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-   -   Combat West Rouen on 26 08 1944 (http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=9214)

Eric Larger 25th June 2007 15:39

Combat West Rouen on 26 08 1944
 
Dear All

Does anyone have information concerning a dog fight over West Rouen (Duclair area over the Seine River) on 26 08 1944 .

2 FW 190A-8 of II./JG6 where shot down , both pilots bailed out .
2 where damaged

The hours was circa 9:00 German time so it could be 8:00 english time .

The allied aircrafts were reported being P-51 mustangs , but they could be also spitfire .

Many thanks for any information

Eric LArger

Brian Bines 25th June 2007 16:24

Re: Combat West Rouen on 26 08 1944
 
From a loss list there is 1. Fw 190 A8 171?09 yellow 6 of 7/JG6 Fw. Heinrich Knopf wounded - Tergnier 2. Fw190 A8 171495 black 5 of 6/JG6 Fw. Walter Budde wounded - Herpy 3. Fw 190 A8 171703 yellow 7 of 7/JG 6 Fw. Fritz Buchholz wounded - Rouen.
Hope this helps the list only shows where a pilot was killed/wounded/missing so there could be other losses,

Regards
Brian Bines

Eric Larger 25th June 2007 17:21

Re: Combat West Rouen on 26 08 1944
 
Many thanks

Yes I know all these losses , but which allied unit was involved in the dog fight ?
This is my main question sinvce many years and I do not have found the answer up to now .

Eric

Chris Thomas 25th June 2007 18:00

Re: Combat West Rouen on 26 08 1944
 
602 Sqn (Spit IX), 2nd TAF, claimed 2 Fw 190 destroyed and 1 damaged ''West of Beauvais' at 0900. They lost one Spit damaged by a Fw but the pilot managed to force-land in Allied territory.
CT

Eric Larger 25th June 2007 19:32

Re: Combat West Rouen on 26 08 1944
 
Hello Chris

Many thanks for this post . It could match as Duclair is circa 120/130 KM west of Beauvais . Two pilots bailed out , one landed on southern bank of the river Seine, one on the northern one . Another one was hit , the pilot beeing wounded .

One precision , Fritz Buchholz was hit in the tail , perhaps was it mentionned in any RAF report. Do you have the name of the RAF pilots or any more precise information on this mission .

I never search for Spitfire missions as Fritz Buchholz always let me know that he was shot down by mustangs , But I found no trace by any USAAF our RAF mustang units.

9 August 1944 , A fw 190A (G) crashed at Louviers south Rouen or North Evreux at 23:00 . The witnesse remember having seen a dog fight , before the FW 190 crashed near the farm . Do you have any information on this ?

In any way many thnaks for your help and suport

Eric

Steve49 25th June 2007 20:02

Re: Combat West Rouen on 26 08 1944
 
602 Sqn appear to have clashed with elements of I/JG26; according to Cladwell the Gruppen claimed four Spitfires for the loss of one Fw190 (pilot unharmed). II/JG26 also appears to have clashed with Spitfires (416 and 421 Sqn's)' claiming three for the loss of four Fw190's.

'2nd TAF Volume 2' puts the JG6 losses as being caused by US aircraft, but gives no more details.

For the 9th August crash are you sure about the time, seems a bit late for a dogfight even in the Summer.

Regards,

Steve

Eric Larger 25th June 2007 20:11

Re: Combat West Rouen on 26 08 1944
 
Steve ,

it could be also US aircrafts but I never find any information , on this dog fight . The one involving II./JG6 and P-38, on 25 Augut 1944 , is very well known ands detailled (I have US reports for example) , but not 26 August 1944.

The second dog fight is not late as the aircraft schot down could have been a FW 190G-3 of I./SKG10 , doing night missions over the beach head and the allied front line , so for me it is not too late , the victor could have been an english night fighter (beaufighter or Mosquito) , but I have no other information The witnesses , heard a dog fight , they ran out of the house and saw the FW 190 in fire , it exploded on impact in the garden and crashed on one of the hangar of the farm . There were no pilot in it (Police report) . A The body of a german pilot was found later in the wood on ther nearby hill.

Eric

Steve49 25th June 2007 20:20

Re: Combat West Rouen on 26 08 1944
 
If a Jabo Fw190, then like you say not too late. No nightfighter claims listed for RAF aircraft in '2nd TAF' for the 9th August. The latest RAF claims were by 19 Sqn's Mustangs, but these were at about 18.00 and in the Chatres area

Regards,

Steve

Eric Larger 25th June 2007 20:49

Re: Combat West Rouen on 26 08 1944 and Louvier 09 08 1944
 
Thanks Steve for these precisions .

Yes there are good chances that it was a Jabo FW 190G-3 , I am waiting for some photos of the wrecks taken few time after crash . But the dog fight noises heard by witnesses , could be the noise of the engine not running very well . The french police report mentionned a crash date at 23:00 , so I think there is no doubt about it .

On second hand a pīlot of 3./SKG10 is reported missing that day . The mission was to attack Avranches , he was reported shot down by AA but as he is stil reported missing up to now , he could have been hit but succeeded to fly his aircraft on several miles before his aircraft being unflyable (engine over heating? due to combat damage) .Louviers is on the way from Avranches to Rosičre-en-Santrerre where SKG10 was based .

So from pieces of puzzle to pieces of puzzle , after withdrawing some hypothesis , we will find the most probable option.

So if any new information or fact comes to you , it will be welcome.

Many thanks to all you for your help and support and all the next coming posts .

Eric LArger

Eric Larger 26th June 2007 11:48

Re: Combat West Rouen on 26 08 1944
 
Now Back to 26 August 1944 .

Does anyone of you have any data concerning victories claimed on 26 Ausgust 1944 at 9:00 (West Rouen, East le Havre) , involving P-51 of of 8th or 9th Air Force , mentionning 2 FW 190 shot down and 1 FW 190 damaged .

Eric


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