and no contradiction as to the reason of this incident - Lt. Jürgen Harder lost his bearings after being hit by Flak and had to belly land his a/c when it ran out of fuel near Nowgorod as it is stated in both the photo caption on p. 170 and the loss list o p. 171.

I hope this helps.

Jochen Prien

Jochen Prien 20th March 2007 00:10

Re: Corrections and Additions
 
Dear Boris,

many thanks for your corrections and suggestions. They remind me again that you cannot trust any caption on the backside of contemporary photos. At the same time - without personal knowledge of the countryside I have no ways of telling right from wrong. Therefore I'm grateful for any constructive input.

p. 244 - the official PK-caption placed this photo at " Deta near Arad." Normally these official captions are quite reliable, so what makes you so sure that this photo was actually taken at Bijeljina ? Don't get me wrong, I'm not mistrusting your comment, I just want to what your correction is based upon.

p. 252 - thank you.

p. 254 - time and place were quoted according to the loss return.

p. 281 & 282 - I take it that Skoplje a/f had no hangars like the one shown here so that this airfield would be ruled out. However, neither of the Greek airfields you mentioned offered anything like those hangars that can be seen here. So the location of these photos must be left open to discussinon for the time being.

p. 312 - thank you

p. 311 / 312 - no, Herbert Ihlefeld obviously filed no claim for the Potez on April 6th, 1941

Kind Regards

Jochen Prien

Boris Ciglic 29th March 2007 22:00

Re: Corrections and Additions
 
Dear Jochen,

as for the photo on p.244 it was definitely taken at Bijeljina, indeed there is a whole series of photos taken on same ocassion, with Hrabak, Phillip and Seidl looking the refuelling, I think that at least seven or eight have been published in different sources throughout the years. Please note a partially visible burned-out biplane in the right upper corner of the photo - it is a Yugoslav Breguet 19. There is even a photo of two captured Yugoslav soldiers rolling one of these fuel barrels.
As for the location of the photos on p.281 and 282, it will remain a mystery for us, at least for now.

Regards,
Boris

kalender1973 5th April 2007 09:15

Re: Corrections and Additions
 
Dear Mr. Prien,

I have finished to read the JVS 6,1 and found some discrepancy between the summary table p.32 and the data for particular units.

p.32: Stab/JG 3 3 killed/missing.
p.51: 2 killed/missed. I know from your JG3 book that on 30.06.41 Fw Hans Kolbe killed in Go-145.

p32: 15./JG27 4 killed/missing, losses: 8 plane >60%, 14 plane < 60%. p201-202 5 killed, losses 14 >= 60% 10<60%

I look short in JVF 6,2 and found the similar discrepancy for 15./JG52, ErgSt/JG54, ErgSt/JG77, I(J)/LG2.

I would like also ask, what is with the loss category "b" (I assume "beschädigt") ? Is this category that also was reported to RLM and GQM or it was easy to repair by unit ?

Thank you& Best regards

kalender1973 20th April 2007 10:04

Re: Corrections and Additions
 
And additional points from JVF 6,2:

p32 III/52 12 Killed/missed, p48-51 13 losses

p55 ".... zur Beschiessung von Odessa..." is not correct. The destroyer target was sure Constanza.

Dénes Bernád 25th April 2007 16:15

Re: Corrections and Additions
 
A detailed errata for Vol. 6/2 would be very much appreciated.


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