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Most One Sided Luftwaffe Victory over the 8th Air Force
On 29 Apr 44, of 751 ‘Mighty 8th’ bombers taking off for Berlin on Mission 279 (?), 669 were credited with a combat sortie (Could someone provide a compreshensive breakdown of losses –this is what I have:
-64 Bombers Fail to Return (38 B-17s & 26 B-24s) –apparently 47 were lost to Lufwaffe fighters –at least 9 were lost to Flak –8 lost to ??? -355 Bombers Damaged (325 to Flak –apparently 30 to Fighters/Fighters & Flak) ? Category E Damage ? Category D Damage ? Category C Damage ? Category B Damage ? Category A Damage -14 Fighters Fail to Return (10 P-51s, 3 P-38s, and 1 P-47) ? Category E Damage ? Category D Damage ? Category C Damage ? Category B Damage ? Category A Damage 78 U.S. Aircraft Failed to Return 28 Luftwaffe Aircraft are Lost -Breakdown? I quickly counted 128 Luftwaffe claims from my 25 Dec 04 version of Tony Woods Claims List including (201 and 202 from Heinz Bär and –surprise, surprise- No. 274 from my old acquaintance Günther Rall who had just returned from the Ostfront (The controversial Gottfried Dulias & I had breakfast with him the morning after a NASM syposium in 2002). Though I’m fairly familiar with the major air battles with bombers –Ploesti, the two Schweinfurt battles, Berlin- I haven’t heard much about this raid. Why haven’t their been any in Depth Studies on this almost unknown but remarkeable action? Can anyone elaborate on this fight? What went so wrong for the Allies at this late stage in the war? What did the Jagdwaffe do right? Thanks, Rob Romero |
Revisions & Elaboration
A more careful count from my 25 Dec 04 version of Tony Woods Claims List indicates the Luftwaffe Claimed a total of 89 Aircraft Definitely Shot Down –a caution to historians to distinguish between Abschüsse (Outright Victory Claims), Endgültige Vernichtung (Final Destruction of Cripples), and HSS (Bomber Separated From Formation) claims. Since it seems that the Luftwaffe claimed 89 aircraft shot down and some 61 or more 8th Air Force Aircraft were shot down by aircraft, it seems they made a fairly reasonable estimate of their success (better than 2 out of every 3 claims or 68.5% can apparently be verified) for what must have been a hellacious fight. Moreover 10 of these 84 Claims were ASM ‘Pending Official Confirmation’ and thus cannot be counted as ‘Official Victories’ without subsequent documentation. Also very interseting is the fact that 2 of the 12 ASMs (Claims Pending Official Confirmation) belonged to none other than Günther Rall (his 274th) and Heinz Bär (his 202nd) -this single example -suggests to this writer at least- that the Luftwaffe’s Experten did not special consideration in assesing their claims.
84 Abschüsse (Outright Victory Claims) (10 of which were Pending Official Confirmation) 5 e. V. Claims (Final Destruction of HSS or Cripples) 89 Total Victory Claims + 26 HSS Claims (Bomber Separated From Formation -i.e. Crippled) 115 Total Claims 75 Bombers Claimed Shot Down 65 Bombers Officially Credited (+10 Pending Official Confirmation) ~55 of 64 Bombers Shot Down by Fighters –at least 9 Bombers lost to Flak (~55 of 75 Claimed Bombers Were Actually Shot Down ~73.3% Claim Accuracy) US FIGHTERS LOST (The PRESUMPTION is made that all fighters were lost in combat to Luftwaffe Aircraft) 11 ‘Fighters’ Claimed Shot Down 10 ‘Fighters’ Officially Credited (+1 Pending Official Confirmation) 11 ‘Fighters’ Actually Failed to Return NOTE ‘Fighters’ in this instance indicates single engined fighters (P-51 or P-47) Maj. Hans-Joachim Jabs also claimed 2 Spitfires in a perhaps unrelated action. (11 of 11 Claimed Single Engined Fighters Were Actually Shot Down 100% Claim Accuracy) 7 P-38s Claimed Shot Down 6 P-38s Officially Credited (+1 P-38 Pending Official Confirmation) 3 P-51 Actually Failed to Return -1 other pilot Claimed Unknown Type) (3 of 2 Claimed P-38s Were Actually Shot Down 150% Claim Accuracy) 52 B-17s Claimed Shot Down 46 B-17 Officially Credited (+6 Pending Official Confirmation) 38 B-17s Actually Failed to Return –Some were lost to Flak 29.04.44 Fw. Franz Busch: 1 5./JG 3 B-17 £ GC-7: 7.500 m. [N.E. Helmstedt] 10.52 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 211 29.04.44 Uffz. Kappler: 1 3./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GB, E.S.E. Braunschweig: 7.000 m. 10.57 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 37 29.04.44 Ofw. Brodbeck: 3 6./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GB-HB: 7.500 m. [Braunschweig] 10.58 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 81 29.04.44 Oblt. Georg-Peter Eder: 41 6./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GB-7: 7.500 m. [E. Braunschweig] 10.58 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 82 29.04.44 Ofw. Rudolf Hübl: 18 2./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GC-7: 5.000 m. [N.E. Königslutter] 11.01 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. - 29.04.44 Maj. Gerhard Michalski 3./JGr. z.b.V B-17 £ Schandelah: 7.000 m. [E. Brauschweig] 11.03 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 1 29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Schrangl: 5 Stab I./JG 11 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/FU N. Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 24 29.04.44 Fw. Otto Florian: 9 4./JG 3 B-17 £ N. Helmstedt: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 273 29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Weik: 27 10./JG 3 B-17 £ HB-1 Helmstedt: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 16 29.04.44 Ltn. Karl Paashaus: 21 5./JG 53 B-17 £ 10 km. E. Braunschweig: 7.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 77 29.04.44 Fhj.Fw. Walter Becker: 1 6./JG 3 B-17 £ Raum Helmstedt: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 120 29.04.44 Hptm. Fritz Keller: 8 Stab II./JG 27 B-17 £ N.E. Helmstedt: 6.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 39 29.04.44 Ltn. Dieter Zink: 7 Stab/JG 3 B-17 £ Helmstedt: 7.800 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 185 29.04.44 Ltn. Oscar Zimmermann: 17 6./JG 3 B-17 £ N.W. Magdeburg: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 121 29.04.44 Fw. Walter Köhne: 28 3./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GB E.S.E. Braunschweig: 6.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 36 29.04.44 Uffz. Gerhard Vivroux: 5 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ GB-9: 7.000 m. [Marienthal E. Königslutter] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 23 29.04.44 Fw. Kurt Röhrich: 9 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ GC-5: 7.000 m. [Calvörde N. Haldensleben] 11.06 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 24 29.04.44 Ltn. Werner Gerth: 8 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ GC-2: 7.000 m. [Miesterhorst] 11.07 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 25 29.04.44 Uffz. Oskar Bösch: 2 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ 5 km. N.W. Helmstedt: 7.000 m. 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 27 29.04.44 Uffz. Willi Maximowitz: 4 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ Hehlingen: 7.000 m. 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 26 29.04.44 Ltn. Richard Franz: n.l. Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ N. Oebisfelde: 7.000 m. 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 28 29.04.44 Ltn. Siegfried Müller: 6 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ GC-7: 7.000 m. [Haldensleben] 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 30 29.04.44 Oblt. Günther Seeger: 47 4./JG 53 B-17 £ HB-2: 7.000 m. [S.W. Königslutter] 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 139 29.04.44 Oblt. Ottmar Zehart: 3 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ GC-12: 7.000 m. [Miesterhorst] 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 29 29.04.44 Ltn. Richard Franz: 4 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ - 11.10 Reference: JG 3 List f. 356 29.04.44 Oblt. Walter Bohatsch: e.V. 3./JG 3 B-17 e.V. £ HE-8: 3.000 m. [N. Zerbst] 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 275 29.04.44 Ofw. Ernst Haase: 7 1./JG 302 B-17 £ Braunschweig-Wolfsburg tiefflug 100 m. Reference: WR JG 301-302 29.04.44 Ofw. Artur Groß: 6 2./JG 302 B-17 £ - - Reference: WR JG 301-302 29.04.44 Oblt. Heinz Seidel: 5 3./JG 302 B-17 £ - - Reference: WR JG 301-302 29.04.44 Uffz. Peine: n.b. 2./JG 1 B-17 e.V. £ - - Reference: JG 1 List f. 1207 29.04.44 Fw. Otto Florian: 10 4./JG 3 B-17 £ HE-4: 7.500 m. [Wiesenburg] 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 275 29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Weik: 28 10./JG 3 B-17 £ HD-3 Burg: 7.000 m. 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 18 29.04.44 Fw. Hans-Ulrich Jüng: 4 10./JG 3 B-17 £ HD-3 Burg: 7.500 m. 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 17 29.04.44 Uffz. Walter Loos: 9 11./JG 3 B-17 £ HD-3 Burg: 7.500 m. 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 19 29.04.44 Fw. Werner Dienst: 1 2./JG 302 B-17 £ Wennbostel N. Hannover: 8.500 m. 11.30 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 1 29.04.44 Gefr. illegible Ind.St. Erla B-17 £ Locations illegible 12.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 4 29.04.44 Uffz. Bruno Ostrowirtzki: 6 2./JG 3 B-17 £ HE-9: 3.000 m. [S.E. Reuden] 12.15 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 95 29.04.44 Uffz. Schult [sic] L.Beo.St. B-17 £ Locations illegible 12.39 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 2 29.04.44 Oblt. Rüdiger von Kirchmayr: 14 5./JG 1 B-17 £ N.E. Fallersleben: 5.500 m. 13.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 85 29.04.44 Oblt. Rüdiger von Kirchmayr: 15 5./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GB: 5.500 m. [area Wolfsburg] 13.12 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 86 29.04.44 Oblt. Engau: 1 2./JG 11 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/FT: 5.800 m. [Nienburg] 13.27 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 99 29.04.44 Hptm. Walter Barte Stab III./NJG 3 B-17 £ FD-47: 4.300 m. [Jävenitz S.W. Stendal] 13.28 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 13 29.04.44 Oblt. Waldemar Radener: - 7./JG 26 B-17 £ 5 km. S.E. Roubaix: no height 13.35 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 93 29.04.44 Ofw. Gerhard Vogt: 26 5./JG 26 B-17 £ N.E. St. Omer: 1.000 m. 14.30 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 119 29.04.44 Fw. Otto Erhardt: 8 10./JG 3 B-17 £ - - Reference: JG 3 List f. 356 29.04.44 Fw. Peter Crump: e.V. 7./JG 26 B-17 e.V. £ 5 km. S. Reims 13.30 Reference: DLC JG 26 29.04.44 Ltn. Karlheinz Kapp: 10 4./JG 27 B-17 £ GB: 6.500 m. [N.E. Braunschweig] 10.55 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Fw. Rudolf Philipp: 6 5./JG 27 B-17 £ N.E. Braunschweig: 6.500 m. 11.00 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Fw. Johannes Hoyer: 3 6./JG 3 B-17 £ u. Magdeburg: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Uffz. Kurt Sossdorf: 1 5./JG 3 B-17 £ GC-4: 8.400 m. [Ratzlingen E. Wolfsburg] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Ltn. Werner Gerth: 7 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ FB-FC: 7.000 m. [area N.E. Gifhorn] 11.07 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Fw. Alexander: 1 4./JG 53 B-17 £ Bremen: 6.000 m. 13.40 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 23 B-24s Claimed Shot Down 19 B-24 Officially Credited (+4 Pending Official Confirmation) 26 B-17s Actually Failed to Return –Some were lost to Flak 29.04.44 Uffz. Walbeck: 2 3./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FT N.W.Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.03 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 32 29.04.44 Oblt. Hans-Heinrich Koenig: 22 3./JG 11 B-24 £ FU: N. Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.03 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 31 29.04.44 Uffz. Schumacher: 2 2./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU W. Celle: 6.000 m. 11.04 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 8 29.04.44 Uffz. Folger: 4 1./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU: 7.000 m. [N. Hannover] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 26 29.04.44 Uffz. Loewe: 1 1./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU: 7.000 m. [N. Hannover] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 21 29.04.44 Fhj.Ofw. Schunke: 1 Stab I./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S / FU Raum Eize: 7.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 20 29.04.44 Oblt. Hans-Heinrich Koenig: 23 3./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU nordl.Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 29 29.04.44 Ofw. Heinz Stöwer: 14 3./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU nordl. Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.07 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 30 29.04.44 Fw. Birkigt: 3 3./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FA nordl. Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 33 29.04.44 Fw. Janke: 2 3./JG 3 B-24 £ GC: 6.500 m. [area Haldensleben] 13.03 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 18 29.04.44 Fw. Hans-Georg Karl: 2 1./JG 1 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FS: 5.000 m. [area Sulingen] 13.13 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 27 29.04.44 Ltn. Windbichler: 3 2./JG 1 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU: 5.000 m. [S.E. Verden] 13.15 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 28 29.04.44 Gefr. Friedrich: 1 Stab/JG 11 B-24 £ ES-FS: 5.000 m. [Bassum-Sulingen] 13.25 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 7 29.04.44 Hptm. Gerhard Sommer: 19 4./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FS-FR Raum Diepholz: 6.000 m. 13.30 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 69 29.04.44 Fw. Wilhelm Fest: 10 5./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FS-6 to GS W. Minden: 6.500 m. 13.40 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 29 29.04.44 Uffz. Tempel: 1 4./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FS-FR: 6.000 m. [area Diepholz] 13.30-45 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 70 29.04.44 Uffz. Marx: 1 4./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FS-FR: 6.000 m. [area Diepholz] 13.30-45 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 71 29.04.44 Ofw. Hamacher: e.V. 2./JG 11 B-24 e.V. £ 05 Ost S/FR-3: 2.500 m. [W. Barnstorf] 13.25 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 38 29.04.44 Fw. Jansen: e.V. 5./JG 1 B-24 e.V. £ - - Reference: JG 1 List f. 1207 29.04.44 Maj. Heinz Bär: 202 Stab II./JG 1 B-24 £ GB: 6.500 m. [area N.E. Braunschweig] 10.59 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: ASM 29.04.44 Obfhr. Hodes: 1 2./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU Raum Celle: 7.000 m. 11.07 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: ASM 29.04.44 Fhj.Ofw. Eberhard Kröker: 7 6./JG 302 B-24 £ Leipkau: 7.000 m. 11.18 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: ASM 29.04.44 Oblt. Hans-Heinrich Koenig: 25 3./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FT Nienburg: 6.000 m. 13.56 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 14 US Fighter Lost (10 P-51s, 3 P-38s, and 1 P-47) 4 P-47s Claimed Shot Down & Officially Credited -1 P-47 Actually Failed to Return (25%) 29.04.44 Maj. Heinz Bär: 201 Stab II./JG 1 P-47 £ 05 Ost S/HB N.W.Halberstadt 10.56 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 68 29.04.44 Oblt. Georg-Peter Eder: 42 6./JG 1 P-47 £ 05 Ost S/HB-1 S.E.Braunschweig: 300 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 86 29.04.44 Oblt. Rüdiger von Kirchmayr: 13 5./JG 1 P-47 £ 05 Ost S/GB-HB ostl. Braunschweig 11.05 Reference: JG 1 List f. 1207 29.04.44 Obgefr. Triebel: n.b. 6./JG 1 P-47 £ 05 Ost S/GB Raum Braunschweig - Reference: JG 1 List f. 1207 29.04.44 Fhj.Ofw. Neuberger: 2 Stab II./JG 11 P-38 £ 05 Ost S/FA nordl. Hannover: 8.700 m. 11.30 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 22 29.04.44 Maj. Günther Rall: 274 Stab II./JG 11 P-38 £ 05 Ost S/FU nordl. Hannover: 8.000 m. 11.15 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: ASM 7 P-51 Claimed Shot Down 6 P-51 Officially Credited (+1 Pending Official Confirmation) 10 P-51s Actually Fail to Return -Perhaps some P-51s were Identified as P-47 from Rear) 29.04.44 Oblt. Heinz Knoke: 25 5./JG 11 P-51 £ Fl.Pl. Braunschweig-Waggum: 40 m. 11.50 - 12.00 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 28 29.04.44 Uffz. Drühe: 2 * 5./JG 11 P-51 £ - - Reference: JG 11 List f. 1207 29.04.44 Ltn. Lüchau: 17 * 6./JG 11 P-51 £ - - Reference: JG 11 List f. 1207 29.04.44 Ltn. Georg Füreder: 17 * 5./JG 11 P-51 £ - - Reference: JG 11 List f. 1207 29.04.44 Fw. Bubel: 1 4./JG 11 P-51 £ 05 Ost S/FS-FR Diepholz area: 6.000 m. - Reference: JG 11 List f. 1207 29.04.44 Oblt. Heinz Seidel: 4 3./JG 302 P-51 £ - - Reference: WR JG 301-302 29.04.44 Obfhr. Grill: 1 Stab II./JG 11 P-51 £ HA-HB/JA-JB: 5.000 m. [Hildesheim] 11.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM JaFü II. Jagdkorps/Lfl. 3: 29.04.44 Ofw. Karl Laube: n.l. 9./JG 26 Unident: £ Locations illegible 18.46 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 98 89 TOTAL Victory Claims 77 Official Victories (12 Victories Pending Official Verification) JaFüI. Jagdkorps/Lfl. Reich: 29.04.44 Ltn. Erwin Baumgarten: 3 5./JG 27 B-17 HSS £ N.E. Braunschweig: 6.500 m. 10.55 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Ofw. Rudolf Piffer: 26 2./JG 1 B-17 HSS £ 05 OstS/HC: 5.000 m. [N. Oschersleben] 10.58 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Uffz. Fritz Rathofer: 3 3./JG 1 B-17 HSS £ HB-HC: 7.000 m. [E. Schöppenstedt] 10.58 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Oblt. Karl-Heinz Seeler: 4 5./JG 302 B-17 HSS £ Helmstedt: 7.000 m. 11.04 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Ofw. Dahlhöfer: 1 2./JG 11 B-24 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FU Raum Celle: 7.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Fw. Grube: 1 12./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ Helmstedt: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Iffland: 11 10./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ HC-4: 7.500 m. [Barneburg] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Uffz. Max Reichenberger: 3 5./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ 15 Ost S / GC-4: 8.400 m. [Oebisfelde] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Fw. Hans Schäfer: 13 10./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ GC-14: no height [E. Oebisfelde] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Uffz. Helmut Keune: 1 Sturmst. 1 B-17 HSS £ FB-FC: 7.000 m. [Warenholz-Klötze] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Uffz. Oskar Bösch: 1 Sturmst. 1 B-17 HSS £ FB-FC: 7.000 m. [area N.E. Gifhorn] 11.07 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Uffz. Helmut Wichmann: 1 12./JG 3 B-24 HSS £ FB Gardelegen: 5.000 m. 13.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Hptm. Wilhelm Moritz: 35 Stab IV./JG 3 B-24 HSS £ FC-EC: 5.000 m. [area Salzwedel-Klötz] 13.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Rachner: 7 12./JG 3 B-24 HSS £ FB: 5.000 m. [area N.E. Gifhorn] 13.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Uffz. Oskar Fischer: 2 12./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ FB Gardelegen: 5.000 m. 13.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Obfhr. Erhard Nolting: 5 Stab IV./JG 3 B-24 HSS £ FC-EC: 5.000 m. [area Salzwedel-Klötz] 13.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Schrangl: 24 Stab I./JG 11 B-17 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FT-FS: 6.000 m. [S.W. Verden] 13.25 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Gefr. Schwesinger: 7 2./JG 11 B-17 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FT: 5.800 m. [Nienburg] 13.25 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Oblt. Hans-Heinrich Koenig: 24 3./JG 11 B-24 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FS-FT Raum Nienburg: 5.000 m. 13.25 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Ofw. Jantzen: 1 2./JG 11 B-24 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FT: 5.800 m. [area Nienburg] 13.25 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. - 29.04.44 Ofw. Gahr: 1 Stab/JG 11 B-17 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FT-FS S.W.Verden: 7.000 m. 13.26 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Uffz. Pfeffer: 3 Stab/JG 11 B-24 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FT-FS S.W.Verden: 6.000 m. 13.26 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Uffz. Walter Dobrath: 1 1./JG 1 B-24 HSS £ 05 Ost S/ER Raum Vechta: 5.500 m. 13.35 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Uffz. Willi Unger: 8 11./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ - - Reference: JG 3 List f. 356 29.04.44 Fw. Wolfgang Kosse: 22 Sturmst. 1 B-17 HSS £ - 11.10 Reference: JG 3 List f. 356 29.04.44 Fw. Wolfgang Kosse: 23 Sturmst. 1 B-17 HSS £ - 11.15 Reference: JG 3 List f. 356 26 HSS (Bombers Crippled) (Some of these were later shot down inluding 5 ‘Final Destruction’ of Cripples by Fighters -30 Bombers returned home Damaged). |
Ooops!!! More Revisions
A careful evaluation indicates the Luftwaffe Claimed a total of 89 Aircraft Definitely Shot Down –a caution to historians to distinguish between Abschüsse (Outright Victory Claims), Endgültige Vernichtung (Final Destruction of Cripples), and HSS (Bomber Separated From Formation) claims. Since it seems that as the Luftwaffe claimed 89 aircraft shot down and 61-69 USAAF Aircraft were shot down by aircraft, it seems they made a fairly reasonable estimate of their success (68.5-77.5% can apparently be verified) in what must have been a hellacious fight. Moreover 10 of these 89 Claims were ASM ‘Pending Official Confirmation’ and thus cannot be counted as ‘Official Victories’ without subsequent documentation. Also very interseting is the fact that 2 of the 12 ASMs (Claims Pending Official Confirmation) belonged to none other than Günther Rall (his 274th) and Heinz Bär (his 202nd) -this single example -suggests to this writer at least- that the Luftwaffe’s Experten did not receive special consideration in assesing their claims.
84 Abschüsse (Outright Victory Claims) (12 of which were Pending Official Confirmation) 5 Endgültige Vernichtung Claims (Final Destruction of HSS or Cripples) 89 Total Victory Claims + 26 HSS Claims (Bomber Separated From Formation -i.e. Crippled) 115 Total Claims 75 Bombers Claimed Shot Down 65 Bombers Officially Credited (+10 Pending Official Confirmation) ~55 of 64 Bombers Shot Down by Fighters –at least 9 Bombers lost to Flak (~55 of 75 Claimed Bombers Were Actually Shot Down ~73.3% Claim Accuracy) US FIGHTERS LOST (The PRESUMPTION is made that all fighters were lost in combat to Luftwaffe Aircraft) 11 ‘Fighters’ Claimed Shot Down 10 ‘Fighters’ Officially Credited (+1 Pending Official Confirmation) 11 ‘Fighters’ Actually Failed to Return NOTE ‘Fighters’ in this instance indicates single engined fighters (P-51 or P-47) Maj. Hans-Joachim Jabs (50) also claimed 2 Spitfires in a perhaps unrelated action. (11 of 11 Claimed Single Engined Fighters Were Actually Shot Down 100% Claim Accuracy) 2 P-38s Claimed Shot Down 1 P-38 Officially Credited (+1 P-38 Pending Official Confirmation) 3 P-38 Actually Failed to Return -NOTE 1 Luft pilot Claimed Unknown Type) (3 of 2 Claimed P-38s Were Actually Shot Down 150% Claim Accuracy) 52 B-17s Claimed Shot Down 46 B-17 Officially Credited (+6 Pending Official Confirmation) 38 B-17s Actually Failed to Return –Some were lost to Flak 29.04.44 Fw. Franz Busch: 1 5./JG 3 B-17 £ GC-7: 7.500 m. [N.E. Helmstedt] 10.52 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 211 29.04.44 Uffz. Kappler: 1 3./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GB, E.S.E. Braunschweig: 7.000 m. 10.57 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 37 29.04.44 Ofw. Brodbeck: 3 6./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GB-HB: 7.500 m. [Braunschweig] 10.58 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 81 29.04.44 Oblt. Georg-Peter Eder: 41 6./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GB-7: 7.500 m. [E. Braunschweig] 10.58 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 82 29.04.44 Ofw. Rudolf Hübl: 18 2./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GC-7: 5.000 m. [N.E. Königslutter] 11.01 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. - 29.04.44 Maj. Gerhard Michalski 3./JGr. z.b.V B-17 £ Schandelah: 7.000 m. [E. Brauschweig] 11.03 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 1 29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Schrangl: 5 Stab I./JG 11 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/FU N. Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 24 29.04.44 Fw. Otto Florian: 9 4./JG 3 B-17 £ N. Helmstedt: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 273 29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Weik: 27 10./JG 3 B-17 £ HB-1 Helmstedt: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 16 29.04.44 Ltn. Karl Paashaus: 21 5./JG 53 B-17 £ 10 km. E. Braunschweig: 7.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 77 29.04.44 Fhj.Fw. Walter Becker: 1 6./JG 3 B-17 £ Raum Helmstedt: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 120 29.04.44 Hptm. Fritz Keller: 8 Stab II./JG 27 B-17 £ N.E. Helmstedt: 6.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 39 29.04.44 Ltn. Dieter Zink: 7 Stab/JG 3 B-17 £ Helmstedt: 7.800 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 185 29.04.44 Ltn. Oscar Zimmermann: 17 6./JG 3 B-17 £ N.W. Magdeburg: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 121 29.04.44 Fw. Walter Köhne: 28 3./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GB E.S.E. Braunschweig: 6.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 36 29.04.44 Uffz. Gerhard Vivroux: 5 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ GB-9: 7.000 m. [Marienthal E. Königslutter] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 23 29.04.44 Fw. Kurt Röhrich: 9 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ GC-5: 7.000 m. [Calvörde N. Haldensleben] 11.06 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 24 29.04.44 Ltn. Werner Gerth: 8 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ GC-2: 7.000 m. [Miesterhorst] 11.07 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 25 29.04.44 Uffz. Oskar Bösch: 2 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ 5 km. N.W. Helmstedt: 7.000 m. 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 27 29.04.44 Uffz. Willi Maximowitz: 4 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ Hehlingen: 7.000 m. 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 26 29.04.44 Ltn. Richard Franz: n.l. Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ N. Oebisfelde: 7.000 m. 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 28 29.04.44 Ltn. Siegfried Müller: 6 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ GC-7: 7.000 m. [Haldensleben] 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 30 29.04.44 Oblt. Günther Seeger: 47 4./JG 53 B-17 £ HB-2: 7.000 m. [S.W. Königslutter] 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 139 29.04.44 Oblt. Ottmar Zehart: 3 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ GC-12: 7.000 m. [Miesterhorst] 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 29 29.04.44 Ltn. Richard Franz: 4 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ - 11.10 Reference: JG 3 List f. 356 29.04.44 Oblt. Walter Bohatsch: e.V. 3./JG 3 B-17 e.V. £ HE-8: 3.000 m. [N. Zerbst] 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 275 29.04.44 Ofw. Ernst Haase: 7 1./JG 302 B-17 £ Braunschweig-Wolfsburg tiefflug 100 m. Reference: WR JG 301-302 29.04.44 Ofw. Artur Groß: 6 2./JG 302 B-17 £ - - Reference: WR JG 301-302 29.04.44 Oblt. Heinz Seidel: 5 3./JG 302 B-17 £ - - Reference: WR JG 301-302 29.04.44 Uffz. Peine: n.b. 2./JG 1 B-17 e.V. £ - - Reference: JG 1 List f. 1207 29.04.44 Fw. Otto Florian: 10 4./JG 3 B-17 £ HE-4: 7.500 m. [Wiesenburg] 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 275 29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Weik: 28 10./JG 3 B-17 £ HD-3 Burg: 7.000 m. 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 18 29.04.44 Fw. Hans-Ulrich Jüng: 4 10./JG 3 B-17 £ HD-3 Burg: 7.500 m. 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 17 29.04.44 Uffz. Walter Loos: 9 11./JG 3 B-17 £ HD-3 Burg: 7.500 m. 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 19 29.04.44 Fw. Werner Dienst: 1 2./JG 302 B-17 £ Wennbostel N. Hannover: 8.500 m. 11.30 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 1 29.04.44 Gefr. illegible Ind.St. Erla B-17 £ Locations illegible 12.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 4 29.04.44 Uffz. Bruno Ostrowirtzki: 6 2./JG 3 B-17 £ HE-9: 3.000 m. [S.E. Reuden] 12.15 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 95 29.04.44 Uffz. Schult [sic] L.Beo.St. B-17 £ Locations illegible 12.39 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 2 29.04.44 Oblt. Rüdiger von Kirchmayr: 14 5./JG 1 B-17 £ N.E. Fallersleben: 5.500 m. 13.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 85 29.04.44 Oblt. Rüdiger von Kirchmayr: 15 5./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GB: 5.500 m. [area Wolfsburg] 13.12 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 86 29.04.44 Oblt. Engau: 1 2./JG 11 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/FT: 5.800 m. [Nienburg] 13.27 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 99 29.04.44 Hptm. Walter Barte Stab III./NJG 3 B-17 £ FD-47: 4.300 m. [Jävenitz S.W. Stendal] 13.28 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 13 29.04.44 Oblt. Waldemar Radener: - 7./JG 26 B-17 £ 5 km. S.E. Roubaix: no height 13.35 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 93 29.04.44 Ofw. Gerhard Vogt: 26 5./JG 26 B-17 £ N.E. St. Omer: 1.000 m. 14.30 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 119 29.04.44 Fw. Otto Erhardt: 8 10./JG 3 B-17 £ - - Reference: JG 3 List f. 356 29.04.44 Fw. Peter Crump: e.V. 7./JG 26 B-17 e.V. £ 5 km. S. Reims 13.30 Reference: DLC JG 26 29.04.44 Ltn. Karlheinz Kapp: 10 4./JG 27 B-17 £ GB: 6.500 m. [N.E. Braunschweig] 10.55 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Fw. Rudolf Philipp: 6 5./JG 27 B-17 £ N.E. Braunschweig: 6.500 m. 11.00 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Fw. Johannes Hoyer: 3 6./JG 3 B-17 £ u. Magdeburg: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Uffz. Kurt Sossdorf: 1 5./JG 3 B-17 £ GC-4: 8.400 m. [Ratzlingen E. Wolfsburg] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Ltn. Werner Gerth: 7 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ FB-FC: 7.000 m. [area N.E. Gifhorn] 11.07 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Fw. Alexander: 1 4./JG 53 B-17 £ Bremen: 6.000 m. 13.40 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 23 B-24s Claimed Shot Down 19 B-24s Officially Credited (+4 Pending Official Confirmation) 26 B-24s Actually Failed to Return –Some were lost to Flak 29.04.44 Uffz. Walbeck: 2 3./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FT N.W.Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.03 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 32 29.04.44 Oblt. Hans-Heinrich Koenig: 22 3./JG 11 B-24 £ FU: N. Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.03 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 31 29.04.44 Uffz. Schumacher: 2 2./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU W. Celle: 6.000 m. 11.04 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 8 29.04.44 Uffz. Folger: 4 1./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU: 7.000 m. [N. Hannover] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 26 29.04.44 Uffz. Loewe: 1 1./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU: 7.000 m. [N. Hannover] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 21 29.04.44 Fhj.Ofw. Schunke: 1 Stab I./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S / FU Raum Eize: 7.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 20 29.04.44 Oblt. Hans-Heinrich Koenig: 23 3./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU nordl.Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 29 29.04.44 Ofw. Heinz Stöwer: 14 3./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU nordl. Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.07 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 30 29.04.44 Fw. Birkigt: 3 3./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FA nordl. Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 33 29.04.44 Fw. Janke: 2 3./JG 3 B-24 £ GC: 6.500 m. [area Haldensleben] 13.03 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 18 29.04.44 Fw. Hans-Georg Karl: 2 1./JG 1 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FS: 5.000 m. [area Sulingen] 13.13 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 27 29.04.44 Ltn. Windbichler: 3 2./JG 1 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU: 5.000 m. [S.E. Verden] 13.15 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 28 29.04.44 Gefr. Friedrich: 1 Stab/JG 11 B-24 £ ES-FS: 5.000 m. [Bassum-Sulingen] 13.25 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 7 29.04.44 Hptm. Gerhard Sommer: 19 4./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FS-FR Raum Diepholz: 6.000 m. 13.30 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 69 29.04.44 Fw. Wilhelm Fest: 10 5./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FS-6 to GS W. Minden: 6.500 m. 13.40 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 29 29.04.44 Uffz. Tempel: 1 4./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FS-FR: 6.000 m. [area Diepholz] 13.30-45 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 70 29.04.44 Uffz. Marx: 1 4./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FS-FR: 6.000 m. [area Diepholz] 13.30-45 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 71 29.04.44 Ofw. Hamacher: e.V. 2./JG 11 B-24 e.V. £ 05 Ost S/FR-3: 2.500 m. [W. Barnstorf] 13.25 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 38 29.04.44 Fw. Jansen: e.V. 5./JG 1 B-24 e.V. £ - - Reference: JG 1 List f. 1207 29.04.44 Maj. Heinz Bär: 202 Stab II./JG 1 B-24 £ GB: 6.500 m. [area N.E. Braunschweig] 10.59 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: ASM 29.04.44 Obfhr. Hodes: 1 2./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU Raum Celle: 7.000 m. 11.07 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: ASM 29.04.44 Fhj.Ofw. Eberhard Kröker: 7 6./JG 302 B-24 £ Leipkau: 7.000 m. 11.18 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: ASM 29.04.44 Oblt. Hans-Heinrich Koenig: 25 3./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FT Nienburg: 6.000 m. 13.56 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 14 US Fighters Lost (10 P-51s, 3 P-38s, and 1 P-47) 4 P-47s Claimed Shot Down & Officially Credited -1 P-47 Actually Failed to Return (25%) 29.04.44 Maj. Heinz Bär: 201 Stab II./JG 1 P-47 £ 05 Ost S/HB N.W.Halberstadt 10.56 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 68 29.04.44 Oblt. Georg-Peter Eder: 42 6./JG 1 P-47 £ 05 Ost S/HB-1 S.E.Braunschweig: 300 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 86 29.04.44 Oblt. Rüdiger von Kirchmayr: 13 5./JG 1 P-47 £ 05 Ost S/GB-HB ostl. Braunschweig 11.05 Reference: JG 1 List f. 1207 29.04.44 Obgefr. Triebel: n.b. 6./JG 1 P-47 £ 05 Ost S/GB Raum Braunschweig - Reference: JG 1 List f. 1207 2 P-38s Claimed Shot Down 1 P-38 Officially Credited (+1 P-38 Pending Official Confirmation) 3 P-38 Actually Failed to Return -NOTE 1 Luft pilot Claimed Unknown Type) 29.04.44 Fhj.Ofw. Neuberger: 2 Stab II./JG 11 P-38 £ 05 Ost S/FA nordl. Hannover: 8.700 m. 11.30 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 22 29.04.44 Maj. Günther Rall: 274 Stab II./JG 11 P-38 £ 05 Ost S/FU nordl. Hannover: 8.000 m. 11.15 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: ASM 7 P-51 Claimed Shot Down 6 P-51 Officially Credited (+1 Pending Official Confirmation) 10 P-51s Actually Fail to Return -Perhaps some P-51s were Identified as P-47s from Rear) 29.04.44 Oblt. Heinz Knoke: 25 5./JG 11 P-51 £ Fl.Pl. Braunschweig-Waggum: 40 m. 11.50 - 12.00 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 28 29.04.44 Uffz. Drühe: 2 * 5./JG 11 P-51 £ - - Reference: JG 11 List f. 1207 29.04.44 Ltn. Lüchau: 17 * 6./JG 11 P-51 £ - - Reference: JG 11 List f. 1207 29.04.44 Ltn. Georg Füreder: 17 * 5./JG 11 P-51 £ - - Reference: JG 11 List f. 1207 29.04.44 Fw. Bubel: 1 4./JG 11 P-51 £ 05 Ost S/FS-FR Diepholz area: 6.000 m. - Reference: JG 11 List f. 1207 29.04.44 Oblt. Heinz Seidel: 4 3./JG 302 P-51 £ - - Reference: WR JG 301-302 29.04.44 Obfhr. Grill: 1 Stab II./JG 11 P-51 £ HA-HB/JA-JB: 5.000 m. [Hildesheim] 11.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM JaFü II. Jagdkorps/Lfl. 3: 29.04.44 Ofw. Karl Laube: n.l. 9./JG 26 Unident: £ Locations illegible 18.46 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 98 89 TOTAL Victory Claims 77 Official Victories (12 Victories Pending Official Verification) JaFüI. Jagdkorps/Lfl. Reich: 29.04.44 Ltn. Erwin Baumgarten: 3 5./JG 27 B-17 HSS £ N.E. Braunschweig: 6.500 m. 10.55 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Ofw. Rudolf Piffer: 26 2./JG 1 B-17 HSS £ 05 OstS/HC: 5.000 m. [N. Oschersleben] 10.58 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Uffz. Fritz Rathofer: 3 3./JG 1 B-17 HSS £ HB-HC: 7.000 m. [E. Schöppenstedt] 10.58 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Oblt. Karl-Heinz Seeler: 4 5./JG 302 B-17 HSS £ Helmstedt: 7.000 m. 11.04 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Ofw. Dahlhöfer: 1 2./JG 11 B-24 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FU Raum Celle: 7.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Fw. Grube: 1 12./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ Helmstedt: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Iffland: 11 10./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ HC-4: 7.500 m. [Barneburg] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Uffz. Max Reichenberger: 3 5./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ 15 Ost S / GC-4: 8.400 m. [Oebisfelde] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Fw. Hans Schäfer: 13 10./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ GC-14: no height [E. Oebisfelde] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Uffz. Helmut Keune: 1 Sturmst. 1 B-17 HSS £ FB-FC: 7.000 m. [Warenholz-Klötze] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Uffz. Oskar Bösch: 1 Sturmst. 1 B-17 HSS £ FB-FC: 7.000 m. [area N.E. Gifhorn] 11.07 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Fw. Wolfgang Kosse: 22 Sturmst. 1 B-17 HSS £ - 11.10 Reference: JG 3 List f. 356 29.04.44 Fw. Wolfgang Kosse: 23 Sturmst. 1 B-17 HSS £ - 11.15 Reference: JG 3 List f. 356 29.04.44 Uffz. Helmut Wichmann: 1 12./JG 3 B-24 HSS £ FB Gardelegen: 5.000 m. 13.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Hptm. Wilhelm Moritz: 35 Stab IV./JG 3 B-24 HSS £ FC-EC: 5.000 m. [area Salzwedel-Klötz] 13.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Rachner: 7 12./JG 3 B-24 HSS £ FB: 5.000 m. [area N.E. Gifhorn] 13.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Uffz. Oskar Fischer: 2 12./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ FB Gardelegen: 5.000 m. 13.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Obfhr. Erhard Nolting: 5 Stab IV./JG 3 B-24 HSS £ FC-EC: 5.000 m. [area Salzwedel-Klötz] 13.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Schrangl: 24 Stab I./JG 11 B-17 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FT-FS: 6.000 m. [S.W. Verden] 13.25 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Gefr. Schwesinger: 7 2./JG 11 B-17 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FT: 5.800 m. [Nienburg] 13.25 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Oblt. Hans-Heinrich Koenig: 24 3./JG 11 B-24 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FS-FT Raum Nienburg: 5.000 m. 13.25 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Ofw. Jantzen: 1 2./JG 11 B-24 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FT: 5.800 m. [area Nienburg] 13.25 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. - 29.04.44 Ofw. Gahr: 1 Stab/JG 11 B-17 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FT-FS S.W.Verden: 7.000 m. 13.26 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Uffz. Pfeffer: 3 Stab/JG 11 B-24 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FT-FS S.W.Verden: 6.000 m. 13.26 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Uffz. Walter Dobrath: 1 1./JG 1 B-24 HSS £ 05 Ost S/ER Raum Vechta: 5.500 m. 13.35 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Uffz. Willi Unger: 8 11./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ - - Reference: JG 3 List f. 356 26 HSS (Bombers Crippled) (Some of these were later shot down inluding 5 ‘Final Destruction’ of Cripples by Fighters -30 Bombers returned home Damaged) |
Re: Most One Sided Luftwaffe Victory over the 8th Air Force
This is what i found:
EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (ETO) STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force): Mission 327: 679 bombers and 814 fighters are dispatched to bomb Berlin, concentrating on railway facilities; they claim 95-33-48 Luftwaffe aircraft; 63 bombers and 13 fighters are lost: 1. 210 of 228 B-17s bomb Berlin; 10 B-17s are lost and 150 damaged; 1 airman is KIA, 7 WIA and 100 MIA. 2. 218 B-17s are dispatched to Berlin; 158 hit the primary, 24 hit Magdeburg, 10 hit Brandenburg and 4 hit targets of opportunity; 28 B-17s are lost and 161 damaged; 4 airmen are KIA, 20 WIA and 260 MIA. 3. 212 of 233 B-24s bomb Berlin; 25 B-24s are lost, 2 damaged beyond repair and 121 damaged; 13 airmen are KIA, 11 WIA and 246 MIA. Escort is provided by 117 P-38s, 463 Eighth and Ninth Air Force P-47s and 234 Eighth and Ninth Air Force P-51s; 3 P-38s and 10 P-51s are lost; 1 P-47 is damaged beyond repair; 7 P-38s, 16 P-47s and 7 P-51s are damaged; 1 pilot is WIA and 12 MIA. Mission 328: 4 of 4 B-17s drop 1.06 million leaflets on 21 towns in Northern France and The Netherlands without loss. 14 B-24s are dispatched on CARPETBAGGER missions without loss. TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Ninth Air Force): 217 B-26s dispatched to bomb marshalling yards in France abort the mission because of heavy cloud cover over the target area. |
Re: Most One Sided Luftwaffe Victory over the 8th Air Force
According to "Making for Sweden..." by Widfeldt/Wegmann, one B-24H (41-28718, BO, MACR 4451) landed at Rinkaby in Sweden, after being attacked at 1104 hours in the vicinity of Celie by a FW 190. A B-17G (42-31241, Spirit of Wanett, MACR 4163) and a B-24H (41-29479, Gypsy Queen, MACR 4488 ) ended up in Denmark. Both probably hit by Flak.
Cheers Hans |
Re: Most One Sided Luftwaffe Victory over the 8th Air Force
I'm not sure I see a 51 lost in the list, that was lost at Rathenow. Capt Thomas Neal was in pursuit of 2 Fw190s diving through cloud cover. His wingman Fritts pulled up and was only 200 feet from the ground when he recovered.
Neal crashed nearby to an Fw190 which presumably was one he was chasing... Neal buried at Rathenow. I have him as "lost in aerial combat' in my own records Regards, Bill |
Revisions & Elaborations
Mission 327: Target Berlin BOMBERS 751 Assigned 679 Take Off 669 Combat Sorties 640 Bomb Targets FIGHTERS 814 Combat Sorties 1493 Total Combat Sorties 669 BOMBERS (446 B-17s & 233 B-24s) 814 FIGHTERS (117 P-38s, 463 P-47s, 234 P-51s) 1493 TOTAL (P-47s & P-51s from 8th & 9th Air Forces) 1st ? Division 210 of 228 B-17s bomb Berlin; 2nd ? Division 218 B-17s to Berlin; 158 Hit Primary, 24 Hit Magdeburg, 10 Hit Brandenburg & 4 hit targets of opportunity; 3rd ? Division 212 of 233 B-24s bomb Berlin; Mission 328: 4 of 4 B-17s drop 1.06 million leaflets on 21 towns in Northern France and The Netherlands without loss. 14 B-24s are dispatched on CARPETBAGGER missions without loss. TACTICAL OPERATIONS (Ninth Air Force): 217 B-26s dispatched to bomb marshalling yards in France abort the mission because of heavy cloud cover over the target area. Lost Beyond Repair Damaged 10 B-17s 150 B-17s 28 B-17s 161 B-17s 38 B-17s 311 B-17s 25 B-24s 2 B-24s 121 B-24s 63 Bombers 2 B-24s 432 Bombers Bomber Casualties 1 KIA 7 WIA 100 MIA 4 KIA 20 WIA 260 MIA 13 KIA 11 WIA 246 MIA 18 KIA 38 WIA 606 MIA Fighter Casualties 1 WIA 12 MIA Total Casualties 18 KIA 39 WIA 618 MIA Fighters Lost Beyond Repair Damaged Lost /Damaged 463 P-47s 1 P-47 16 P-47s 17 P-47s 234 P-51s 10 P-51s 7 P-51s 17 P-51s 117 P-38s 3 P-38s 7 P-38s 10 P-38s 814 Fighters 13 Lost 1 Beyond Repair 30 Damaged 44 Lost /Damaged 1st ? Division -210 of 228 B-17s bomb Berlin; 10 B-17s are lost and 150 damaged; 1 KIA, 7 WIA and 100 MIA. 2nd ? Division -218 B-17s dispatched to Berlin; 158 hit Primary, 24 hit Magdeburg, 10 hit Brandenburg and 4 hit targets of opportunity; 28 B-17s are lost and 161 damaged; 4 KIA, 20 WIA and 260 MIA. 3rd ? Division -212 of 233 B-24s bomb Berlin; 25 B-24s are lost, 2 damaged beyond repair and 121 damaged; 13 KIA, 11 WIA and 246 MIA. Escort is provided by 117 P-38s, 463 Eighth and Ninth Air Force P-47s and 234 Eighth and Ninth Air Force P-51s; 3 P-38s and 10 P-51s are lost; 1 P-47 is damaged beyond repair; 7 P-38s, 16 P-47s and 7 P-51s are damaged; 1 WIA and 12 MIA. On 29 Apr 44, of 751 ‘Mighty 8th’ bombers taking off for Berlin on Mission 327, 669 were credited with a combat sortie. 814 Fighters (Fighters or Gunners/Fighters claim 95-33-48 Luftwaffe aircraft) -63 Bombers Fail to Return (38 B-17s & 25 B-24s) –apparently 47 were lost to Lufwaffe fighters –at least 9 were lost to Flak –7 lost to ??? -432 Bombers Damaged (325 to Flak –apparently 107 to Fighters/Fighters & Flak) 2 Category E Damage B-24s ? Category D Damage ? Category C Damage ? Category B Damage ? Category A Damage -13 Fighters Fail to Return (10 P-51s, 3 P-38s) -31 Fighters Damaged 1 Category E Damage P-47 ? Category D Damage ? Category C Damage ? Category B Damage ? Category A Damage 77 U.S. Aircraft Failed to Return 21-28 Luftwaffe Aircraft are Lost -Breakdown? I counted 83 Luftwaffe Victory claims, 5 Endgültige Vernichtung (Final Destruction of Cripples), and 26 Herausabschüß Claims (HSS/Bomber Separated From Formation –i.e. Crippled) for a total of 114 Luftwaffe Claims from my 25 Dec 04 version of Tony Woods Claims List including (201 and 202 from Heinz Bär and –surprise, surprise- No. 274 from my old acquaintance Günther Rall who had just returned from the Ostfront (The controversial Gottfried Dulias & I had breakfast with him the morning after a NASM symposium in 2002). A careful evaluation indicates the Luftwaffe Claimed a total of 88 Aircraft Definitely Shot Down –a caution to historians to distinguish between Abschüsse (Outright Victory Claims), Endgültige Vernichtung (Final Destruction of Cripples), and HSS (Bomber Separated From Formation) claims. Since it seems that as the Luftwaffe claimed 88 aircraft shot down and 61-67 USAAF Aircraft were shot down by aircraft, it seems they made a fairly reasonable estimate of their success (69.32%-78.41% can apparently be verified) in what must have been a hellacious fight. Moreover 12 of these 88 Claims were ASM ‘Pending Official Confirmation’ and thus cannot be counted as ‘Official Victories’ without subsequent documentation. Also very interseting is the fact that 2 of the 12 ASMs (Claims Pending Official Confirmation) belonged to none other than Günther Rall (his 274th) and Heinz Bär (his 202nd) -this single example suggests -to this writer at least- that the Luftwaffe’s Experten did not receive special consideration in assesing their claims. 83 Abschüsse (Outright Victory Claims) (12 of which were Pending Official Confirmation) 5 Endgültige Vernichtung Claims (Final Destruction of HSS or Cripples) 88 Total Victory Claims + 26 HSS Claims (Bomber Separated From Formation -i.e. Crippled) 114 Total Claims 75 Bombers Claimed Shot Down 65 Bombers Officially Credited (+10 Pending Official Confirmation) ~54 of 63 Bombers Shot Down by Fighters –at least 9 Bombers lost to Flak (~55 of 75 Claimed Bombers Were Actually Shot Down ~72.00% Claim Accuracy) US FIGHTERS LOST 11 ‘Fighters’ Claimed Shot Down 10 ‘Fighters’ Officially Credited (+1 Pending Official Confirmation) 10 ‘Fighters’ Actually Failed to Return NOTE ‘Fighters’ in this instance indicates single engined fighters (P-51 or P-47) Maj. Hans-Joachim Jabs (50) also claimed 2 Spitfires in a perhaps unrelated action. (9 of 11 Claimed Single Engined Fighters Were Actually Shot Down 81.82% Claim Accuracy) 2 P-38s Claimed Shot Down 1 P-38 Officially Credited (+1 P-38 Pending Official Confirmation) 3 P-38 Actually Failed to Return (3 of 2 Claimed P-38s Were Actually Shot Down 150% Claim Accuracy) 52 B-17s Claimed Shot Down 46 B-17 Officially Credited (+6 Pending Official Confirmation) 38 B-17s Actually Failed to Return –Some were lost to Flak 29.04.44 Fw. Franz Busch: 1 5./JG 3 B-17 £ GC-7: 7.500 m. [N.E. Helmstedt] 10.52 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 211 29.04.44 Uffz. Kappler: 1 3./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GB, E.S.E. Braunschweig: 7.000 m. 10.57 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 37 29.04.44 Ofw. Brodbeck: 3 6./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GB-HB: 7.500 m. [Braunschweig] 10.58 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 81 29.04.44 Oblt. Georg-Peter Eder: 41 6./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GB-7: 7.500 m. [E. Braunschweig] 10.58 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 82 29.04.44 Ofw. Rudolf Hübl: 18 2./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GC-7: 5.000 m. [N.E. Königslutter] 11.01 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. - 29.04.44 Maj. Gerhard Michalski 3./JGr. z.b.V B-17 £ Schandelah: 7.000 m. [E. Brauschweig] 11.03 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 1 29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Schrangl: 5 Stab I./JG 11 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/FU N. Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 24 29.04.44 Fw. Otto Florian: 9 4./JG 3 B-17 £ N. Helmstedt: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 273 29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Weik: 27 10./JG 3 B-17 £ HB-1 Helmstedt: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 16 29.04.44 Ltn. Karl Paashaus: 21 5./JG 53 B-17 £ 10 km. E. Braunschweig: 7.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 77 29.04.44 Fhj.Fw. Walter Becker: 1 6./JG 3 B-17 £ Raum Helmstedt: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 120 29.04.44 Hptm. Fritz Keller: 8 Stab II./JG 27 B-17 £ N.E. Helmstedt: 6.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 39 29.04.44 Ltn. Dieter Zink: 7 Stab/JG 3 B-17 £ Helmstedt: 7.800 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 185 29.04.44 Ltn. Oscar Zimmermann: 17 6./JG 3 B-17 £ N.W. Magdeburg: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 121 29.04.44 Fw. Walter Köhne: 28 3./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GB E.S.E. Braunschweig: 6.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 36 29.04.44 Uffz. Gerhard Vivroux: 5 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ GB-9: 7.000 m. [Marienthal E. Königslutter] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 23 29.04.44 Fw. Kurt Röhrich: 9 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ GC-5: 7.000 m. [Calvörde N. Haldensleben] 11.06 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 24 29.04.44 Ltn. Werner Gerth: 8 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ GC-2: 7.000 m. [Miesterhorst] 11.07 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 25 29.04.44 Uffz. Oskar Bösch: 2 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ 5 km. N.W. Helmstedt: 7.000 m. 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 27 29.04.44 Uffz. Willi Maximowitz: 4 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ Hehlingen: 7.000 m. 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 26 29.04.44 Ltn. Richard Franz: n.l. Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ N. Oebisfelde: 7.000 m. 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 28 29.04.44 Ltn. Siegfried Müller: 6 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ GC-7: 7.000 m. [Haldensleben] 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 30 29.04.44 Oblt. Günther Seeger: 47 4./JG 53 B-17 £ HB-2: 7.000 m. [S.W. Königslutter] 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 139 29.04.44 Oblt. Ottmar Zehart: 3 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ GC-12: 7.000 m. [Miesterhorst] 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 29 29.04.44 Ltn. Richard Franz: 4 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ - 11.10 Reference: JG 3 List f. 356 29.04.44 Oblt. Walter Bohatsch: e.V. 3./JG 3 B-17 e.V. £ HE-8: 3.000 m. [N. Zerbst] 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 275 29.04.44 Ofw. Ernst Haase: 7 1./JG 302 B-17 £ Braunschweig-Wolfsburg tiefflug 100 m. Reference: WR JG 301-302 29.04.44 Ofw. Artur Groß: 6 2./JG 302 B-17 £ - - Reference: WR JG 301-302 29.04.44 Oblt. Heinz Seidel: 5 3./JG 302 B-17 £ - - Reference: WR JG 301-302 29.04.44 Uffz. Peine: n.b. 2./JG 1 B-17 e.V. £ - - Reference: JG 1 List f. 1207 29.04.44 Fw. Otto Florian: 10 4./JG 3 B-17 £ HE-4: 7.500 m. [Wiesenburg] 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 275 29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Weik: 28 10./JG 3 B-17 £ HD-3 Burg: 7.000 m. 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 18 29.04.44 Fw. Hans-Ulrich Jüng: 4 10./JG 3 B-17 £ HD-3 Burg: 7.500 m. 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 17 29.04.44 Uffz. Walter Loos: 9 11./JG 3 B-17 £ HD-3 Burg: 7.500 m. 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 19 29.04.44 Fw. Werner Dienst: 1 2./JG 302 B-17 £ Wennbostel N. Hannover: 8.500 m. 11.30 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 1 29.04.44 Gefr. illegible Ind.St. Erla B-17 £ Locations illegible 12.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 4 29.04.44 Uffz. Bruno Ostrowirtzki: 6 2./JG 3 B-17 £ HE-9: 3.000 m. [S.E. Reuden] 12.15 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 95 29.04.44 Uffz. Schult [sic] L.Beo.St. B-17 £ Locations illegible 12.39 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 2 29.04.44 Oblt. Rüdiger von Kirchmayr: 14 5./JG 1 B-17 £ N.E. Fallersleben: 5.500 m. 13.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 85 29.04.44 Oblt. Rüdiger von Kirchmayr: 15 5./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GB: 5.500 m. [area Wolfsburg] 13.12 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 86 29.04.44 Oblt. Engau: 1 2./JG 11 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/FT: 5.800 m. [Nienburg] 13.27 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 99 29.04.44 Hptm. Walter Barte Stab III./NJG 3 B-17 £ FD-47: 4.300 m. [Jävenitz S.W. Stendal] 13.28 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 13 29.04.44 Oblt. Waldemar Radener: - 7./JG 26 B-17 £ 5 km. S.E. Roubaix: no height 13.35 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 93 29.04.44 Ofw. Gerhard Vogt: 26 5./JG 26 B-17 £ N.E. St. Omer: 1.000 m. 14.30 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 119 29.04.44 Fw. Otto Erhardt: 8 10./JG 3 B-17 £ - - Reference: JG 3 List f. 356 29.04.44 Fw. Peter Crump: e.V. 7./JG 26 B-17 e.V. £ 5 km. S. Reims 13.30 Reference: DLC JG 26 29.04.44 Ltn. Karlheinz Kapp: 10 4./JG 27 B-17 £ GB: 6.500 m. [N.E. Braunschweig] 10.55 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Fw. Rudolf Philipp: 6 5./JG 27 B-17 £ N.E. Braunschweig: 6.500 m. 11.00 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Fw. Johannes Hoyer: 3 6./JG 3 B-17 £ u. Magdeburg: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Uffz. Kurt Sossdorf: 1 5./JG 3 B-17 £ GC-4: 8.400 m. [Ratzlingen E. Wolfsburg] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Ltn. Werner Gerth: 7 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ FB-FC: 7.000 m. [area N.E. Gifhorn] 11.07 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Fw. Alexander: 1 4./JG 53 B-17 £ Bremen: 6.000 m. 13.40 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 23 B-24s Claimed Shot Down 19 B-24 Officially Credited (+4 Pending Official Confirmation) 25 B-24s Actually Failed to Return –Some were lost to Flak 29.04.44 Uffz. Walbeck: 2 3./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FT N.W.Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.03 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 32 29.04.44 Oblt. Hans-Heinrich Koenig: 22 3./JG 11 B-24 £ FU: N. Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.03 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 31 29.04.44 Uffz. Schumacher: 2 2./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU W. Celle: 6.000 m. 11.04 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 8 29.04.44 Uffz. Folger: 4 1./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU: 7.000 m. [N. Hannover] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 26 29.04.44 Uffz. Loewe: 1 1./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU: 7.000 m. [N. Hannover] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 21 29.04.44 Fhj.Ofw. Schunke: 1 Stab I./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S / FU Raum Eize: 7.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 20 29.04.44 Oblt. Hans-Heinrich Koenig: 23 3./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU nordl.Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 29 29.04.44 Ofw. Heinz Stöwer: 14 3./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU nordl. Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.07 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 30 29.04.44 Fw. Birkigt: 3 3./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FA nordl. Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 33 29.04.44 Fw. Janke: 2 3./JG 3 B-24 £ GC: 6.500 m. [area Haldensleben] 13.03 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 18 29.04.44 Fw. Hans-Georg Karl: 2 1./JG 1 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FS: 5.000 m. [area Sulingen] 13.13 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 27 29.04.44 Ltn. Windbichler: 3 2./JG 1 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU: 5.000 m. [S.E. Verden] 13.15 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 28 29.04.44 Gefr. Friedrich: 1 Stab/JG 11 B-24 £ ES-FS: 5.000 m. [Bassum-Sulingen] 13.25 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 7 29.04.44 Hptm. Gerhard Sommer: 19 4./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FS-FR Raum Diepholz: 6.000 m. 13.30 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 69 29.04.44 Fw. Wilhelm Fest: 10 5./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FS-6 to GS W. Minden: 6.500 m. 13.40 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 29 29.04.44 Uffz. Tempel: 1 4./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FS-FR: 6.000 m. [area Diepholz] 13.30-45 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 70 29.04.44 Uffz. Marx: 1 4./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FS-FR: 6.000 m. [area Diepholz] 13.30-45 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 71 29.04.44 Ofw. Hamacher: e.V. 2./JG 11 B-24 e.V. £ 05 Ost S/FR-3: 2.500 m. [W. Barnstorf] 13.25 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 38 29.04.44 Fw. Jansen: e.V. 5./JG 1 B-24 e.V. £ - - Reference: JG 1 List f. 1207 29.04.44 Maj. Heinz Bär: 202 Stab II./JG 1 B-24 £ GB: 6.500 m. [area N.E. Braunschweig] 10.59 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: ASM 29.04.44 Obfhr. Hodes: 1 2./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU Raum Celle: 7.000 m. 11.07 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: ASM 29.04.44 Fhj.Ofw. Eberhard Kröker: 7 6./JG 302 B-24 £ Leipkau: 7.000 m. 11.18 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: ASM 29.04.44 Oblt. Hans-Heinrich Koenig: 25 3./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FT Nienburg: 6.000 m. 13.56 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 14 US Fighters Lost (10 P-51s, 3 P-38s, and 1 P-47) 4 P-47s Claimed Shot Down & Officially Credited -1 P-47 Actually Failed to Return (25%) 29.04.44 Maj. Heinz Bär: 201 Stab II./JG 1 P-47 £ 05 Ost S/HB N.W.Halberstadt 10.56 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 68 29.04.44 Oblt. Georg-Peter Eder: 42 6./JG 1 P-47 £ 05 Ost S/HB-1 S.E.Braunschweig: 300 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 86 29.04.44 Oblt. Rüdiger von Kirchmayr: 13 5./JG 1 P-47 £ 05 Ost S/GB-HB ostl. Braunschweig 11.05 Reference: JG 1 List f. 1207 29.04.44 Obgefr. Triebel: n.b. 6./JG 1 P-47 £ 05 Ost S/GB Raum Braunschweig - Reference: JG 1 List f. 1207 2 P-38s Claimed Shot Down 1 P-38 Officially Credited (+1 P-38 Pending Official Confirmation) 3 P-38s Actually Failed to Return 29.04.44 Fhj.Ofw. Neuberger: 2 Stab II./JG 11 P-38 £ 05 Ost S/FA nordl. Hannover: 8.700 m. 11.30 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 22 29.04.44 Maj. Günther Rall: 274 Stab II./JG 11 P-38 £ 05 Ost S/FU nordl. Hannover: 8.000 m. 11.15 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: ASM 7 P-51 Claimed Shot Down 6 P-51s Officially Credited (+1 Pending Official Confirmation) 10 P-51s Actually Fail to Return -Perhaps some P-51s were Identified as P-47s from Rear) 29.04.44 Oblt. Heinz Knoke: 25 5./JG 11 P-51 £ Fl.Pl. Braunschweig-Waggum: 40 m. 11.50 - 12.00 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 28 29.04.44 Uffz. Drühe: 2 * 5./JG 11 P-51 £ - - Reference: JG 11 List f. 1207 29.04.44 Ltn. Lüchau: 17 * 6./JG 11 P-51 £ - - Reference: JG 11 List f. 1207 29.04.44 Ltn. Georg Füreder: 17 * 5./JG 11 P-51 £ - - Reference: JG 11 List f. 1207 29.04.44 Fw. Bubel: 1 4./JG 11 P-51 £ 05 Ost S/FS-FR Diepholz area: 6.000 m. - Reference: JG 11 List f. 1207 29.04.44 Oblt. Heinz Seidel: 4 3./JG 302 P-51 £ - - Reference: WR JG 301-302 29.04.44 Obfhr. Grill: 1 Stab II./JG 11 P-51 £ HA-HB/JA-JB: 5.000 m. [Hildesheim] 11.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 89 TOTAL Victory Claims 77 Official Victories (12 Victories Pending Official Verification) JaFüI. Jagdkorps/Lfl. Reich: 29.04.44 Ltn. Erwin Baumgarten: 3 5./JG 27 B-17 HSS £ N.E. Braunschweig: 6.500 m. 10.55 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Ofw. Rudolf Piffer: 26 2./JG 1 B-17 HSS £ 05 OstS/HC: 5.000 m. [N. Oschersleben] 10.58 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Uffz. Fritz Rathofer: 3 3./JG 1 B-17 HSS £ HB-HC: 7.000 m. [E. Schöppenstedt] 10.58 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Oblt. Karl-Heinz Seeler: 4 5./JG 302 B-17 HSS £ Helmstedt: 7.000 m. 11.04 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Ofw. Dahlhöfer: 1 2./JG 11 B-24 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FU Raum Celle: 7.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Fw. Grube: 1 12./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ Helmstedt: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Iffland: 11 10./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ HC-4: 7.500 m. [Barneburg] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Uffz. Max Reichenberger: 3 5./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ 15 Ost S / GC-4: 8.400 m. [Oebisfelde] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Fw. Hans Schäfer: 13 10./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ GC-14: no height [E. Oebisfelde] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Uffz. Helmut Keune: 1 Sturmst. 1 B-17 HSS £ FB-FC: 7.000 m. [Warenholz-Klötze] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Uffz. Oskar Bösch: 1 Sturmst. 1 B-17 HSS £ FB-FC: 7.000 m. [area N.E. Gifhorn] 11.07 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Fw. Wolfgang Kosse: 22 Sturmst. 1 B-17 HSS £ - 11.10 Reference: JG 3 List f. 356 29.04.44 Fw. Wolfgang Kosse: 23 Sturmst. 1 B-17 HSS £ - 11.15 Reference: JG 3 List f. 356 29.04.44 Uffz. Helmut Wichmann: 1 12./JG 3 B-24 HSS £ FB Gardelegen: 5.000 m. 13.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Hptm. Wilhelm Moritz: 35 Stab IV./JG 3 B-24 HSS £ FC-EC: 5.000 m. [area Salzwedel-Klötz] 13.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Rachner: 7 12./JG 3 B-24 HSS £ FB: 5.000 m. [area N.E. Gifhorn] 13.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Uffz. Oskar Fischer: 2 12./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ FB Gardelegen: 5.000 m. 13.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Obfhr. Erhard Nolting: 5 Stab IV./JG 3 B-24 HSS £ FC-EC: 5.000 m. [area Salzwedel-Klötz] 13.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Schrangl: 24 Stab I./JG 11 B-17 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FT-FS: 6.000 m. [S.W. Verden] 13.25 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Gefr. Schwesinger: 7 2./JG 11 B-17 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FT: 5.800 m. [Nienburg] 13.25 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Oblt. Hans-Heinrich Koenig: 24 3./JG 11 B-24 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FS-FT Raum Nienburg: 5.000 m. 13.25 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Ofw. Jantzen: 1 2./JG 11 B-24 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FT: 5.800 m. [area Nienburg] 13.25 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. - 29.04.44 Ofw. Gahr: 1 Stab/JG 11 B-17 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FT-FS S.W.Verden: 7.000 m. 13.26 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Uffz. Pfeffer: 3 Stab/JG 11 B-24 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FT-FS S.W.Verden: 6.000 m. 13.26 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Uffz. Walter Dobrath: 1 1./JG 1 B-24 HSS £ 05 Ost S/ER Raum Vechta: 5.500 m. 13.35 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Uffz. Willi Unger: 8 11./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ - - Reference: JG 3 List f. 356 26 HSS (Bombers Crippled) (Some of these were later shot down inluding 5 ‘Final Destruction’ of Cripples by Fighters -30 Bombers returned home Damaged by Fighters) Type Serial # Group Sqdn. MACR # Comments B-17 42-31353 91 323 12391 B-17 42-3513 92 326 4260 B-17 42-97319 92 326 4261 B-17 42-31498 94 331 4467 B-17 42-102520 94 332 4468 B-17 42-37988 95 336 4470 B-17 42-31320 95 412 4469 B-17 42-3158 303 427 4476 B-17 42-31241 303 427 4463 ‘Spirit of Wanett’ Crash Landed in Denmark -Hit By Flak B-17 42-31556 306 368 4240 B-17 42-102448 384 545 4242 B-17 42-31773 385 548 4456 B-17 42-97559 385 549 4459 B-17 42-97078 385 550 4457 B-17 42-107045 385 550 4460 B-17 42-31133 385 551 4453 B-17 42-31174 385 551 4454 B-17 42-97226 385 551 4458 B-17 42-31393 388 560 4243 B-17 42-37980 388 562 4244 B-17 42-102526 390 571 4245 B-17 42-31226 401 613 4345 B-17 42-31116 401 614 4344 B-17 42-31521 401 615 4346 B-17 42-31144 447 708 4247 B-17 42-37866 447 708 4250 B-17 42-37868 447 708 4251 B-17 42-102479 447 708 4255 B-17 42-102421 447 709 4254 B-17 42-31217 447 710 4250 B-17 42-97135 447 710 4252 B-17 42-31124 447 711 4246 B-17 42-31161 447 711 4248 B-17 42-97501 447 711 4253 B-17 42-39981 452 728 4450 B-17 42-39920 452 729 4449 Type Serial # Group Sqdn. MACR # Comments B-24 42-100279 44 67 4464 B-24 41-29471 44 68 4472 B-24 41-28676 389 564 4494 B-24 41-28784 389 564 5473 B-24 42-110062 392 576 4445 B-24 42-100371 392 576 4487 B-24 41-28759 392 577 4471 B-24 42-100100 392 578 4444 B-24 42-110105 392 578 4446 B-24 42-7510 392 579 4462 B-24 42-100360 446 706 4485 B-24 42-7655 448 712 4486 B-24 41-29523 448 713 4489 B-24 42-99988 448 714 4491 B-24 42-7683 448 714 4487 B-24 42-52435 448 715 4490 B-24 41-29479 448 715 4488 ‘Gypsy Queen’ Crash Landed in Denmark -Hit By Flak B-24 42-64354 449 4249 B-24 41-29582 450 4614 B-24 41-29376 450 4837 B-24 41-29269 450 4855 B-24 42-50322 453 734 4493 B-24 42-52301 453 732 4940 B-24 41-29265 454 4629 B-24H 41-28718 458 752 4451 Landed at Rinkaby, Sweden after being attacked at 11:04 in the vicinity of Celie by a FW 190. B-24 41-29399 466 784 4448 B-24 41-28754 466 787 4447 B-24 41-28749 467 790 4943 B-24 42-52506 467 788 4944 B-24 41-28730 467 4942 Type Serial # Group Sqdn. MACR # Comments P-51 43-6646 4 334 4541 P-51 42-106682 4 334 4671 P-51 43-6424 354 353 4422 P-51 43-6918 354 355 4420 P-51 43-12383 354 355 4434 P-51 43-6577 355 354 4547 P-51 42-106485 363 380 4435 P-51 43-6513 363 380 4431 P-51 43-6804 363 380 4432 P-51 43-6852 363 380 5130 Type Serial # Group Sqdn. MACR # Comments P-38 42-67447 364 384 4406 P-38 42-67438 364 384 4407 P-38 42-67417 364 384 4408 P-38 42-66985 51 4510 P-38 42-67007 51 4799 Type Serial # Group Sqdn. MACR # Comments P-47 42-22687 58 5808 Type Serial # Group Sqdn. MACR # Comments F-5 42-13124 5 On-line resource http://www.b24.net/stories/annette.htm |
Re: Most One Sided Luftwaffe Victory over the 8th Air Force
Rob,
Great work, but your sum on claims is IMHO incorrect. It stands to reason that adding HSS claims to the total leads to instant overclaim, since no kill was claimed in the first place - Viermot was forced to leave the formation, not downed. The HSS, isn't a claim for a kill, so it should not be added to the total claims. Leaves you with 84 + 5 = 89 total victory claims |
Re: Most One Sided Luftwaffe Victory over the 8th Air Force
Ruy,
When I first saw you had become involved in this discussion, you got me nervous, as I thought you were banishing me for life for excessively long posts! ;-) I think you misunderstood my intent in distinguishing and including HSS claims. A problem I am cautioning researchers to consider is that the Germans defined Victories, differently than in the West. The first (revised) Total of (88) is what we in the west would understand as Kills. However, the Luftwaffe deemed that any pilot who had the courage to knock a Viermot out of a Pulk, was worthy of being bestoyed a Luftsiege. Thus the Jagdwaffe claimed 88 ‘Kills’ but 114 ‘Victories’. Like you my point is that one should ignore HSS, in assessing the reliability of German claims. Thus when I calculated Jagdwaffe claim accuracy, I divided estimated 8th AF losses to Luftwaff Fighters (61-69) by 88 to achieve a reasonable 69.32%-78.41% Claim Veracity. 83 Abschüsse (Outright Victory Claims) (12 of which were Pending Official Confirmation) 5 Endgültige Vernichtung Claims (Final Destruction of HSS or Cripples) 88 Total Victory Claims + 26 HSS Claims (Bomber Separated From Formation -i.e. Crippled) 114 Total Claims Thanks for TOCH! Rob |
Revisions
Mission 327: 29 April 1944: Target -Friedrichstrasse Railroad Station Berlin
Assigned Take Off Combat Sorties Bomb Targets Bombers 751 679 669 618 Fighters 814 TOTAL 1493 3rd Division (B-17) -Leading Division 263 Assigned -228 Combat Sorties -210 B-17s Bomb Berlin 10 B-17s are lost & 150 damaged 1 KIA 7 WIA & 100 MIA. 1st Division (B-17) 236 Assigned -218 Combat Sorties -196 Bomb Target (158 Berlin, 24 Magdeburg,10 Brandenburg, 4 Opportunity Targets) 28 B-17s are lost & 161 damaged 4 KIA 20 WIA & 260 MIA 2nd Division (B-24) Ran into Scattered Groups of 1st Division over Target Area 252 Assigned -233 Combat Sorties -212 B-17s Bomb Berlin 25 B-24s are lost, 2 damaged beyond repair & 121 damaged 13 KIA 11 WIA & 246 MIA Fighter Escort 117 P-38s, 463 Eighth & Ninth Air Force P-47s & 234 Eighth & Ninth Air Force P-51s 3 P-38s & 10 P-51s are lost; 1 P-47 is damaged beyond repair 7 P-38s, 16 P-47s & 7 P-51s are damaged 1 WIA & 12 MIA Division Assigned Sortie Bomb Target 3rd Division (B-17) 263 228 210 –Leading Division 1st Division (B-17) 236 218 196 (158 Berlin/24 Magdeburg/10 Brandenburg/4 Opportunity Targets) B-17s 499 446 406 2nd Division (B-24) 252 233 212 –Trailing Division TOTAL 751 679 618 Mission 327 Casualties Bomber Casualties 1 KIA 7 WIA 100 MIA (3rd Division) -Leading Division 4 KIA 20 WIA 260 MIA (1st Division) 13 KIA 11 WIA 246 MIA (2nd Division) -Trailing Division 18 KIA 38 WIA 606 MIA Fighter Casualties 1 WIA 12 MIA Total Casualties 18 KIA 39 WIA 618 MIA Mission 327 Losses Lost Beyond Repair Damaged 10 B-17s 150 B-17s (3rd Division) –Leading Division 28 B-17s 161 B-17s (1st Division) 38 B-17s 311 B-17s 25 B-24s 2 B-24s 121 B-24s (2nd Division) –Trailing Division 63 Bombers 2 B-24s 432 Bombers (P-47s & P-51s -8th/9th Air Forces) Combat Sorties Bombers Lost Beyond Repair Damaged Lost /Damaged 3rd Division 10 B-17s 150 B-17s 160 B-17s 1st Division 28 B-17s 161 B-17s 189 B-17s 446 B-17s 38 B-17s 311 B-17s 349 B-17s 233 B-24s 25 B-24s 2 B-24s 121 B-24s 148 B-24s 679 Bombers 63 Bombers 2 B-24s 432 Bombers 497 Bombers 63 Bombers Fail to Return –Apparently 47 Bombers were lost to Lufwaffe fighters –At least 9 Bombers were lost to Flak –7 Bombers lost to ??? 432 Bombers Damaged (325 to Flak -Apparently 107 to Fighters/Fighters & Flak) 2 Category E Damage (B-24s Lost BEFORE Landing) ? Category D Damage ? Category C Damage ? Category B Damage ? Category A Damage Fighters Lost Beyond Repair Damaged Lost /Damaged 463 P-47s 1 P-47 16 P-47s 17 P-47s 234 P-51s 10 P-51s 7 P-51s 17 P-51s 117 P-38s 3 P-38s 7 P-38s 10 P-38s 814 Fighters 13 Lost 1 Beyond Repair 30 Damaged 44 Lost /Damaged 31 Fighters Damaged 1 Category E Damage P-47 ? Category D Damage ? Category C Damage ? Category B Damage ? Category A Damage TOTAL Lost Beyond Repair Damaged Lost /Damaged 679 Bombers 63 Bombers 2 B-24s 432 Bombers 497 Bombers 814 Fighters 13 Fighters 1 P-47 30 Fighters 44 Fighters 1493 Sorties 76 Lost 3 Beyond Repair 462 Damaged 541 Lost /Damaged USAAF Fighters/Gunners? Combat Claims 95 Shot Down 33 Probable 48 Damaged 21-28 Luftwaffe Aircraft are Lost -Breakdown? Secondary/Diversionary Missions Mission 328: 4 of 4 B-17s drop 1.06 million leaflets on 21 towns in Northern France and The Netherlands without loss. 14 B-24s are dispatched on CARPETBAGGER missions without loss. TACTICAL OPERATIONS (9th Air Force): 217 B-26s dispatched to bomb marshalling yards in France abort the mission because of heavy cloud cover over the target area. I counted 83 Luftwaffe Victory claims, 5 Endgültige Vernichtung (Final Destruction of Cripples), and 26 Herausabschüß Claims (HSS/Bomber Separated From Formation –i.e. Crippled) for a total of 114 Luftwaffe Claims from my 25 Dec 04 version of Tony Woods Claims List including (201 and 202 from Heinz Bär and –surprise, surprise- No. 274 from my old acquaintance Günther Rall who had just returned from the Ostfront (The controversial Gottfried Dulias & I had breakfast with him the morning after a NASM symposium in 2002). A careful evaluation indicates the Luftwaffe Claimed a total of 88 Aircraft Definitely Shot Down –a caution to historians to distinguish between Abschüsse (Outright Victory Claims), Endgültige Vernichtung (Final Destruction of Cripples), and HSS (Bomber Separated From Formation) claims. Since it seems that as the Luftwaffe claimed 88 aircraft shot down and 61-67 USAAF Aircraft were shot down by aircraft, it seems they made a fairly reasonable estimate of their success (69.32%-78.41% can apparently be verified) in what must have been a hellacious fight. Moreover 12 of these 88 Claims were ASM ‘Pending Official Confirmation’ and thus cannot be counted as ‘Official Victories’ without subsequent documentation. Also very interseting is the fact that 2 of the 12 ASMs (Claims Pending Official Confirmation) belonged to none other than Günther Rall (his 274th) and Heinz Bär (his 202nd) - suggesting that the Luftwaffe’s Experten did not receive special consideration in assesing their claims. 83 Abschüsse (Outright Victory Claims) (12 of which were Pending Official Confirmation) 5 Endgültige Vernichtung Claims (Final Destruction of HSS or Cripples) 88 Total Victory Claims + 26 HSS Claims (Bomber Separated From Formation -i.e. Crippled) 114 Total Claims 75 Bombers Claimed Shot Down 65 Bombers Officially Credited (+10 Pending Official Confirmation) ~54 of 63 Bombers Shot Down by Fighters –at least 9 Bombers lost to Flak (~55 of 75 Claimed Bombers Were Actually Shot Down ~72.00% Claim Accuracy) US FIGHTERS LOST 11 ‘Fighters’ Claimed Shot Down 10 ‘Fighters’ Officially Credited (+1 Pending Official Confirmation) 10 ‘Fighters’ Actually Failed to Return NOTE ‘Fighters’ in this instance indicates single engined fighters (P-51 or P-47) Maj. Hans-Joachim Jabs (50) also claimed 2 Spitfires in a perhaps unrelated action. (9 of 11 Claimed Single Engined Fighters Were Actually Shot Down 81.82% Claim Accuracy) 2 P-38s Claimed Shot Down 1 P-38 Officially Credited (+1 P-38 Pending Official Confirmation) 3 P-38 Actually Failed to Return (3 of 2 Claimed P-38s Were Actually Shot Down 150% Claim Accuracy) 52 B-17s Claimed Shot Down 46 B-17 Officially Credited (+6 Pending Official Confirmation) 38 B-17s Actually Failed to Return –Some were lost to Flak 29.04.44 Fw. Franz Busch: 1 5./JG 3 B-17 £ GC-7: 7.500 m. [N.E. Helmstedt] 10.52 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 211 29.04.44 Uffz. Kappler: 1 3./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GB, E.S.E. Braunschweig: 7.000 m. 10.57 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 37 29.04.44 Ofw. Brodbeck: 3 6./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GB-HB: 7.500 m. [Braunschweig] 10.58 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 81 29.04.44 Oblt. Georg-Peter Eder: 41 6./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GB-7: 7.500 m. [E. Braunschweig] 10.58 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 82 29.04.44 Ofw. Rudolf Hübl: 18 2./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GC-7: 5.000 m. [N.E. Königslutter] 11.01 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. - 29.04.44 Maj. Gerhard Michalski 3./JGr. z.b.V B-17 £ Schandelah: 7.000 m. [E. Brauschweig] 11.03 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 1 29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Schrangl: 5 Stab I./JG 11 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/FU N. Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 24 29.04.44 Fw. Otto Florian: 9 4./JG 3 B-17 £ N. Helmstedt: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 273 29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Weik: 27 10./JG 3 B-17 £ HB-1 Helmstedt: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 16 29.04.44 Ltn. Karl Paashaus: 21 5./JG 53 B-17 £ 10 km. E. Braunschweig: 7.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 77 29.04.44 Fhj.Fw. Walter Becker: 1 6./JG 3 B-17 £ Raum Helmstedt: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 120 29.04.44 Hptm. Fritz Keller: 8 Stab II./JG 27 B-17 £ N.E. Helmstedt: 6.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 39 29.04.44 Ltn. Dieter Zink: 7 Stab/JG 3 B-17 £ Helmstedt: 7.800 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 185 29.04.44 Ltn. Oscar Zimmermann: 17 6./JG 3 B-17 £ N.W. Magdeburg: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 121 29.04.44 Fw. Walter Köhne: 28 3./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GB E.S.E. Braunschweig: 6.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 36 29.04.44 Uffz. Gerhard Vivroux: 5 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ GB-9: 7.000 m. [Marienthal E. Königslutter] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 23 29.04.44 Fw. Kurt Röhrich: 9 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ GC-5: 7.000 m. [Calvörde N. Haldensleben] 11.06 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 24 29.04.44 Ltn. Werner Gerth: 8 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ GC-2: 7.000 m. [Miesterhorst] 11.07 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 25 29.04.44 Uffz. Oskar Bösch: 2 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ 5 km. N.W. Helmstedt: 7.000 m. 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 27 29.04.44 Uffz. Willi Maximowitz: 4 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ Hehlingen: 7.000 m. 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 26 29.04.44 Ltn. Richard Franz: n.l. Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ N. Oebisfelde: 7.000 m. 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 28 29.04.44 Ltn. Siegfried Müller: 6 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ GC-7: 7.000 m. [Haldensleben] 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 30 29.04.44 Oblt. Günther Seeger: 47 4./JG 53 B-17 £ HB-2: 7.000 m. [S.W. Königslutter] 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 139 29.04.44 Oblt. Ottmar Zehart: 3 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ GC-12: 7.000 m. [Miesterhorst] 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 29 29.04.44 Ltn. Richard Franz: 4 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ - 11.10 Reference: JG 3 List f. 356 29.04.44 Oblt. Walter Bohatsch: e.V. 3./JG 3 B-17 e.V. £ HE-8: 3.000 m. [N. Zerbst] 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 275 29.04.44 Ofw. Ernst Haase: 7 1./JG 302 B-17 £ Braunschweig-Wolfsburg tiefflug 100 m. Reference: WR JG 301-302 29.04.44 Ofw. Artur Groß: 6 2./JG 302 B-17 £ - - Reference: WR JG 301-302 29.04.44 Oblt. Heinz Seidel: 5 3./JG 302 B-17 £ - - Reference: WR JG 301-302 29.04.44 Uffz. Peine: n.b. 2./JG 1 B-17 e.V. £ - - Reference: JG 1 List f. 1207 29.04.44 Fw. Otto Florian: 10 4./JG 3 B-17 £ HE-4: 7.500 m. [Wiesenburg] 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 275 29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Weik: 28 10./JG 3 B-17 £ HD-3 Burg: 7.000 m. 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 18 29.04.44 Fw. Hans-Ulrich Jüng: 4 10./JG 3 B-17 £ HD-3 Burg: 7.500 m. 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 17 29.04.44 Uffz. Walter Loos: 9 11./JG 3 B-17 £ HD-3 Burg: 7.500 m. 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 19 29.04.44 Fw. Werner Dienst: 1 2./JG 302 B-17 £ Wennbostel N. Hannover: 8.500 m. 11.30 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 1 29.04.44 Gefr. illegible Ind.St. Erla B-17 £ Locations illegible 12.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 4 29.04.44 Uffz. Bruno Ostrowirtzki: 6 2./JG 3 B-17 £ HE-9: 3.000 m. [S.E. Reuden] 12.15 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 95 29.04.44 Uffz. Schult [sic] L.Beo.St. B-17 £ Locations illegible 12.39 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 2 29.04.44 Oblt. Rüdiger von Kirchmayr: 14 5./JG 1 B-17 £ N.E. Fallersleben: 5.500 m. 13.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 85 29.04.44 Oblt. Rüdiger von Kirchmayr: 15 5./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GB: 5.500 m. [area Wolfsburg] 13.12 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 86 29.04.44 Oblt. Engau: 1 2./JG 11 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/FT: 5.800 m. [Nienburg] 13.27 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 99 29.04.44 Hptm. Walter Barte Stab III./NJG 3 B-17 £ FD-47: 4.300 m. [Jävenitz S.W. Stendal] 13.28 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 13 29.04.44 Oblt. Waldemar Radener: - 7./JG 26 B-17 £ 5 km. S.E. Roubaix: no height 13.35 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 93 29.04.44 Ofw. Gerhard Vogt: 26 5./JG 26 B-17 £ N.E. St. Omer: 1.000 m. 14.30 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 119 29.04.44 Fw. Otto Erhardt: 8 10./JG 3 B-17 £ - - Reference: JG 3 List f. 356 29.04.44 Fw. Peter Crump: e.V. 7./JG 26 B-17 e.V. £ 5 km. S. Reims 13.30 Reference: DLC JG 26 29.04.44 Ltn. Karlheinz Kapp: 10 4./JG 27 B-17 £ GB: 6.500 m. [N.E. Braunschweig] 10.55 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Fw. Rudolf Philipp: 6 5./JG 27 B-17 £ N.E. Braunschweig: 6.500 m. 11.00 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Fw. Johannes Hoyer: 3 6./JG 3 B-17 £ u. Magdeburg: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Uffz. Kurt Sossdorf: 1 5./JG 3 B-17 £ GC-4: 8.400 m. [Ratzlingen E. Wolfsburg] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Ltn. Werner Gerth: 7 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ FB-FC: 7.000 m. [area N.E. Gifhorn] 11.07 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Fw. Alexander: 1 4./JG 53 B-17 £ Bremen: 6.000 m. 13.40 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 23 B-24s Claimed Shot Down 19 B-24 Officially Credited (+4 Pending Official Confirmation) 25 B-24s Actually Failed to Return –Some were lost to Flak 29.04.44 Uffz. Walbeck: 2 3./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FT N.W.Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.03 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 32 29.04.44 Oblt. Hans-Heinrich Koenig: 22 3./JG 11 B-24 £ FU: N. Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.03 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 31 29.04.44 Uffz. Schumacher: 2 2./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU W. Celle: 6.000 m. 11.04 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 8 29.04.44 Uffz. Folger: 4 1./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU: 7.000 m. [N. Hannover] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 26 29.04.44 Uffz. Loewe: 1 1./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU: 7.000 m. [N. Hannover] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 21 29.04.44 Fhj.Ofw. Schunke: 1 Stab I./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S / FU Raum Eize: 7.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 20 29.04.44 Oblt. Hans-Heinrich Koenig: 23 3./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU nordl.Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 29 29.04.44 Ofw. Heinz Stöwer: 14 3./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU nordl. Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.07 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 30 29.04.44 Fw. Birkigt: 3 3./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FA nordl. Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 33 29.04.44 Fw. Janke: 2 3./JG 3 B-24 £ GC: 6.500 m. [area Haldensleben] 13.03 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 18 29.04.44 Fw. Hans-Georg Karl: 2 1./JG 1 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FS: 5.000 m. [area Sulingen] 13.13 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 27 29.04.44 Ltn. Windbichler: 3 2./JG 1 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU: 5.000 m. [S.E. Verden] 13.15 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 28 29.04.44 Gefr. Friedrich: 1 Stab/JG 11 B-24 £ ES-FS: 5.000 m. [Bassum-Sulingen] 13.25 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 7 29.04.44 Hptm. Gerhard Sommer: 19 4./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FS-FR Raum Diepholz: 6.000 m. 13.30 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 69 29.04.44 Fw. Wilhelm Fest: 10 5./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FS-6 to GS W. Minden: 6.500 m. 13.40 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 29 29.04.44 Uffz. Tempel: 1 4./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FS-FR: 6.000 m. [area Diepholz] 13.30-45 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 70 29.04.44 Uffz. Marx: 1 4./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FS-FR: 6.000 m. [area Diepholz] 13.30-45 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 71 29.04.44 Ofw. Hamacher: e.V. 2./JG 11 B-24 e.V. £ 05 Ost S/FR-3: 2.500 m. [W. Barnstorf] 13.25 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 38 29.04.44 Fw. Jansen: e.V. 5./JG 1 B-24 e.V. £ - - Reference: JG 1 List f. 1207 29.04.44 Maj. Heinz Bär: 202 Stab II./JG 1 B-24 £ GB: 6.500 m. [area N.E. Braunschweig] 10.59 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: ASM 29.04.44 Obfhr. Hodes: 1 2./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU Raum Celle: 7.000 m. 11.07 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: ASM 29.04.44 Fhj.Ofw. Eberhard Kröker: 7 6./JG 302 B-24 £ Leipkau: 7.000 m. 11.18 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: ASM 29.04.44 Oblt. Hans-Heinrich Koenig: 25 3./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FT Nienburg: 6.000 m. 13.56 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 14 US Fighters Lost (10 P-51s, 3 P-38s, and 1 P-47) 4 P-47s Claimed Shot Down & Officially Credited -1 P-47 Actually Failed to Return (25%) 29.04.44 Maj. Heinz Bär: 201 Stab II./JG 1 P-47 £ 05 Ost S/HB N.W.Halberstadt 10.56 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 68 29.04.44 Oblt. Georg-Peter Eder: 42 6./JG 1 P-47 £ 05 Ost S/HB-1 S.E.Braunschweig: 300 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 86 29.04.44 Oblt. Rüdiger von Kirchmayr: 13 5./JG 1 P-47 £ 05 Ost S/GB-HB ostl. Braunschweig 11.05 Reference: JG 1 List f. 1207 29.04.44 Obgefr. Triebel: n.b. 6./JG 1 P-47 £ 05 Ost S/GB Raum Braunschweig - Reference: JG 1 List f. 1207 2 P-38s Claimed Shot Down 1 P-38 Officially Credited (+1 P-38 Pending Official Confirmation) 3 P-38s Actually Failed to Return 29.04.44 Fhj.Ofw. Neuberger: 2 Stab II./JG 11 P-38 £ 05 Ost S/FA nordl. Hannover: 8.700 m. 11.30 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 22 29.04.44 Maj. Günther Rall: 274 Stab II./JG 11 P-38 £ 05 Ost S/FU nordl. Hannover: 8.000 m. 11.15 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: ASM 7 P-51 Claimed Shot Down 6 P-51s Officially Credited (+1 Pending Official Confirmation) 10 P-51s Actually Fail to Return -Perhaps some P-51s were Identified as P-47s from Rear) 29.04.44 Oblt. Heinz Knoke: 25 5./JG 11 P-51 £ Fl.Pl. Braunschweig-Waggum: 40 m. 11.50 - 12.00 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 28 29.04.44 Uffz. Drühe: 2 * 5./JG 11 P-51 £ - - Reference: JG 11 List f. 1207 29.04.44 Ltn. Lüchau: 17 * 6./JG 11 P-51 £ - - Reference: JG 11 List f. 1207 29.04.44 Ltn. Georg Füreder: 17 * 5./JG 11 P-51 £ - - Reference: JG 11 List f. 1207 29.04.44 Fw. Bubel: 1 4./JG 11 P-51 £ 05 Ost S/FS-FR Diepholz area: 6.000 m. - Reference: JG 11 List f. 1207 29.04.44 Oblt. Heinz Seidel: 4 3./JG 302 P-51 £ - - Reference: WR JG 301-302 29.04.44 Obfhr. Grill: 1 Stab II./JG 11 P-51 £ HA-HB/JA-JB: 5.000 m. [Hildesheim] 11.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 88 TOTAL Victory Claims 76 Official Victories (12 Victories Pending Official Verification) JaFüI. Jagdkorps/Lfl. Reich: 29.04.44 Ltn. Erwin Baumgarten: 3 5./JG 27 B-17 HSS £ N.E. Braunschweig: 6.500 m. 10.55 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Ofw. Rudolf Piffer: 26 2./JG 1 B-17 HSS £ 05 OstS/HC: 5.000 m. [N. Oschersleben] 10.58 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Uffz. Fritz Rathofer: 3 3./JG 1 B-17 HSS £ HB-HC: 7.000 m. [E. Schöppenstedt] 10.58 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Oblt. Karl-Heinz Seeler: 4 5./JG 302 B-17 HSS £ Helmstedt: 7.000 m. 11.04 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Ofw. Dahlhöfer: 1 2./JG 11 B-24 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FU Raum Celle: 7.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Fw. Grube: 1 12./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ Helmstedt: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Iffland: 11 10./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ HC-4: 7.500 m. [Barneburg] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Uffz. Max Reichenberger: 3 5./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ 15 Ost S / GC-4: 8.400 m. [Oebisfelde] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Fw. Hans Schäfer: 13 10./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ GC-14: no height [E. Oebisfelde] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Uffz. Helmut Keune: 1 Sturmst. 1 B-17 HSS £ FB-FC: 7.000 m. [Warenholz-Klötze] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Uffz. Oskar Bösch: 1 Sturmst. 1 B-17 HSS £ FB-FC: 7.000 m. [area N.E. Gifhorn] 11.07 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Fw. Wolfgang Kosse: 22 Sturmst. 1 B-17 HSS £ - 11.10 Reference: JG 3 List f. 356 29.04.44 Fw. Wolfgang Kosse: 23 Sturmst. 1 B-17 HSS £ - 11.15 Reference: JG 3 List f. 356 29.04.44 Uffz. Helmut Wichmann: 1 12./JG 3 B-24 HSS £ FB Gardelegen: 5.000 m. 13.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Hptm. Wilhelm Moritz: 35 Stab IV./JG 3 B-24 HSS £ FC-EC: 5.000 m. [area Salzwedel-Klötz] 13.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Rachner: 7 12./JG 3 B-24 HSS £ FB: 5.000 m. [area N.E. Gifhorn] 13.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Uffz. Oskar Fischer: 2 12./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ FB Gardelegen: 5.000 m. 13.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Obfhr. Erhard Nolting: 5 Stab IV./JG 3 B-24 HSS £ FC-EC: 5.000 m. [area Salzwedel-Klötz] 13.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Schrangl: 24 Stab I./JG 11 B-17 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FT-FS: 6.000 m. [S.W. Verden] 13.25 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Gefr. Schwesinger: 7 2./JG 11 B-17 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FT: 5.800 m. [Nienburg] 13.25 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Oblt. Hans-Heinrich Koenig: 24 3./JG 11 B-24 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FS-FT Raum Nienburg: 5.000 m. 13.25 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Ofw. Jantzen: 1 2./JG 11 B-24 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FT: 5.800 m. [area Nienburg] 13.25 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. - 29.04.44 Ofw. Gahr: 1 Stab/JG 11 B-17 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FT-FS S.W.Verden: 7.000 m. 13.26 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Uffz. Pfeffer: 3 Stab/JG 11 B-24 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FT-FS S.W.Verden: 6.000 m. 13.26 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Uffz. Walter Dobrath: 1 1./JG 1 B-24 HSS £ 05 Ost S/ER Raum Vechta: 5.500 m. 13.35 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Uffz. Willi Unger: 8 11./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ - - Reference: JG 3 List f. 356 26 HSS (Bombers Crippled) (Some of these were later shot down inluding 5 ‘Final Destruction’ of Cripples by Fighters -30 Bombers returned home Damaged by Fighters) Type Serial # Group Sqdn. MACR # Comments B-17 42-31353 91 323 12391 B-17 42-3513 92 326 4260 B-17 42-97319 92 326 4261 B-17 42-31498 94 331 4467 B-17 42-102520 94 332 4468 B-17 42-37988 95 336 4470 B-17 42-31320 95 412 4469 B-17 42-3158 303 427 4476 B-17 42-31241 303 427 4463 ‘Spirit of Wanett’ Crash Landed in Denmark -Hit By Flak B-17 42-31556 306 368 4240 B-17 42-102448 384 545 4242 B-17 42-31773 385 548 4456 B-17 42-97559 385 549 4459 B-17 42-97078 385 550 4457 B-17 42-107045 385 550 4460 B-17 42-31133 385 551 4453 B-17 42-31174 385 551 4454 B-17 42-97226 385 551 4458 B-17 42-31393 388 560 4243 B-17 42-37980 388 562 4244 B-17 42-102526 390 571 4245 B-17 42-31226 401 613 4345 B-17 42-31116 401 614 4344 B-17 42-31521 401 615 4346 B-17 42-31144 447 708 4247 B-17 42-37866 447 708 4250 B-17 42-37868 447 708 4251 B-17 42-102479 447 708 4255 B-17 42-102421 447 709 4254 B-17 42-31217 447 710 4250 B-17 42-97135 447 710 4252 B-17 42-31124 447 711 4246 B-17 42-31161 447 711 4248 B-17 42-97501 447 711 4253 B-17 42-39981 452 728 4450 B-17 42-39920 452 729 4449 Type Serial # Group Sqdn. MACR # Comments B-24 42-100279 44 67 4464 B-24 41-29471 44 68 4472 B-24 41-28676 389 564 4494 B-24 41-28784 389 564 5473 B-24 42-110062 392 576 4445 Shot Down by German Fighters -Collided with ‘Doodle Bug’ B-24 42-100371 392 576 4487 ‘Doodle Bug’ -Crashed Due to Collsion with Bomber Shot Down by Fighters B-24 41-28759 392 577 4471 Shot Down by Fighter B-24 42-100100 392 578 4444 ‘Double Trouble’ -Shot Down by Fighters B-24 42-110105 392 578 4446 Shot Down by Fighters B-24 42-7510 392 579 4462 B-24 42-100360 446 706 4485 B-24 42-7655 448 712 4486 B-24 41-29523 448 713 4489 B-24 42-99988 448 714 4491 B-24 42-7683 448 714 4487 B-24 42-52435 448 715 4490 B-24 41-29479 448 715 4488 ‘Gypsy Queen’ Crash Landed in Denmark -Hit By Flak B-24 42-64354 449 4249 B-24 41-29582 450 4614 B-24 41-29376 450 4837 B-24 41-29269 450 4855 B-24 42-50322 453 734 4493 B-24 42-52301 453 732 4940 B-24 41-29265 454 4629 B-24H 41-28718 458 752 4451 Landed at Rinkaby, Sweden after being attacked at 11:04 in the vicinity of Celie by a FW 190. B-24 41-29399 466 784 4448 B-24 41-28754 466 787 4447 B-24 41-28749 467 790 4943 B-24 42-52506 467 788 4944 B-24 41-28730 467 4942 Type Serial # Group Sqdn. MACR # Comments P-51 43-6646 4 334 4541 P-51 42-106682 4 334 4671 P-51 43-6424 354 353 4422 P-51 43-6918 354 355 4420 P-51 43-12383 354 355 4434 P-51 43-6577 355 354 4547 P-51 42-106485 363 380 4435 P-51 43-6513 363 380 4431 P-51 43-6804 363 380 4432 P-51 43-6852 363 380 5130 Type Serial # Group Sqdn. MACR # Comments P-38 42-67447 364 384 4406 P-38 42-67438 364 384 4407 P-38 42-67417 364 384 4408 P-38 42-66985 51 4510 P-38 42-67007 51 4799 Type Serial # Group Sqdn. MACR # Comments P-47 42-22687 58 5808 Type Serial # Group Sqdn. MACR # Comments F-5 42-13124 5 THE KAMENITSA CREW, 576th Squadron Plane #42-100371 ‘Doodle Bug’ -Crashed Due to Collsion with Bomber Shot Down by Fighters THE OFENSTEIN CREW, 576th Squadron Plane #42-110062 -Shot Down by German Fighters –Collided with ‘Doodle Bug’ THE WYATT CREW, 579th Squadron Plane #42-7510 ‘El Lobo’ -A Straggler Shot Down by Flak and Fighters THE SHERE CREW, 577th Squadron Plane #41-28759 -Shot Down by Fighter THE BISHOP CREW, 578th Squadron Plane #42-110105 -Shot Down by Fighters THE ROGERS CREW, 578th Squadron Plane #42-100100 ‘Double Trouble’ –Shot Down by Fighters THE REED CREW, 577th Squadron Plane #42-7546 ‘Alfred II, -Crippled By Fighters and Abandoned over England –No MACR –Considered Cat E Damage? THE FRYMAN CREW, 579th Squadron Plane #41-29427, Ready Willing and Able –Exploded before Landing due to Fighter? Damage–No MACR –Considered Cat E Damage? THE COPP CREW, 577th Squadron Plane #42-52642 ‘Short Round’ -Damaged by Fighters THE SLIPP CREW, 577th Squadron Plane #42-7495 ‘Axis Grinder’ -Damaged by Fighters THE BRUNN CREW, 579th Squadron Plane #41-29448 ‘Carol Ann’ -Sligthly Damaged by Fighters THE GANN CREW, 579th Squadron Plane #42-100261 ‘Sweet Chariot’ Slightly Damaged by Friendly Test Cartridge –Aborted Mission THE BELL CREW, 579TH Squadron Plane #42-7472 ‘Bull Bat’ -Minor Damage THE WITTEL CREW, 576th Squadron Plane #41-29131 ‘Spirit of '46 Flying Patch’ -Slight Damage From Fighters? THE JONES CREW, 576th Squadron Plane #42-110097 -Damaged by Fighters THE PRELL CREW, 576th Squadron Plane #41-29433 -Undamaged THE SABOURIN CREW, 578th Squadron Plane #42-110028 -Undamaged? THE BRIDSON CREW, 578th Squadron Plane #852 and #42-52548 ‘Jaw-Ja Boy’ -Undamaged? Of interest, I think I may have gained some ‘insight’ (for myself at least) into Category E Damage! I think I have Identified the 2 Liberators which ‘returned’ with Category E as the B-24s which were not furnished with MACR reports –one Lib was abandoned in air to crash in England and the other Exploded in air above England! I had always assumed that Cat E referred to aircraft which had CRASH-LANDED and were too damaged to salvage. It seems that may be relegated to the realm of Category D, thus boosting the Claim Veracity of Luftwaffe Fighter Pilots even further, because in my view if a plane is shot up by a fighter and crash lands back at base -never to fly again- it has in fact been shot down (though there would be no way for the claimant to verify or indeed make a claim in the first place)! Mission 327 and The 392nd BG (B-24) http://www.b24.net/stories/annette.htm |
Re: Most One Sided Luftwaffe Victory over the 8th Air Force
Roger Freeman in his book, Mighty Eighth War Diary, states that Category E covers crashes in the UK or friendly territory as well as aircraft that managed to return but were considered to be beyond economical repair. The category of Missing in Action include aircraft which were downed over enemy territory or at sea. Thus, any 8th AF aircraft which was shot down by German intruders would be included in Category E as well as those two B-24s mentioned above.
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Re: Most One Sided Luftwaffe Victory over the 8th Air Force
Rob - according to the The Mighty Eighth Combat Chronology you have the 1st and 3rd BD losses transposed.
Their records and Macrs show the 1BD with 1CW,41CW, 40 CW and 94CW lost a total of 10 (8 to flak), flying in middle of bomber stream. They show two B-17s downed by GF, one at Hannover (303BG) and one over Berlin (384BG). My fathers group, the 355th FG had the duty of escorting the 1st BD that day and only had two small engagements during the escort in and return to point of relief by 56th FG near Dummer Lake. They observed one B-17 going down to fighters and shot down one of the fighters making the attack between Hannover and Brunswick. |
Re: Most One Sided Luftwaffe Victory over the 8th Air Force
Mission 327: 29 April 1944: Target -Friedrichstrasse Railroad Station Berlin
Assigned Take Off Combat Sorties Bomb Targets Bombers 751 679 669 618 Fighters 814 TOTAL 1493 Duration of Raid over Berlin: Less than 38 Minutes 11:12 Alarm Sounds with arrival of 452nd BG 11:50 All Clear following departure of 379th BG 618 Bombers Drop 1271 Tons of Bombs: 2.057 Tons per Plane (4,113 Lbs. of Bombs per Plane) Bombing in 8/10ths cover achieving “Fair Results” 8th AF Estimates put Luftwaffe Defense of the Capital at 350 Fighters with Opposition charachterized as “Fierce.” 3rd Division (B-17) -Leading Division 45th Combat Wing (96BG/452BG/388BG) 4A Combat Wing (385BG/447BG) 13th Combat Wing (390BG /95BG) 4B Combat Wing (100BG/4BG) 236 Assigned -218 Combat Sorties -196 Targets Bomb (158 Berlin/24 Magdeburg/10 Brandenburg/4 Opportunity Targets) 28 B-17s are lost & 161 damaged 4 KIA 20 WIA & 260 MIA 1st Division (B-17) 1st Combat Wing (91BG/381BG/398BG) 40th Combat Wing (305BG/92BG/306BG) 41st Combat Wing (303BG/379BG/384BG) 94th Combat Wing (401BG/457BG/351BG) 263 Assigned -228 Combat Sorties -210 B-17s Bomb Berlin 10 B-17s are lost & 150 damaged 1 KIA 7 WIA & 100 MIA. 94th BG Participated –Division/Combat Wing Unknown 2nd Division (B-24) Ran into Scattered Groups of 1st Division over Target Area 14th Combat Wing (44BG/392BG) 2nd Combat Wing (389BG/453BG/445BG) 96th Combat Wing (458BG/467BG /466BG/467BG) 20th Combat Wing (93BG/446BG/448BG) 252 Assigned -233 Combat Sorties -212 B-17s Bomb Berlin 25 B-24s are lost, 2 damaged beyond repair & 121 damaged 13 KIA 11 WIA & 246 MIA Fighter Escort 117 P-38s, 463 Eighth & Ninth Air Force P-47s & 234 Eighth & Ninth Air Force P-51s 3 P-38s & 10 P-51s are lost; 1 P-47 is damaged beyond repair 7 P-38s, 16 P-47s & 7 P-51s are damaged 1 WIA & 12 MIA Division Assigned Sortie Bomb Target 3rd Division (B-17) 236 218 196 (158 Berlin/24 Magdeburg/10 Brandenburg/4 Opportunity Targets) 1st Division (B-17) 263 228 210 B-17s 499 446 406 2nd Division (B-24) 252 233 212 -Trailing Division TOTAL 751 679 618 Mission 327 Casualties Bomber Casualties 4 KIA 20 WIA 260 MIA (3rd Division) -Leading Division 1 KIA 7 WIA 100 MIA (1st Division) 13 KIA 11 WIA 246 MIA (2nd Division) -Trailing Division 18 KIA 38 WIA 606 MIA Fighter Casualties 1 WIA 12 MIA Total Casualties 18 KIA 39 WIA 618 MIA Mission 327 Losses Lost Beyond Repair Damaged 28 B-17s 161 B-17s (3rd Division) -Leading Division 10 B-17s 1 B-17 150 B-17s (1st Division) 38 B-17s 1 B-17 311 B-17s 25 B-24s 2 B-24s 121 B-24s (2nd Division) -Trailing Division 63 Bombers 2 B-24s 432 Bombers (P-47s & P-51s -8th/9th Air Forces) Combat Sorties Bombers Lost Beyond Repair Damaged Lost /Damaged 3rd Division 28 B-17s 161 B-17s 189 B-17s 1st Division 10 B-17s 1 B-17 150 B-17s 161 B-17s 446 B-17s 38 B-17s 1 B-17 311 B-17s 350 B-17s 233 B-24s 25 B-24s 2 B-24s 121 B-24s 148 B-24s 679 Bombers 63 Bombers 3 Bombers 432 Bombers 498 Bombers 63 Bombers Fail to Return -Apparently 47 Bombers were lost to Lufwaffe fighters -At least 9 Bombers were lost to Flak -7 Bombers lost to ??? 432 Bombers Damaged (325 to Flak -Apparently 107 to Fighters/Fighters & Flak) 3 Category E Damage (Bombers Lost BEFORE Landing) ? Category D Damage ? Category C Damage ? Category B Damage ? Category A Damage Fighters Lost Beyond Repair Damaged Lost /Damaged 463 P-47s 1 P-47 16 P-47s 17 P-47s 234 P-51s 10 P-51s 7 P-51s 17 P-51s 117 P-38s 3 P-38s 7 P-38s 10 P-38s 814 Fighters 13 Lost 1 Beyond Repair 30 Damaged 44 Lost /Damaged 31 Fighters Damaged 1 Category E Damage P-47 ? Category D Damage ? Category C Damage ? Category B Damage ? Category A Damage TOTAL Lost Beyond Repair Damaged Lost /Damaged 679 Bombers 63 Bombers 3 Bombers 432 Bombers 498 Bombers 814 Fighters 13 Fighters 1 P-47 30 Fighters 44 Fighters 1493 Sorties 76 Lost 4 Beyond Repair 462 Damaged 542 Lost /Damaged USAAF Combat Claims TOTAL Fighters Bombers Shot Down 95 22 73 Probable 33 Damaged 48 21-28 Luftwaffe Fighters are Lost 1) Bf 109G-1 (Wrk. No.?) Heinz Knoke (31) There is the interesting story from Knoke’s book “I Flew For the Führer” that on 29 April, Knoke was shot down by a ‘P-47’ (he officially claimed a P-51) but as his tormentor overshot, Knoke pulled his flaming mount towards the enemy and shot him down in turn! The pilots parachuted and when Knoke was awaken from unconsiousness by the American, he told his ‘POW’ that he was Knoke’s 26th victim (Sic 25th). The American, since identified as Capt. James Cannon (354FG/353FS P-51) allegedly countered that Knocke was his 17th. It has been suggested that actually Cannon mentioned that he had shot down a Do 217 and that Knocke misunderstood this, or else the American was not about to be outdone by the pilot he had shot down. Further Breakdown Secondary/Diversionary Missions Mission 328: 4 of 4 B-17s drop 1.06 million leaflets on 21 towns in Northern France and The Netherlands without loss. 14 B-24s are dispatched on CARPETBAGGER missions without loss. TACTICAL OPERATIONS (9th Air Force): 217 B-26s dispatched to bomb marshalling yards in France abort the mission because of heavy cloud cover over the target area. I counted 83 Luftwaffe Victory claims, 5 Endgültige Vernichtung (Final Destruction of Cripples), and 26 Herausabschüß Claims (HSS/Bomber Separated From Formation -i.e. Crippled) for a total of 114 Luftwaffe Claims from my 25 Dec 04 version of Tony Woods Claims List including (201 and 202 from Heinz Bär and -surprise, surprise- No. 274 from my old acquaintance Günther Rall who had just returned from the Ostfront (The controversial Gottfried Dulias & I had breakfast with him the morning after a NASM symposium in 2002). A careful evaluation indicates the Luftwaffe Claimed a total of 88 Aircraft Definitely Shot Down -a caution to historians to distinguish between Abschüsse (Outright Victory Claims), Endgültige Vernichtung (Final Destruction of Cripples), and HSS (Bomber Separated From Formation) claims. Since it seems that as the Luftwaffe claimed 88 aircraft shot down and perhaps 61-67 USAAF Aircraft were shot down by aircraft, it seems they made a fairly reasonable estimate of their success (69.32%-78.41% can apparently be verified) in what must have been a hellacious fight. Moreover 12 of these 88 Claims were ASM ‘Pending Official Confirmation’ and thus cannot be counted as ‘Official Victories’ without subsequent documentation. Also very interseting is the fact that 2 of the 12 ASMs (Claims Pending Official Confirmation) belonged to none other than Günther Rall (his 274th) and Heinz Bär (his 202nd) - suggesting that the Luftwaffe’s Experten did not receive rubber stamp treatment in assesing their claims. 83 Abschüsse (Outright Victory Claims) (12 of which were Pending Official Confirmation) 5 Endgültige Vernichtung Claims (Final Destruction of HSS or Cripples) 88 Total Victory Claims + 26 HSS Claims (Bomber Separated From Formation -i.e. Crippled) 114 Total Claims Luftwaffe Victories Linked to Individual Pilots (2) Pilot Aircraft ClaimUnit Type Serial # Grp/Sqn Pilot Time Location Oblt. Heinz Knoke Bf 109G-1 (25 of 31) 5/JG11 P-51 43-6424 354/353 Capt. James Cannon (2.5) POW1150-1200 Fl.Pl. Braunschweig-Waggum: 40 m. Klein Gleidingen/Groß Gleidingen Maj. Walter Barte Bf-110G? (?? Of 23) Stab III/NJG3 B-17G 42-31241 303/427 2Lt Howard J. Bohle 13:28 ‘Spirit of Wanett’ -Flak/Bf 110 FD-47: 4.300 m. [Jävenitz S.W. Stendal]Crash Landed in Ødegaard Farm/ Lolland Island/Denmark 75 Bombers Claimed Shot Down 65 Bombers Officially Credited (+10 Pending Official Confirmation) ~54 of 63 Bombers Shot Down by Fighters -at least 9 Bombers lost to Flak (~55 of 75 Claimed Bombers Were Actually Shot Down ~72.00% Claim Accuracy) US FIGHTERS LOST 11 ‘Fighters’ Claimed Shot Down 10 ‘Fighters’ Officially Credited (+1 Pending Official Confirmation) Up to 7 ‘Fighters’ Shot Down by Fighters NOTE ‘Fighters’ in this instance indicates single engined fighters (P-51 or P-47) Maj. Hans-Joachim Jabs (50) also claimed 2 Spitfires in a perhaps unrelated action. (Up to 7 of 11 Claimed Single Engined Fighters Were Actually Shot Down by Fighters 63.64% Claim Accuracy) 2 P-38s Claimed Shot Down 1 P-38 Officially Credited (+1 P-38 Pending Official Confirmation) 3 P-38 Actually Failed to Return (3 of 2 Claimed P-38s Were Actually Shot Down 150% Claim Accuracy) 52 B-17s Claimed Shot Down 46 B-17 Officially Credited (+6 Pending Official Confirmation) 38 B-17s Actually Failed to Return -Some were lost to Flak 29.04.44 Fw. Franz Busch: 1 5./JG 3 B-17 £ GC-7: 7.500 m. [N.E. Helmstedt] 10.52 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 211 29.04.44 Uffz. Kappler: 1 3./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GB, E.S.E. Braunschweig: 7.000 m. 10.57 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 37 29.04.44 Ofw. Brodbeck: 3 6./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GB-HB: 7.500 m. [Braunschweig] 10.58 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 81 29.04.44 Oblt. Georg-Peter Eder: 41 6./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GB-7: 7.500 m. [E. Braunschweig] 10.58 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 82 29.04.44 Ofw. Rudolf Hübl: 18 2./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GC-7: 5.000 m. [N.E. Königslutter] 11.01 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. - 29.04.44 Maj. Gerhard Michalski 3./JGr. z.b.V B-17 £ Schandelah: 7.000 m. [E. Brauschweig] 11.03 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 1 29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Schrangl: 5 Stab I./JG 11 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/FU N. Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 24 29.04.44 Fw. Otto Florian: 9 4./JG 3 B-17 £ N. Helmstedt: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 273 29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Weik: 27 10./JG 3 B-17 £ HB-1 Helmstedt: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 16 29.04.44 Ltn. Karl Paashaus: 21 5./JG 53 B-17 £ 10 km. E. Braunschweig: 7.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 77 29.04.44 Fhj.Fw. Walter Becker: 1 6./JG 3 B-17 £ Raum Helmstedt: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 120 29.04.44 Hptm. Fritz Keller: 8 Stab II./JG 27 B-17 £ N.E. Helmstedt: 6.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 39 29.04.44 Ltn. Dieter Zink: 7 Stab/JG 3 B-17 £ Helmstedt: 7.800 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 185 29.04.44 Ltn. Oscar Zimmermann: 17 6./JG 3 B-17 £ N.W. Magdeburg: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 121 29.04.44 Fw. Walter Köhne: 28 3./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GB E.S.E. Braunschweig: 6.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 36 29.04.44 Uffz. Gerhard Vivroux: 5 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ GB-9: 7.000 m. [Marienthal E. Königslutter] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 23 29.04.44 Fw. Kurt Röhrich: 9 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ GC-5: 7.000 m. [Calvörde N. Haldensleben] 11.06 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 24 29.04.44 Ltn. Werner Gerth: 8 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ GC-2: 7.000 m. [Miesterhorst] 11.07 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 25 29.04.44 Uffz. Oskar Bösch: 2 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ 5 km. N.W. Helmstedt: 7.000 m. 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 27 29.04.44 Uffz. Willi Maximowitz: 4 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ Hehlingen: 7.000 m. 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 26 29.04.44 Ltn. Richard Franz: n.l. Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ N. Oebisfelde: 7.000 m. 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 28 29.04.44 Ltn. Siegfried Müller: 6 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ GC-7: 7.000 m. [Haldensleben] 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 30 29.04.44 Oblt. Günther Seeger: 47 4./JG 53 B-17 £ HB-2: 7.000 m. [S.W. Königslutter] 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 139 29.04.44 Oblt. Ottmar Zehart: 3 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ GC-12: 7.000 m. [Miesterhorst] 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 29 29.04.44 Ltn. Richard Franz: 4 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ - 11.10 Reference: JG 3 List f. 356 29.04.44 Oblt. Walter Bohatsch: e.V. 3./JG 3 B-17 e.V. £ HE-8: 3.000 m. [N. Zerbst] 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 275 29.04.44 Ofw. Ernst Haase: 7 1./JG 302 B-17 £ Braunschweig-Wolfsburg tiefflug 100 m. Reference: WR JG 301-302 29.04.44 Ofw. Artur Groß: 6 2./JG 302 B-17 £ - - Reference: WR JG 301-302 29.04.44 Oblt. Heinz Seidel: 5 3./JG 302 B-17 £ - - Reference: WR JG 301-302 29.04.44 Uffz. Peine: n.b. 2./JG 1 B-17 e.V. £ - - Reference: JG 1 List f. 1207 29.04.44 Fw. Otto Florian: 10 4./JG 3 B-17 £ HE-4: 7.500 m. [Wiesenburg] 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 275 29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Weik: 28 10./JG 3 B-17 £ HD-3 Burg: 7.000 m. 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 18 29.04.44 Fw. Hans-Ulrich Jüng: 4 10./JG 3 B-17 £ HD-3 Burg: 7.500 m. 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 17 29.04.44 Uffz. Walter Loos: 9 11./JG 3 B-17 £ HD-3 Burg: 7.500 m. 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 19 29.04.44 Fw. Werner Dienst: 1 2./JG 302 B-17 £ Wennbostel N. Hannover: 8.500 m. 11.30 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 1 29.04.44 Gefr. illegible Ind.St. Erla B-17 £ Locations illegible 12.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 4 29.04.44 Uffz. Bruno Ostrowirtzki: 6 2./JG 3 B-17 £ HE-9: 3.000 m. [S.E. Reuden] 12.15 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 95 29.04.44 Uffz. Schult [sic] L.Beo.St. B-17 £ Locations illegible 12.39 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 2 29.04.44 Oblt. Rüdiger von Kirchmayr: 14 5./JG 1 B-17 £ N.E. Fallersleben: 5.500 m. 13.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 85 29.04.44 Oblt. Rüdiger von Kirchmayr: 15 5./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GB: 5.500 m. [area Wolfsburg] 13.12 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 86 29.04.44 Oblt. Engau: 1 2./JG 11 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/FT: 5.800 m. [Nienburg] 13.27 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 99 29.04.44 Hptm. Walter Barte Stab III./NJG 3 B-17 £ FD-47: 4.300 m. [Jävenitz S.W. Stendal] 13.28 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 13 29.04.44 Oblt. Waldemar Radener: - 7./JG 26 B-17 £ 5 km. S.E. Roubaix: no height 13.35 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 93 29.04.44 Ofw. Gerhard Vogt: 26 5./JG 26 B-17 £ N.E. St. Omer: 1.000 m. 14.30 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 119 29.04.44 Fw. Otto Erhardt: 8 10./JG 3 B-17 £ - - Reference: JG 3 List f. 356 29.04.44 Fw. Peter Crump: e.V. 7./JG 26 B-17 e.V. £ 5 km. S. Reims 13.30 Reference: DLC JG 26 29.04.44 Ltn. Karlheinz Kapp: 10 4./JG 27 B-17 £ GB: 6.500 m. [N.E. Braunschweig] 10.55 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Fw. Rudolf Philipp: 6 5./JG 27 B-17 £ N.E. Braunschweig: 6.500 m. 11.00 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Fw. Johannes Hoyer: 3 6./JG 3 B-17 £ u. Magdeburg: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Uffz. Kurt Sossdorf: 1 5./JG 3 B-17 £ GC-4: 8.400 m. [Ratzlingen E. Wolfsburg] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Ltn. Werner Gerth: 7 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ FB-FC: 7.000 m. [area N.E. Gifhorn] 11.07 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Fw. Alexander: 1 4./JG 53 B-17 £ Bremen: 6.000 m. 13.40 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 23 B-24s Claimed Shot Down 19 B-24 Officially Credited (+4 Pending Official Confirmation) 25 B-24s Actually Failed to Return -Some were lost to Flak 29.04.44 Uffz. Walbeck: 2 3./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FT N.W.Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.03 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 32 29.04.44 Oblt. Hans-Heinrich Koenig: 22 3./JG 11 B-24 £ FU: N. Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.03 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 31 29.04.44 Uffz. Schumacher: 2 2./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU W. Celle: 6.000 m. 11.04 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 8 29.04.44 Uffz. Folger: 4 1./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU: 7.000 m. [N. Hannover] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 26 29.04.44 Uffz. Loewe: 1 1./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU: 7.000 m. [N. Hannover] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 21 29.04.44 Fhj.Ofw. Schunke: 1 Stab I./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S / FU Raum Eize: 7.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 20 29.04.44 Oblt. Hans-Heinrich Koenig: 23 3./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU nordl.Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 29 29.04.44 Ofw. Heinz Stöwer: 14 3./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU nordl. Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.07 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 30 29.04.44 Fw. Birkigt: 3 3./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FA nordl. Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 33 29.04.44 Fw. Janke: 2 3./JG 3 B-24 £ GC: 6.500 m. [area Haldensleben] 13.03 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 18 29.04.44 Fw. Hans-Georg Karl: 2 1./JG 1 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FS: 5.000 m. [area Sulingen] 13.13 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 27 29.04.44 Ltn. Windbichler: 3 2./JG 1 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU: 5.000 m. [S.E. Verden] 13.15 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 28 29.04.44 Gefr. Friedrich: 1 Stab/JG 11 B-24 £ ES-FS: 5.000 m. [Bassum-Sulingen] 13.25 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 7 29.04.44 Hptm. Gerhard Sommer: 19 4./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FS-FR Raum Diepholz: 6.000 m. 13.30 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 69 29.04.44 Fw. Wilhelm Fest: 10 5./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FS-6 to GS W. Minden: 6.500 m. 13.40 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 29 29.04.44 Uffz. Tempel: 1 4./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FS-FR: 6.000 m. [area Diepholz] 13.30-45 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 70 29.04.44 Uffz. Marx: 1 4./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FS-FR: 6.000 m. [area Diepholz] 13.30-45 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 71 29.04.44 Ofw. Hamacher: e.V. 2./JG 11 B-24 e.V. £ 05 Ost S/FR-3: 2.500 m. [W. Barnstorf] 13.25 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 38 29.04.44 Fw. Jansen: e.V. 5./JG 1 B-24 e.V. £ - - Reference: JG 1 List f. 1207 29.04.44 Maj. Heinz Bär: 202 Stab II./JG 1 B-24 £ GB: 6.500 m. [area N.E. Braunschweig] 10.59 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: ASM 29.04.44 Obfhr. Hodes: 1 2./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU Raum Celle: 7.000 m. 11.07 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: ASM 29.04.44 Fhj.Ofw. Eberhard Kröker: 7 6./JG 302 B-24 £ Leipkau: 7.000 m. 11.18 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: ASM 29.04.44 Oblt. Hans-Heinrich Koenig: 25 3./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FT Nienburg: 6.000 m. 13.56 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 14 US Fighters Lost (10 P-51s, 3 P-38s, and 1 P-47) 4 P-47s Claimed Shot Down & Officially Credited -1 P-47 Actually Failed to Return (25%) 29.04.44 Maj. Heinz Bär: 201 Stab II./JG 1 P-47 £ 05 Ost S/HB N.W.Halberstadt 10.56 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 68 29.04.44 Oblt. Georg-Peter Eder: 42 6./JG 1 P-47 £ 05 Ost S/HB-1 S.E.Braunschweig: 300 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 86 29.04.44 Oblt. Rüdiger von Kirchmayr: 13 5./JG 1 P-47 £ 05 Ost S/GB-HB ostl. Braunschweig 11.05 Reference: JG 1 List f. 1207 29.04.44 Obgefr. Triebel: n.b. 6./JG 1 P-47 £ 05 Ost S/GB Raum Braunschweig - Reference: JG 1 List f. 1207 2 P-38s Claimed Shot Down 1 P-38 Officially Credited (+1 P-38 Pending Official Confirmation) 3 P-38s Actually Failed to Return 29.04.44 Fhj.Ofw. Neuberger: 2 Stab II./JG 11 P-38 £ 05 Ost S/FA nordl. Hannover: 8.700 m. 11.30 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 22 29.04.44 Maj. Günther Rall: 274 Stab II./JG 11 P-38 £ 05 Ost S/FU nordl. Hannover: 8.000 m. 11.15 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: ASM 7 P-51 Claimed Shot Down 6 P-51s Officially Credited (+1 Pending Official Confirmation) 2-4 P-51s Shot Down by Fighters? 29.04.44 Oblt. Heinz Knoke: 25 5./JG 11 P-51 £ Fl.Pl. Braunschweig-Waggum: 40 m. 11.50 - 12.00 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 28 29.04.44 Uffz. Drühe: 2 * 5./JG 11 P-51 £ - - Reference: JG 11 List f. 1207 29.04.44 Ltn. Lüchau: 17 * 6./JG 11 P-51 £ - - Reference: JG 11 List f. 1207 29.04.44 Ltn. Georg Füreder: 17 * 5./JG 11 P-51 £ - - Reference: JG 11 List f. 1207 29.04.44 Fw. Bubel: 1 4./JG 11 P-51 £ 05 Ost S/FS-FR Diepholz area: 6.000 m. - Reference: JG 11 List f. 1207 29.04.44 Oblt. Heinz Seidel: 4 3./JG 302 P-51 £ - - Reference: WR JG 301-302 29.04.44 Obfhr. Grill: 1 Stab II./JG 11 P-51 £ HA-HB/JA-JB: 5.000 m. [Hildesheim] 11.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 88 TOTAL Victory Claims 76 Official Victories (12 Victories Pending Official Verification) JaFüI. Jagdkorps/Lfl. Reich: 29.04.44 Ltn. Erwin Baumgarten: 3 5./JG 27 B-17 HSS £ N.E. Braunschweig: 6.500 m. 10.55 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Ofw. Rudolf Piffer: 26 2./JG 1 B-17 HSS £ 05 OstS/HC: 5.000 m. [N. Oschersleben] 10.58 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Uffz. Fritz Rathofer: 3 3./JG 1 B-17 HSS £ HB-HC: 7.000 m. [E. Schöppenstedt] 10.58 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Oblt. Karl-Heinz Seeler: 4 5./JG 302 B-17 HSS £ Helmstedt: 7.000 m. 11.04 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Ofw. Dahlhöfer: 1 2./JG 11 B-24 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FU Raum Celle: 7.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Fw. Grube: 1 12./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ Helmstedt: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Iffland: 11 10./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ HC-4: 7.500 m. [Barneburg] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Uffz. Max Reichenberger: 3 5./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ 15 Ost S / GC-4: 8.400 m. [Oebisfelde] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Fw. Hans Schäfer: 13 10./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ GC-14: no height [E. Oebisfelde] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Uffz. Helmut Keune: 1 Sturmst. 1 B-17 HSS £ FB-FC: 7.000 m. [Warenholz-Klötze] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Uffz. Oskar Bösch: 1 Sturmst. 1 B-17 HSS £ FB-FC: 7.000 m. [area N.E. Gifhorn] 11.07 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Fw. Wolfgang Kosse: 22 Sturmst. 1 B-17 HSS £ - 11.10 Reference: JG 3 List f. 356 29.04.44 Fw. Wolfgang Kosse: 23 Sturmst. 1 B-17 HSS £ - 11.15 Reference: JG 3 List f. 356 29.04.44 Uffz. Helmut Wichmann: 1 12./JG 3 B-24 HSS £ FB Gardelegen: 5.000 m. 13.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Hptm. Wilhelm Moritz: 35 Stab IV./JG 3 B-24 HSS £ FC-EC: 5.000 m. [area Salzwedel-Klötz] 13.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Rachner: 7 12./JG 3 B-24 HSS £ FB: 5.000 m. [area N.E. Gifhorn] 13.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Uffz. Oskar Fischer: 2 12./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ FB Gardelegen: 5.000 m. 13.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Obfhr. Erhard Nolting: 5 Stab IV./JG 3 B-24 HSS £ FC-EC: 5.000 m. [area Salzwedel-Klötz] 13.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Schrangl: 24 Stab I./JG 11 B-17 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FT-FS: 6.000 m. [S.W. Verden] 13.25 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Gefr. Schwesinger: 7 2./JG 11 B-17 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FT: 5.800 m. [Nienburg] 13.25 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Oblt. Hans-Heinrich Koenig: 24 3./JG 11 B-24 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FS-FT Raum Nienburg: 5.000 m. 13.25 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Ofw. Jantzen: 1 2./JG 11 B-24 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FT: 5.800 m. [area Nienburg] 13.25 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. - 29.04.44 Ofw. Gahr: 1 Stab/JG 11 B-17 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FT-FS S.W.Verden: 7.000 m. 13.26 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Uffz. Pfeffer: 3 Stab/JG 11 B-24 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FT-FS S.W.Verden: 6.000 m. 13.26 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Uffz. Walter Dobrath: 1 1./JG 1 B-24 HSS £ 05 Ost S/ER Raum Vechta: 5.500 m. 13.35 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Uffz. Willi Unger: 8 11./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ - - Reference: JG 3 List f. 356 26 HSS (Bombers Crippled) (Some of these were later shot down inluding 5 ‘Final Destruction’ of Cripples by Fighters -107 Bombers returned home Damaged by Fighters) Type MACRSerial # Grp/Sq AC# Pilot Comments B-17 4236 42-31353 91/322 0353 1Lt James F Purdy Jr. KIA ‘Queenie’ (146th) Flak 1142 -Wing Broke Off 3KIA/2MIA B-17 4260 42-3513 92/326 Munson ? B-17 4261 42-97319 92/326 Langfeldt ? B-17 4467 42-31498 94?/331 Chias ? B-17 4468 42-102520 94?/ 332 McClurkin ? B-17G 4470 42-37988 95/ 336 Vilberg ? B-17G 4469 42-31320 95/412 Leaser ‘I’ll Be Around’ -Flak B-17 4471 42-3158 303/427 Fischer -Fighters B-17G 4463 42-31241 303/427 2Lt Howard J. Bohle ‘Spirit of Wanett’ -Flak/ Bf 110 Maj. Walter Barte (23) -Crash Landed in Ødegaard Farm/ Lolland Island/Denmark B-17 4240 42-31556 306/368 Lutz ? B-17 4242 42-102448 384/545 Bouvier ? B-17 4456 42-31773 385/548 Johnston -Fighters B-17 4459 42-97559 385/549 Barney ? B-17 4457 42-97078 385/550 Henry ? B-17 4460 42-107045 385/550 Sexton ? B-17 4453 42-31133 385/551 Garza ? B-17 4454 42-31174 385/551 Hart ? B-17 4458 42-97226 385/551 Huntington ? B-17 4243 42-31393 388/560 Walker ? 102nd Mission B-17 4244 42-37980 388/562 Covner ? ANOMALY -SURVIVES? B-17 4245 42-102526 390/571 Rayburn ? B-17G-5 4345 42-31226 401/613 2Lt D.E. Butterfoss Flak over Target -Crew MIA B-17G-1 4344 42-31116 401/614 2Lt J.H. Singleton ‘Cawn't Miss’ (60th) -Flak B-17G-20 4346 42-31521 401/615 Gould ‘Badland Bat’ -Flak? -Crew MIA? B-17 4247 42-31144 447/708 Lt. Hayden T. Hughes ‘Rowdy Rebel/Miss America’ 9 KIA / 1 POW B-17 4250 42-37866 447/708 Donahue ‘Bloated Body’ -Fighters -Crashed near Abbenrode/Germany. 2 KIA/8 POW B-17 4251 42-37868 447/708 Blom ‘Due Back’ -Fighters 4 KIA/6 POW B-17 4255 42-102479 447/708 Farrell ? B-17 4254 42-102421 447/709 Dowler ? B-17G-5-BO 4249 42-31217 447/710 2Lt Harold M. Paris ‘Rowdy Rebel/Solid Sender ’ -Fighters near Eggenstedt/Magdeburg /Germany -10 POW B-17 4252 42-97135 447/710 March ? B-17 4246 42-31124 447/711 Davidson -Fighters 1 KIA/9 POW B-17 4248 42-31161 447/711 Peper ? B-17 4253 42-97501 447/711 Johnson ? B-17 4450 42-39981 452/728 Haakenson ‘Rugged but Right’ Flak/Straggler/Fighter 10 POW B-17 4449 42-39920 452/729 Nelson ‘Karen B’ Flak -Feller in Ruulo/Holland - 1 KIA by Gestapo Type MACRSerial # Group Comments B-24 4464 42-100279 44/67 2Lt Keith Schuler ‘Tuffy’ Flak/Fighters/ Fw 190 e.V? Tilloy-Floriville/Germany 10 POW B-24 4472 41-29471 44/68 2Lt G H Sweigert Fighters 1101 Exploded over Germany 7 KIA/3 POW B-24 4494 41-28676 389/564 Higgins ? B-24 5473 41-28784 389/564 Locke ? B-24 4445 42-110062 392/576 2Lt Leo E. Ofenstein KIAShot Down by German Fighters 1100+ -Collided with ‘Doodle Bug’ -4KIA/6POW? B-24 4476 42-100371 392/576 2Lt William T. Kamenitsa ‘Doodle Bug’ Collided with Bomber Shot Down by Fighters 1100+ 3 WIA?/10 POW B-24 4462 41-28759 392/577 2Lt Fred C. ShereShot Down by Fighter 1330 3 KIA B-24 4444 42-100100 392/578 2Lt Gerald E. Rogers‘Double Trouble’ -Shot Down by Fighters 2 KIA B-24 4446 42-110105 392/578 2Lt Robert R. Bishop KIAShot Down by Fighters 10 KIA B-24H 4461 42-7510 392/579 2Lt Bert W. Wyatt KIA ‘El Lobo’ (38th) 1345 Flak/Fighters/ Bf 109? e.V.? SW Dinklage/Germany 10 KIA B-24 4485 42-100360 446/706 Jones ? B-24 4486 42-7655 448/712 Clark ? B-24 4489 41-29523 448/713 Turpin ? B-24J 4491 42-99988 448/714 Ponge ? B-24 4487 42-7683 448/714 Rogers ‘Sweet Sioux’ B-24 4490 42-52435 448/715 Cathey ? B-24H 4488 41-29479 448/715 2Lt Orland T. Howard ‘Gypsy Queen’ Crash Landed 1422 Povlsker/Denmark -Hit By Flak B-24 4493 42-50322 453/734 Tye ? B-24 4940 42-52301 453/732 Davison ? B-24H 4451 41-28718 458/752 Morris Landed at Rinkaby, Sweden after being attacked at 11:04 in the vicinity of Celie by a FW 190. Returned 12 Jul 45 B-24 4448 41-29399 466/784 Cotner Crashed Holland -Some Crew Evade B-24 4447 41-28754 466/787 1Lt Carl E. Hitchcock Crash-Landing Wilp-Achterhoek/Gelderland/Netherlands B-24 4943 41-28749 467/790 Prokop 7 KIA?/ 3 POW B-24 4944 42-52506 467/788 Moore ? B-24 4942 41-28730 467/ Gavin ? Type MACRSerial # Group Comments P-51B-5 4541 43-6646 4/334 Lt. Peter Kennedy POW ‘QP-L’ Flak -Crashed near Fuechtorf/Germany? P-51B-10 4671 42-106682 4/334 Lt. John L Barden POW ‘QP-B’ Flak -Crashed near Liebenrode P-51 4422 43-6424 354/353 Capt. James Cannon (2.5) POW ‘-K’ Bf 109G Heinz Knoke (31) Groß Gleidingen/Germany P-51B-5 4420 43-6918 354/355 2Lt Richard H.Hudson POW Mechanical Failure -Crashed near Vlothe P-51B-1 4434 43-12383 354/355 2Lt Paul W. Kallas KIA Fighters Crashed near Goedekkenrode/Holland? P-51B-5 4547 43-6577 355/354 Capt Thomas F. Neal Jr. KIA ‘WR-J’ Crashed diving on 2 Fw-190s through clouds near Rathenow/Germany? P-51B-10 4435 42-106485 363/380 2Lt Albert G. Johnon POW ‘Maggie's Drawers’ Mechanical Failure near Redon/France P-51B-5 4431 43-6513 363/380 2Lt Norman D. Hersberger Out of Fuel Redon/France POW? P-51B-5 4432 43-6804 363/380 1Lt Arthur W. Owen, Jr. Crashed near Lingen P-51B-5 5130 43-6852 363/380 F/O Daniel G. Diya Crashed near Lingen Type MACRSerial # Group Comments P-38 4406 42-67447 364/384 Smith ? P-38 4407 42-67438 364/384 Shaffer ? P-38J 4408 42-67417 364/384 Lt Shorndin D McCloud ‘5Y-D’ P-38 4510 42-66985 51/ ? P-38 4799 42-67007 51/ ? Type MACRSerial # Group Comments F-5 4224 42-13124 5/ ? Partial List of Aircraft Lost over England/Category E Damage Type Serial # Grp/Sq Pilot Comments B-17 447/710 Lt. E. Henningson ‘Rowdy Rebel’ Ditched in Channel -9 Rescued? B-24 42-7546492/577 2Lt Reed John W Reed IV KIA ‘Alfred II’ -Crippled By Fighters and Abandoned over England 1KIA B-24 41-29427492/579 2Lt. Bernard Fryman KIA ‘Ready Willing and Able’ -Exploded 1522 before Landing due to Fighter? Damage 10 KIA B-24H 41-29513 44/506 ‘Z-Bar’ -Flak -Fuel Leak -1505 Ditched 40 Miles East of Cromer -Crew Saved Very Partial List of Damaged Aircraft Type Serial # AC# Grp/Sq Pilot Comments B-17 7030 91/322 Major Damage B-17 7292 91/322 Major Damage B-17 1387 91/322 Major Damage B-17 116 91/323 Heavy Damage Type Serial # AC# Grp/Sq Pilot Comments B-24 41-29131 392/576 1Lt Edward F. Wittel ‘Spirit of '46 Flying Patch’ -Slight Damage From Fighters? B-24 42-110097 392/576 1Lt George E. Jones Damaged by Fighters B-24 42-7495 392/577 1Lt Floyd Slipp ‘Axis Grinder’ -Damaged by Fighters B-24 41-29448 392/579 2Lt Walter S. Brunn ‘Carol Ann’ -Sligthly Damaged by Fighters B-24 42-100261 392/579 2Lt Dewey L. Gann Jr.‘Sweet Chariot’ -Damaged by Friendly Test Cartridge -Aborted Mission B-24 42-7472 392/579 2Lt Charles L. Bell ‘Bull Bat’ -Minor Damage Very Partial List of Undamaged Aircraft Type Serial # AC# Grp/Sq Pilot Comments B-24 41-29433 392/576 2Lt Donald D. PrellUndamaged B-24 42-110028 392/578 2Lt Roland E. Sabourin Undamaged? B-24 42-52548 852 392/578 2Lt George L. Bridson ‘Jaw-Ja Boy’ -Undamaged? Type Serial # AC# Grp/Sq Pilot Comments B-17 304 91/323 Lt. Pryor B-17 151 91/323 Lt. Sheriff B-17 04091/323 Lt. Collier B-17 90991/323 Lt. Hackleman B-17 58091/323 Lt. Gorby B-17 63691/323 Lt. Riser B-17 07591/323 Lt. Gardner B-17 542 91/323 Capt. Ranzoni B-17 504 91/323 Lt. Bruce B-17 27691/323 Lt. Thomas B-17 06191/401 Capt. SamuelsonLt. Maziarz leading 323 Squadron Very Partial List of Aborts Type Serial # AC# Grp/Sq Pilot Comments B-17 1982 91/322 1/Lt. Chas. T. Bell Turned Back early when intercom system went out. B-17 1673 91/322 1/Lt Louis LaHood Turned Back just after crossing coast due to #1 & #2 Engine Trouble. Of interest, I think I may have gained some ‘insight’ (for myself at least) into Category E Damage! I think I have Identified the 2 Liberators which ‘returned’ with Category E as the B-24s which were not furnished with MACR reports -one Lib was Abandoned in air to crash in England and the other Exploded in air above England with all 10 crew KIA! I had always assumed that Cat E referred to aircraft which had CRASH-LANDED and were too damaged to salvage. It seems that may be relegated to the realm of Category D, thus boosting the Claim Veracity of Luftwaffe Fighter Pilots even further, because in my view if a plane is shot up by a fighter and crash lands back at base -never to fly again- it has in fact been shot down (though there would be no way for the claimant to verify or indeed make a claim in the first place)! A word of caution to researchers, in assessing MACR reports by date, as I discovered that the following 6 MACRs had nothing to do with Mission 327 to Berlin and in fact the P-47 reported was lost in the Pacific! Type MACRSerial # Grp/Sq AC# Pilot Comments B-24J 12391 42-64354 449 717 'Peerless Clipper' B-24 4614 41-29582 450 B-24 4837 41-29376 450 ‘Guardian Angel’ B-24 4855 4655 41-29269 450 Target TOULOUN/FRANCE B-24H-10 4629 41-29265 454/ Flak off Touloun -Interned in Barcelona/Spain Type MACRSerial # Grp/Sq AC# Pilot Comments P-47 5808 42-22687 58 717 5th AF Pacific Mission 327 and the 392nd BG (B-24) http://www.b24.net/stories/annette.htm |
Re: Most One Sided Luftwaffe Victory over the 8th Air Force
Two very small corrections:
Again according to "Making for Sweden..." the B-17G MACR 4463 "Spirit of Wanett" crashed into the sea north-west of Valse at Falster. Five of the crew baled out and four were taken prisoners, the co-pilot, 2/Lt Kerr escaped to Sweden. Four crew members were found dead, one is still MIA. Also, the B-24H MACR 4488, "Gipsy Queen", crashed after the whole crew bailed out from the burning a/c, six escaped, three were taken prisoner and one KIA. Greetings Hans |
Re: Most One Sided Luftwaffe Victory over the 8th Air Force
Mission 327: 29 April 1944: Target -Friedrichstrasse Railroad Station Berlin
Assigned Take Off Combat Sorties Bomb Targets Bombers 751 679 669 618 Fighters 814 TOTAL 1493 Duration of Raid over Berlin: 12 Combat Wings or ‘Boxes’ Bomb in Less than 38 Minutes 11:12 Local Time -Alarm Sounds with arrival of 452nd BG 11:50 Local Time -All Clear following departure of 379th BG 618 Bombers Drop 1271 Tons of Bombs: 2.057 Tons per Plane (4,113 Lbs. of Bombs per Plane) Bombing in 6-10/10ths Cloud Cover Results: Fair-Good 8th AF Estimates put Luftwaffe Defense of the Capital @ ~ 350 Fighters Characterization of Opposition: “Fierce” 3rd Division (B-17) -Leading Division 45th Combat Wing (96BG / 452BG / 388BG) 4A Combat Wing (385BG / 447BG) 13th Combat Wing (390BG / 95BG) 4B Combat Wing (100BG / 4BG) 236 Assigned -218 Combat Sorties -196 Targets Bomb (158 Berlin/24 Magdeburg/10 Brandenburg/4 Opportunity Targets) 28 B-17s Lost & 161 Damaged 4 KIA 20 WIA & 260 MIA 1st Division (B-17) 1st Combat Wing (91BG / 381BG / 398BG) 40th Combat Wing (305BG / 92BG / 306BG) 41st Combat Wing (303BG / 379BG / 384BG) 94th Combat Wing (401BG / 457BG / 351BG) 263 Assigned -228 Combat Sorties -210 B-17s Bomb Berlin 10 B-17s Lost & 150 Damaged 1 KIA 7 WIA & 100 MIA. 94th BG Participated –Division/Combat Wing Unknown 2nd Division (B-24) Ran into Scattered Groups of 1st Division over Target Area 14th Combat Wing (44BG / 392BG) 2nd Combat Wing (389BG / 453BG / 445BG) 96th Combat Wing (458BG / 467BG / 466BG / 467BG) 20th Combat Wing (93BG / 446BG / 448BG) 252 Assigned -233 Combat Sorties -212 B-17s Bomb Berlin 25 B-24s Lost, 2 Damaged Beyond Repair & 121 Damaged 13 KIA 11 WIA & 246 MIA Fighter Escort 117 P-38s, 463 Eighth & Ninth Air Force P-47s & 234 Eighth & Ninth Air Force P-51s 3 P-38s & 10 P-51s Lost 1 P-47 Damaged Beyond Repair 7 P-38s, 16 P-47s & 7 P-51s Damaged 1 WIA & 12 MIA Combat Sorties Division Assigned Sortie Bomb Target 3rd Division (B-17) 236 218 196 (158 Berlin/24 Magdeburg/10 Brandenburg/4 Opportunity Targets) 1st Division (B-17) 263 228 210 B-17s 499 446 406 2nd Division (B-24) 252 233 212 -Trailing Division TOTAL 751 679 618 Mission 327 Casualties Bomber Casualties 4 KIA 20 WIA 260 MIA (3rd Division) -Leading Division 1 KIA 7 WIA 100 MIA (1st Division) 13 KIA 11 WIA 246 MIA (2nd Division) -Trailing Division 18 KIA 38 WIA 606 MIA Fighter Casualties 1 WIA 12 MIA Total Casualties 18 KIA 39 WIA 618 MIA Mission 327 Losses Bombers Lost Beyond Repair Damaged Lost /Damaged 3rd Division 28 B-17s 161 B-17s 189 B-17s 1st Division 10 B-17s 1 B-17 150 B-17s 161 B-17s 446 B-17s 38 B-17s 1 B-17 311 B-17s 350 B-17s 233 B-24s 25 B-24s 2 B-24s 121 B-24s 148 B-24s 679 Bombers 63 Bombers 3 Bombers 432 Bombers 498 Bombers 63 Bombers Fail to Return -Apparently 47 Bombers were lost to Lufwaffe fighters -At least 10 Bombers were lost to Flak -6 Bombers lost to ??? 432 Bombers Damaged (325 to Flak -Apparently 107 to Fighters/Fighters & Flak) 3 Category E Damage (Bombers Lost BEFORE Landing) ? Category D Damage ? Category C Damage ? Category B Damage ? Category A Damage Fighters Lost Beyond Repair Damaged Lost /Damaged 463 P-47s 1 P-47 16 P-47s 17 P-47s 234 P-51s 10 P-51s 7 P-51s 17 P-51s 117 P-38s 3 P-38s 7 P-38s 10 P-38s 814 Fighters 13 Lost 1 Beyond Repair 30 Damaged 44 Lost /Damaged 31 Fighters Damaged 1 Category E Damage P-47 ? Category D Damage ? Category C Damage ? Category B Damage ? Category A Damage TOTAL Lost Beyond Repair Damaged Lost /Damaged 679 Bombers 63 Bombers 3 Bombers 432 Bombers 498 Bombers 814 Fighters 13 Fighters 1 P-47 30 Fighters 44 Fighters 1493 Sorties 76 Lost 4 Beyond Repair 462 Damaged 542 Lost /Damaged USAAF Combat Claims TOTAL Fighters Bombers Shot Down 95 22 73 Probable 33 Damaged 48 21-28 Luftwaffe Fighters are Lost 1) Bf 109G-1 (Wrk. No.?) Heinz Knoke (31) There is the interesting story from Knoke’s book “I Flew For the Führer” that on this day, Knoke was shot down by a ‘P-47’ (he officially claimed a P-51) but as his tormentor overshot, Knoke pulled his flaming mount towards the enemy and shot him down in turn! The pilots parachuted and when Knoke awoke from unconsiousness to find the American beside him, Knoke told his ‘POW’ that he was his 26th victim (Sic 25th). The American, since identified as Capt. James Cannon (354FG/353FS P-51) allegedly countered that Knocke was his 17th. It has been suggested that actually Cannon mentioned that he had shot down a Do 217 and that Knocke misunderstood this, or else the American was not about to be shown up by the pilot he had shot down. Secondary/Diversionary Missions Mission 328: 4 of 4 B-17s drop 1.06 million leaflets on 21 towns in Northern France and The Netherlands without loss. 14 B-24s are dispatched on CARPETBAGGER missions without loss. TACTICAL OPERATIONS (9th Air Force): 217 B-26s dispatched to bomb marshalling yards in France abort the mission because of heavy cloud cover over the target area. I counted 83 Luftwaffe Victory claims, 5 Endgültige Vernichtung (Final Destruction of Cripples), and 26 Herausabschüß Claims (HSS/Bomber Separated From Formation -i.e. Crippled) for a total of 88 Kills 114 Victory Claims by Luftwaffe from my 25 Dec 04 version of Tony Woods Claims List including (201 and 202 from Heinz Bär and -surprise, surprise- No. 274 from my old acquaintance Günther Rall who had just returned from the Ostfront (The controversial Gottfried Dulias & I had breakfast with him the morning after a NASM symposium in 2002). A careful evaluation indicates the Luftwaffe Claimed a total of 88 Aircraft Definitely Shot Down -a caution to historians to distinguish between Abschüsse (Outright Victory Claims), Endgültige Vernichtung (Final Destruction of Cripples), and HSS (Bomber Separated From Formation) claims. Since it seems that as the Luftwaffe claimed 88 aircraft shot down and perhaps 61-67 USAAF Aircraft were shot down by aircraft, it seems they made a fairly reasonable estimate of their success (69.32%-78.41% can apparently be verified) in what must have been a hellacious fight. Moreover 12 of these 88 Claims were ASM ‘Pending Official Confirmation’ and thus cannot be counted as ‘Official Victories’ without subsequent documentation. Also very interseting is the fact that 2 of the 12 ASMs (Claims Pending Official Confirmation) belonged to none other than Günther Rall (his 274th) and Heinz Bär (his 202nd) - suggesting that the Luftwaffe’s Experten did not receive rubber stamp treatment in assesing their claims. 83 Abschüsse (Outright Victory Claims) (12 of which were Pending Official Confirmation) 5 Endgültige Vernichtung Claims (Final Destruction of HSS or Cripples) 88 Total Victory Claims + 26 HSS Claims (Bomber Separated From Formation -i.e. Crippled) 114 Total Claims Luftwaffe Victories Linked to Individual Pilots Pilot Aircraft ClaimUnit Type Serial # Grp/Sqn Pilot Time Location Oblt. Heinz Knoke Bf 109G-1 (25 of 31) 5/JG11 P-51 43-6424 354/353 Capt. James Cannon (2.5) POW1150-1200 Fl.Pl. Braunschweig-Waggum: 40 m. Klein Gleidingen/Groß Gleidingen Maj. Walter Barte Bf-110G? (?? of 23) Stab III/NJG3 B-17G 42-31241 303/427 2Lt Howard J. Bohle 13:28 ‘Spirit of Wanett’ -Flak/Bf 110 FD-47: 4.300 m. [Jävenitz S.W. Stendal]Crash Landed in Ødegaard Farm/ Lolland Island/Denmark 75 Bombers Claimed Shot Down 65 Bombers Officially Credited (+10 Pending Official Confirmation) ~53 of 63 Bombers Shot Down by Fighters -at least 10 Bombers lost to Flak (~53 of 75 Claimed Bombers Were Actually Shot Down ~70.67% Claim Accuracy) US FIGHTERS LOST 11 ‘Fighters’ Claimed 10 ‘Fighters’ Officially Credited (+1 Pending Official Confirmation) Up to 7 ‘Fighters’ Shot Down by Luft Fighters NOTE ‘Fighters’ in this instance indicates single engined fighters (P-51 or P-47) Maj. Hans-Joachim Jabs (50) also claimed 2 Spitfires in a perhaps unrelated action. (Up to 7 of 11 Claimed Single Engined Fighters Were Actually Shot Down by Fighters 63.64% Claim Accuracy) 2 P-38s Claimed Shot Down 1 P-38 Officially Credited (+1 P-38 Pending Official Confirmation) 3 P-38 Actually Failed to Return (3 of 2 Claimed P-38s Were Actually Shot Down 150% Claim Accuracy) 52 B-17s Claimed Shot Down 46 B-17 Officially Credited (+6 Pending Official Confirmation) 38 B-17s Actually Failed to Return -Some were lost to Flak 29.04.44 Fw. Franz Busch: 1 5./JG 3 B-17 £ GC-7: 7.500 m. [N.E. Helmstedt] 10.52 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 211 29.04.44 Uffz. Kappler: 1 3./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GB, E.S.E. Braunschweig: 7.000 m. 10.57 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 37 29.04.44 Ofw. Brodbeck: 3 6./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GB-HB: 7.500 m. [Braunschweig] 10.58 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 81 29.04.44 Oblt. Georg-Peter Eder: 41 6./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GB-7: 7.500 m. [E. Braunschweig] 10.58 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 82 29.04.44 Ofw. Rudolf Hübl: 18 2./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GC-7: 5.000 m. [N.E. Königslutter] 11.01 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. – 29.04.44 Maj. Gerhard Michalski 3./JGr. z.b.V B-17 £ Schandelah: 7.000 m. [E. Brauschweig] 11.03 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 1 29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Schrangl: 5 Stab I./JG 11 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/FU N. Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 24 29.04.44 Fw. Otto Florian: 9 4./JG 3 B-17 £ N. Helmstedt: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 273 29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Weik: 27 10./JG 3 B-17 £ HB-1 Helmstedt: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 16 29.04.44 Ltn. Karl Paashaus: 21 5./JG 53 B-17 £ 10 km. E. Braunschweig: 7.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 77 29.04.44 Fhj.Fw. Walter Becker: 1 6./JG 3 B-17 £ Raum Helmstedt: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 120 29.04.44 Hptm. Fritz Keller: 8 Stab II./JG 27 B-17 £ N.E. Helmstedt: 6.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 39 29.04.44 Ltn. Dieter Zink: 7 Stab/JG 3 B-17 £ Helmstedt: 7.800 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 185 29.04.44 Ltn. Oscar Zimmermann: 17 6./JG 3 B-17 £ N.W. Magdeburg: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 121 29.04.44 Fw. Walter Köhne: 28 3./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GB E.S.E. Braunschweig: 6.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 36 29.04.44 Uffz. Gerhard Vivroux: 5 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ GB-9: 7.000 m. [Marienthal E. Königslutter] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 23 29.04.44 Fw. Kurt Röhrich: 9 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ GC-5: 7.000 m. [Calvörde N. Haldensleben] 11.06 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 24 29.04.44 Ltn. Werner Gerth: 8 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ GC-2: 7.000 m. [Miesterhorst] 11.07 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 25 29.04.44 Uffz. Oskar Bösch: 2 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ 5 km. N.W. Helmstedt: 7.000 m. 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 27 29.04.44 Uffz. Willi Maximowitz: 4 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ Hehlingen: 7.000 m. 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 26 29.04.44 Ltn. Richard Franz: n.l. Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ N. Oebisfelde: 7.000 m. 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 28 29.04.44 Ltn. Siegfried Müller: 6 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ GC-7: 7.000 m. [Haldensleben] 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 30 29.04.44 Oblt. Günther Seeger: 47 4./JG 53 B-17 £ HB-2: 7.000 m. [S.W. Königslutter] 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 139 29.04.44 Oblt. Ottmar Zehart: 3 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ GC-12: 7.000 m. [Miesterhorst] 11.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 29 29.04.44 Ltn. Richard Franz: 4 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ - 11.10 Reference: JG 3 List f. 356 29.04.44 Oblt. Walter Bohatsch: e.V. 3./JG 3 B-17 e.V. £ HE-8: 3.000 m. [N. Zerbst] 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 275 29.04.44 Ofw. Ernst Haase: 7 1./JG 302 B-17 £ Braunschweig-Wolfsburg tiefflug 100 m. Reference: WR JG 301-302 29.04.44 Ofw. Artur Groß: 6 2./JG 302 B-17 £ - - Reference: WR JG 301-302 29.04.44 Oblt. Heinz Seidel: 5 3./JG 302 B-17 £ - - Reference: WR JG 301-302 29.04.44 Uffz. Peine: n.b. 2./JG 1 B-17 e.V. £ - - Reference: JG 1 List f. 1207 29.04.44 Fw. Otto Florian: 10 4./JG 3 B-17 £ HE-4: 7.500 m. [Wiesenburg] 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 275 29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Weik: 28 10./JG 3 B-17 £ HD-3 Burg: 7.000 m. 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 18 29.04.44 Fw. Hans-Ulrich Jüng: 4 10./JG 3 B-17 £ HD-3 Burg: 7.500 m. 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 17 29.04.44 Uffz. Walter Loos: 9 11./JG 3 B-17 £ HD-3 Burg: 7.500 m. 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 19 29.04.44 Fw. Werner Dienst: 1 2./JG 302 B-17 £ Wennbostel N. Hannover: 8.500 m. 11.30 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 1 29.04.44 Gefr. illegible Ind.St. Erla B-17 £ Locations illegible 12.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 4 29.04.44 Uffz. Bruno Ostrowirtzki: 6 2./JG 3 B-17 £ HE-9: 3.000 m. [S.E. Reuden] 12.15 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 95 29.04.44 Uffz. Schult [sic] L.Beo.St. B-17 £ Locations illegible 12.39 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 2 29.04.44 Oblt. Rüdiger von Kirchmayr: 14 5./JG 1 B-17 £ N.E. Fallersleben: 5.500 m. 13.10 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 85 29.04.44 Oblt. Rüdiger von Kirchmayr: 15 5./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GB: 5.500 m. [area Wolfsburg] 13.12 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 86 29.04.44 Oblt. Engau: 1 2./JG 11 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/FT: 5.800 m. [Nienburg] 13.27 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 99 29.04.44 Hptm. Walter Barte Stab III./NJG 3 B-17 £ FD-47: 4.300 m. [Jävenitz S.W. Stendal] 13.28 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 13 29.04.44 Oblt. Waldemar Radener: - 7./JG 26 B-17 £ 5 km. S.E. Roubaix: no height 13.35 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 93 29.04.44 Ofw. Gerhard Vogt: 26 5./JG 26 B-17 £ N.E. St. Omer: 1.000 m. 14.30 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 119 29.04.44 Fw. Otto Erhardt: 8 10./JG 3 B-17 £ - - Reference: JG 3 List f. 356 29.04.44 Fw. Peter Crump: e.V. 7./JG 26 B-17 e.V. £ 5 km. S. Reims 13.30 Reference: DLC JG 26 29.04.44 Ltn. Karlheinz Kapp: 10 4./JG 27 B-17 £ GB: 6.500 m. [N.E. Braunschweig] 10.55 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Fw. Rudolf Philipp: 6 5./JG 27 B-17 £ N.E. Braunschweig: 6.500 m. 11.00 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Fw. Johannes Hoyer: 3 6./JG 3 B-17 £ u. Magdeburg: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Uffz. Kurt Sossdorf: 1 5./JG 3 B-17 £ GC-4: 8.400 m. [Ratzlingen E. Wolfsburg] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Ltn. Werner Gerth: 7 Sturmst. 1 B-17 £ FB-FC: 7.000 m. [area N.E. Gifhorn] 11.07 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Fw. Alexander: 1 4./JG 53 B-17 £ Bremen: 6.000 m. 13.40 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 23 B-24s Claimed Shot Down 19 B-24 Officially Credited (+4 Pending Official Confirmation) 25 B-24s Actually Failed to Return -Some were lost to Flak 29.04.44 Uffz. Walbeck: 2 3./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FT N.W.Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.03 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 32 29.04.44 Oblt. Hans-Heinrich Koenig: 22 3./JG 11 B-24 £ FU: N. Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.03 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 31 29.04.44 Uffz. Schumacher: 2 2./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU W. Celle: 6.000 m. 11.04 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 8 29.04.44 Uffz. Folger: 4 1./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU: 7.000 m. [N. Hannover] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 26 29.04.44 Uffz. Loewe: 1 1./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU: 7.000 m. [N. Hannover] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 21 29.04.44 Fhj.Ofw. Schunke: 1 Stab I./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S / FU Raum Eize: 7.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 20 29.04.44 Oblt. Hans-Heinrich Koenig: 23 3./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU nordl.Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 29 29.04.44 Ofw. Heinz Stöwer: 14 3./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU nordl. Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.07 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 30 29.04.44 Fw. Birkigt: 3 3./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FA nordl. Hannover: 7.000 m. 11.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 33 29.04.44 Fw. Janke: 2 3./JG 3 B-24 £ GC: 6.500 m. [area Haldensleben] 13.03 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 18 29.04.44 Fw. Hans-Georg Karl: 2 1./JG 1 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FS: 5.000 m. [area Sulingen] 13.13 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 27 29.04.44 Ltn. Windbichler: 3 2./JG 1 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU: 5.000 m. [S.E. Verden] 13.15 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 28 29.04.44 Gefr. Friedrich: 1 Stab/JG 11 B-24 £ ES-FS: 5.000 m. [Bassum-Sulingen] 13.25 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 7 29.04.44 Hptm. Gerhard Sommer: 19 4./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FS-FR Raum Diepholz: 6.000 m. 13.30 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 69 29.04.44 Fw. Wilhelm Fest: 10 5./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FS-6 to GS W. Minden: 6.500 m. 13.40 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 29 29.04.44 Uffz. Tempel: 1 4./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FS-FR: 6.000 m. [area Diepholz] 13.30-45 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 70 29.04.44 Uffz. Marx: 1 4./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FS-FR: 6.000 m. [area Diepholz] 13.30-45 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 71 29.04.44 Ofw. Hamacher: e.V. 2./JG 11 B-24 e.V. £ 05 Ost S/FR-3: 2.500 m. [W. Barnstorf] 13.25 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 38 29.04.44 Fw. Jansen: e.V. 5./JG 1 B-24 e.V. £ - - Reference: JG 1 List f. 1207 29.04.44 Maj. Heinz Bär: 202 Stab II./JG 1 B-24 £ GB: 6.500 m. [area N.E. Braunschweig] 10.59 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: ASM 29.04.44 Obfhr. Hodes: 1 2./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FU Raum Celle: 7.000 m. 11.07 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: ASM 29.04.44 Fhj.Ofw. Eberhard Kröker: 7 6./JG 302 B-24 £ Leipkau: 7.000 m. 11.18 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: ASM 29.04.44 Oblt. Hans-Heinrich Koenig: 25 3./JG 11 B-24 £ 05 Ost S/FT Nienburg: 6.000 m. 13.56 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 14 US Fighters Lost (10 P-51s, 3 P-38s, and 1 P-47) 4 P-47s Claimed Shot Down & Officially Credited -1 P-47 Actually Failed to Return (25%) 29.04.44 Maj. Heinz Bär: 201 Stab II./JG 1 P-47 £ 05 Ost S/HB N.W.Halberstadt 10.56 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 68 29.04.44 Oblt. Georg-Peter Eder: 42 6./JG 1 P-47 £ 05 Ost S/HB-1 S.E.Braunschweig: 300 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 86 29.04.44 Oblt. Rüdiger von Kirchmayr: 13 5./JG 1 P-47 £ 05 Ost S/GB-HB ostl. Braunschweig 11.05 Reference: JG 1 List f. 1207 29.04.44 Obgefr. Triebel: n.b. 6./JG 1 P-47 £ 05 Ost S/GB Raum Braunschweig - Reference: JG 1 List f. 1207 2 P-38s Claimed Shot Down 1 P-38 Officially Credited (+1 P-38 Pending Official Confirmation) 3 P-38s Actually Failed to Return 29.04.44 Fhj.Ofw. Neuberger: 2 Stab II./JG 11 P-38 £ 05 Ost S/FA nordl. Hannover: 8.700 m. 11.30 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 22 29.04.44 Maj. Günther Rall: 274 Stab II./JG 11 P-38 £ 05 Ost S/FU nordl. Hannover: 8.000 m. 11.15 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: ASM 7 P-51 Claimed Shot Down 6 P-51s Officially Credited (+1 Pending Official Confirmation) 2-4 P-51s Shot Down by Fighters? 29.04.44 Oblt. Heinz Knoke: 25 5./JG 11 P-51 £ Fl.Pl. Braunschweig-Waggum: 40 m. 11.50 - 12.00 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. 28 29.04.44 Uffz. Drühe: 2 * 5./JG 11 P-51 £ - - Reference: JG 11 List f. 1207 29.04.44 Ltn. Lüchau: 17 * 6./JG 11 P-51 £ - - Reference: JG 11 List f. 1207 29.04.44 Ltn. Georg Füreder: 17 * 5./JG 11 P-51 £ - - Reference: JG 11 List f. 1207 29.04.44 Fw. Bubel: 1 4./JG 11 P-51 £ 05 Ost S/FS-FR Diepholz area: 6.000 m. - Reference: JG 11 List f. 1207 29.04.44 Oblt. Heinz Seidel: 4 3./JG 302 P-51 £ - - Reference: WR JG 301-302 29.04.44 Obfhr. Grill: 1 Stab II./JG 11 P-51 £ HA-HB/JA-JB: 5.000 m. [Hildesheim] 11.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 88 TOTAL Victory Claims 76 Official Victories (12 Victories Pending Official Verification) JaFüI. Jagdkorps/Lfl. Reich: 29.04.44 Ltn. Erwin Baumgarten: 3 5./JG 27 B-17 HSS £ N.E. Braunschweig: 6.500 m. 10.55 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Ofw. Rudolf Piffer: 26 2./JG 1 B-17 HSS £ 05 OstS/HC: 5.000 m. [N. Oschersleben] 10.58 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Uffz. Fritz Rathofer: 3 3./JG 1 B-17 HSS £ HB-HC: 7.000 m. [E. Schöppenstedt] 10.58 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Oblt. Karl-Heinz Seeler: 4 5./JG 302 B-17 HSS £ Helmstedt: 7.000 m. 11.04 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Ofw. Dahlhöfer: 1 2./JG 11 B-24 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FU Raum Celle: 7.000 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Fw. Grube: 1 12./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ Helmstedt: 7.500 m. 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Iffland: 11 10./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ HC-4: 7.500 m. [Barneburg] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Uffz. Max Reichenberger: 3 5./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ 15 Ost S / GC-4: 8.400 m. [Oebisfelde] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Fw. Hans Schäfer: 13 10./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ GC-14: no height [E. Oebisfelde] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Uffz. Helmut Keune: 1 Sturmst. 1 B-17 HSS £ FB-FC: 7.000 m. [Warenholz-Klötze] 11.05 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Uffz. Oskar Bösch: 1 Sturmst. 1 B-17 HSS £ FB-FC: 7.000 m. [area N.E. Gifhorn] 11.07 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Fw. Wolfgang Kosse: 22 Sturmst. 1 B-17 HSS £ - 11.10 Reference: JG 3 List f. 356 29.04.44 Fw. Wolfgang Kosse: 23 Sturmst. 1 B-17 HSS £ - 11.15 Reference: JG 3 List f. 356 29.04.44 Uffz. Helmut Wichmann: 1 12./JG 3 B-24 HSS £ FB Gardelegen: 5.000 m. 13.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Hptm. Wilhelm Moritz: 35 Stab IV./JG 3 B-24 HSS £ FC-EC: 5.000 m. [area Salzwedel-Klötz] 13.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Rachner: 7 12./JG 3 B-24 HSS £ FB: 5.000 m. [area N.E. Gifhorn] 13.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Uffz. Oskar Fischer: 2 12./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ FB Gardelegen: 5.000 m. 13.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Obfhr. Erhard Nolting: 5 Stab IV./JG 3 B-24 HSS £ FC-EC: 5.000 m. [area Salzwedel-Klötz] 13.20 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Ltn. Hans Schrangl: 24 Stab I./JG 11 B-17 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FT-FS: 6.000 m. [S.W. Verden] 13.25 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Gefr. Schwesinger: 7 2./JG 11 B-17 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FT: 5.800 m. [Nienburg] 13.25 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Oblt. Hans-Heinrich Koenig: 24 3./JG 11 B-24 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FS-FT Raum Nienburg: 5.000 m. 13.25 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Ofw. Jantzen: 1 2./JG 11 B-24 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FT: 5.800 m. [area Nienburg] 13.25 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. - 29.04.44 Ofw. Gahr: 1 Stab/JG 11 B-17 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FT-FS S.W.Verden: 7.000 m. 13.26 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Uffz. Pfeffer: 3 Stab/JG 11 B-24 HSS £ 05 Ost S/FT-FS S.W.Verden: 6.000 m. 13.26 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Uffz. Walter Dobrath: 1 1./JG 1 B-24 HSS £ 05 Ost S/ER Raum Vechta: 5.500 m. 13.35 Film C. 2027/I VNE: ASM 29.04.44 Uffz. Willi Unger: 8 11./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ - - Reference: JG 3 List f. 356 26 HSS (Bombers Crippled) (Some of these were later shot down inluding 5 ‘Final Destruction’ of Cripples by Fighters -107 Bombers returned home Damaged by Fighters) Type MACRSerial No. Grp/Sqd AC# AC Code Pilot Plane Name Comments B-17 4236 42-31353 91/322 0353 1Lt James F Purdy Jr. KIA Queenie (146th) AA 1142 Wing Broke Off 3KIA/2MIA B-17 4260 42-3513 92/326 513 Lt Russell M Munson ? B-17 4261 42-97319 92/326 319 Lt John B Langfeldt ? B-17 4467 42-31498 94/331 Chias ? B-17 4468 42-102520 94/332 McClurkin ? B-17G 4470 42-37988 95/336 Vilberg ? B-17G 4469 42-31320 95/412 LeaserIll Be Around AA -Crashed near Hamstede/Germany 10POW B-17F 4471 42-3158 303/427 158 CR-L 2Lt James H Fischer POW Max Ftrs over Target 8KIA/2POW Spare -Last 303 B-17F Lost B-17G 4463 42-31241 303/427 241 CR-S 2Lt Howard J Bohle Spirit of Wanette AA/Bf 110 Maj. Walter Barte (23) -Crash Landed in Sea NW of Valse at Falster/Lolland Island/Denmark 5KIA/4POW/1EVD B-17 4240 42-31556 306/368 Lutz ? B-17-G-50 4242 42-102448 384/545 JD*P Lt. Bouvier ? B-17 4456 42-31773 385/548 GX-M Johnston Bf-109? Crashed near Laatzen/Gleidingen, Germany. 2 KIA (1 Murdered)8 POW B-17 4459 42-97559 385/549 Barney Bf-109? B-17 4457 42-97078 385/550 Henry Bf-109? B-17 4460 42-107045 385/550 Sexton Bf-109? B-17 4453 42-31133 385/551 Garza Bf-109? B-17 4454 42-31174 385/551 Hart Bf-109? B-17 4458 42-97226 385/551 Huntington Bf-109? B-17 4243 42-31393 388/560 D E Walker (102nd Mission) AA Parsau/France B-17 4244 42-37980 388/562 J O Coyner Fighters B-17G 4245 42-102526 390/571 N Rayburn Severe Damage, one engine smoking, dove into clouds. Crashed at Geitsche/Germany All POW B-17G-5 4345 42-31226 401/613 2Lt D.E. Butterfoss AA over Target -Crew MIA B-17G-1 4344 42-31116 401/614 IW-O 2Lt J.H. Singleton Cawnt Miss (60)AA 5KIA/5POW B-17G-20 4346 42-31521 401/615 Gould Badland Bat AA? -Crew MIA? B-17 4247 42-31144 447/708 Lt Hayden T Hughes Rowdy Rebel Miss AmericaFtrs en route Destedt/Germany 9KIA/1POW B-17 4250 42-37866 447/708 Donahue Bloated Body Ftrs -Crashed near Abbenrode/Germany. 2 KIA/8 POW B-17 4251 42-37868 447/708 Blom Due Back Ftrs 4 KIA/6 POW B-17 4255 42-102479 447/708 Farrell ? B-17 4254 42-102421 447/709 Dowler ? B-17G-5-BO 4249 42-31217 447/710 IJ-G 2Lt Harold M Paris Rowdy Rebel Solid SenderFtrs near Eggenstedt/Magdeburg /Germany -10 POW B-17 4252 42-97135 447/710 March ? B-17 4246 42-31124 447/711 Davidson Ftrs 1 KIA/9 POW B-17G 4248 42-31161 447/711 Peper Spare Parts ? B-17 4253 42-97501 447/711 Johnson ? B-17 4450 42-39981 452/728 Haakenson Rugged but Right AA/Straggler/Ftr 10 POW B-17 4449 42-39920 452/729 Nelson Karen B AA -Feller in Ruulo/Holland - 1KIA by Gestapo Type MACRSerial No. Grp/Sq AC# AC Code Pilot Plane Name Comments B-24 4464 42-100279 44/67 2Lt Keith Schuler Tuffy AA/Ftrs/ Fw 190 e.V? Tilloy-Floriville/Germany 10 POW B-24 4472 41-29471 44/68 2Lt G H Sweigert Ftrs 1101 Exploded over Germany 7 KIA/3 POW B-24 4494 41-28676 389/564 Higgins ? B-24 5473 41-28784 389/564 Locke ? B-24 4445 42-110062 392/576 2Lt Leo E. Ofenstein KIA Shot Down by German Ftrs 1100+ -Collided with Doodle Bug -4KIA/6POW? B-24 4476 42-100371 392/576 2Lt William T. Kamenitsa Doodle Bug Collided with Bomber Shot Down by Ftrs 1100+ 3 WIA?/10 POW B-24 4462 41-28759 392/577 2Lt Fred C. Shere Shot Down by Ftr 1330 3 KIA B-24 4444 42-100100 392/578 2Lt Gerald E. RogersDouble Trouble Shot Down by Ftrs 2 KIA B-24 4446 42-110105 392/578 2Lt Robert R. Bishop KIA Shot Down by Ftrs 10 KIA B-24H 4461 42-7510 392/579 2Lt Bert W. Wyatt KIA El Lobo (38th) 1345 AA/Ftrs/ Bf 109? e.V.? SW Dinklage/Germany 10 KIA B-24 4485 42-100360 446/706 Jones Luck n’ Stuff Mechanical-AA?/Bf-109s 3KIA/7POW B-24 4486 42-7655 448/712 Clark ? B-24 4489 41-29523 448/713 Turpin ? B-24J 4491 42-99988 448/714 Ponge ? B-24 4487 42-7683 448/714 Rogers Sweet Sioux ? B-24 4490 42-52435 448/715 Cathey ? B-24H 4488 41-29479 448/715 2Lt Orland T. Howard Gypsy Queen AA Crash Landed 1422 Povlsker/Denmark 1KIA/3POW/6EVD B-24 4493 42-50322 453/734 Tye ? B-24 4940 42-52301 453/732 Davison ? B-24H 4451 41-28718 458/752 Morris Landed Rinkaby/Sweden after being attacked 11:04 near Celie by FW 190. Returned 12 Jul 45 B-24 4448 41-29399 466/784 Cotner Crashed Holland -Some Crew Evade B-24 4447 41-28754 466/787 1Lt Carl E. Hitchcock Crash-Landing Wilp-Achterhoek/Gelderland/Netherlands B-24H-15-FO 4944 42-52506 467/788 1Lt Bill F Moore EXE AA after drop -bailed out Holland Maj R Salzarulo 788CO & 5POW/5EVD -Pilot executed Gestapo B-24H-10-DT 4943 41-28749 467/790 1Lt Frank P Prokop Ftrs Hannover 7 KIA/ 3 POW B-24H-10-DT 4942 41-28730 467/790 1Lt John P Gavin POW Blonde Bomber AA Berlin 4KIA/6POW Type MACRSerial No. Grp/Sq AC# AC Code Pilot Plane Name Comments P-51B-5 4541 43-6646 4/334 QP-L AA Lt. Peter Kennedy POW Crashed near Fuechtorf/Germany? P-51B-10 4671 42-106682 4/334 QP-B AA Lt. John L Barden POW Crashed near Liebenrode P-51 4422 43-6424 354/353 -K Capt. James Cannon (2.5) POW Bf 109G-1 Heinz Knoke (31) Groß Gleidingen/Germany P-51B-5 4420 43-6918 354/355 2Lt Richard H.Hudson POW Mechanical Failure -Crashed near Vlothe P-51B-1 4434 43-12383 354/355 2Lt Paul W. Kallas KIA Ftrs Crashed near Goedekkenrode/Holland? P-51B-5 4547 43-6577 355/354 WR-J Capt Thomas F. Neal Jr. KIA Crashed diving on 2 Fw-190s through clouds near Rathenow/Germany? P-51B-10 4435 42-106485 363/380 2Lt Albert G. Johnon POW Maggies Drawers Mechanical Failure near Redon/France P-51B-5 4431 43-6513 363/380 2Lt Norman D. Hersberger Out of Fuel Redon/France POW? P-51B-5 4432 43-6804 363/380 1Lt Arthur W. Owen, Jr. Crashed near Lingen P-51B-5 5130 43-6852 363/380 F/O Daniel G. Diya Crashed near Lingen Type MACRSerial No. Grp/Sq AC# AC Code Pilot Plane Name Comments P-38J 4406 42-67447 364/384 5Y- Lt Eugene L Smith POW ? P-38J 4407 42-67438 364/384 5Y-I Lt Kenneth M Shaffer POW ? P-38J 4408 42-67417 364/384 5Y-D Lt Shorndin D McCloud ? Type MACRSerial No. Grp/Sq AC# AC Code Pilot Plane Name Comments F-5 4224 42-13124 5/ ? Partial List of Aircraft Lost over England/Category E Damage (14 Total?) Type Serial No. Grp/Sq AC# AC Code Pilot Plane Name Comments B-17G 42-31519 447/709 IE-O Flemming Ditched in Channel SAME AS below? B-17 447/710 Lt. E. Henningson Rowdy Rebel Ditched in Channel -9 Rescued? B-17 42-31784 452/729 Suckow Section Eight AA?/Ftr? -Ditched in the North Sea. 10 RTD Type Serial No. Grp/Sq AC# AC Code Pilot Plane Name Comments B-24 389/564 Lt. Locke AA/Fighters Ditched in the English Channel5KIA/1WIA B-24H 41-29513 44/506 Hruby Z-Bar AA -Fuel Leak -1505 Ditched 40 Miles East of Cromer -Crew Saved B-24 42-7546492/577 2Lt Reed John W Reed IV KIA Alfred II Bf-109s -Abandoned Beckenville/England 1KIA B-24 41-29427492/579 2Lt. Bernard Fryman KIA Ready Willing and Able Exploded 1522 before Landing due to Fighter? Damage 10 KIA Very Partial List of Damaged Aircraft Type Serial # AC# Grp/ Sqdrn Pilot Plane Name Comments B-17 7030 91/322 Major Damage B-17 7292 91/322 Major Damage B-17 1387 91/322 Major Damage B-17 116 91/323 Heavy Damage B-17G 42-31405405 303/359 2Lt Ernest L. Roth Wallaroo MKIIAA Co-Pilot2Lt Homer E Raker KIA -Silver Star for adjusting engines before dying. B-17 42-31242 388/563 W J Brunk Patty Jo Severe Damage Type Serial # AC# Grp/Sq Pilot Comments B-24 41-29131 392/576 1Lt Edward F. Wittel Spirit of 46 Flying Patch Slight Damage by Ftrs? B-24 42-110097 392/576 1Lt George E. Jones Damaged by Ftrs B-24 42-7495 392/577 1Lt Floyd Slipp Axis Grinder Damaged by Ftrs B-24 41-29448 392/579 2Lt Walter S. Brunn Carol Ann Slight Damage by Ftrs B-24 42-100261 392/579 2Lt Dewey L. Gann Jr. Sweet Chariot Damaged by Friendly Test Cartridge -Aborted B-24 42-7472 392/579 2Lt Charles L. Bell Bull Bat Minor Damage Very Partial List of Aborts Type Serial # AC# Grp/Sq Pilot Comments B-17 1982 91/322 1Lt Chas. T. Bell Turned Back early when intercom system went out. B-17 1673 91/322 1Lt Louis LaHood Turned Back just after crossing coast due to #1 & #2 Engine Trouble. Very Partial List of Undamaged Aircraft Type Serial # AC# Grp/Sq Pilot Comments B-24 41-29433 392/576 2Lt Donald D. PrellUndamaged B-24 42-110028 392/578 2Lt Roland E. Sabourin Undamaged? B-24 42-52548 852 392/578 2Lt George L. Bridson ‘Jaw-Ja Boy’ -Undamaged? Type Serial # AC# Grp/Sq Pilot Comments B-17 304 91/323 Lt. Pryor B-17 151 91/323 Lt. Sheriff B-17 04091/323 Lt. Collier B-17 90991/323 Lt. Hackleman B-17 58091/323 Lt. Gorby B-17 63691/323 Lt. Riser B-17 07591/323 Lt. Gardner B-17 542 91/323 Capt. Ranzoni B-17 504 91/323 Lt. Bruce B-17 27691/323 Lt. Thomas B-17 06191/401 Capt. SamuelsonLt. Maziarz leading 323 Squadron Of interest, I think I may have gained some ‘insight’ (for myself at least) into Category E Damage! I think I have Identified the 2 Liberators which ‘returned’ with Category E as the B-24s which were not furnished with MACR reports -one Lib was Abandoned in air to crash in England and the other Exploded in air above England with all 10 crew KIA! I had always assumed that Cat E referred to aircraft which had CRASH-LANDED and were too damaged to salvage. It seems that may be relegated to the realm of Category D, thus boosting the Claim Veracity of Luftwaffe Fighter Pilots even further, because in my view if a plane is shot up by a fighter and crash lands back at base -never to fly again- it has in fact been shot down (though there would be no way for the claimant to verify or indeed make a claim in the first place)! A word of caution to researchers, in assessing MACR reports by date, as I discovered that the following 8 MACRs had nothing to do with Mission 327 to Berlin and in fact the P-47 reported was lost in the Pacific and the P-38s in the CBI! Type MACRSerial # Grp/Sq AC# Pilot Comments B-24J 12391 42-64354 449 717 'Peerless Clipper' B-24 4614 41-29582 450 B-24 4837 41-29376 450 ‘Guardian Angel’ B-24 4855 4655 41-29269 450 Target TOULON/FRANCE B-24H-10 4629 41-29265 454/ AA off Toulon -Interned in Barcelona/Spain Type MACRSerial # Grp/Sq AC# Pilot Comments P-47 5808 42-22687 58 717 5th AF Pacific Type MACRSerial # Grp/Sq AC# Pilot Comments P-38 4510 42-66985 51/ ? P-38 4799 42-67007 51/ Mission 327 and the 392nd BG (B-24) http://www.b24.net/stories/annette.htm |
Re: Most One Sided Luftwaffe Victory over the 8th Air Force
Rob:
It's occurred to me that we still haven't gotten the factors of why the LW did so well on this raid this late in the war; what the factors were that allowed them to give the 8thAF a bit of a bloody nose & STILL get away without high casualties; NickM |
Re: Most One Sided Luftwaffe Victory over the 8th Air Force
Nick - right up to the end of the war, the Luftwaffe was able to deal severe blows to the bombers when skillfully directed by the controllers to an area/gap in fighter coverage - and escape without being mauled if they only made, perhaps two passes.
The 29th April was particularly significant because the B-24 wings that were clobbered were very far off course and fighters were not able to provide cover at all! Other battles such as 7 July and 27 September and 26 November, they dealt heavy blows but the fighter coverage was close enough that the Germans were not able to escape.. I know I am a preacher talking to the converted about this point so forgive me if I seem pedantic about 'local superiority' and the lethal consequences when Sturmbocks were able to make passes with 30mm cannon. Bill Rob - I noted w/interest that Oblt Heinz Seidl 3/JG302 seemed to claim Neal (as referenced to the WR-J in the claim). I have a report that an Fw 190 and the P-51 WR-J both crashed very close together which would support the claim that Neal went in chasing one of the 190's near Rathenow. His wingman pulled up as they started through an undercast and barely escaped the same fate. Do you have access to the German claim documentation so I can better understand the circumstances? |
Re: Most One Sided Luftwaffe Victory over the 8th Air Force
NOTE THERE ARE UNCORRECTED ERRORS IN THE TABLES ABOVE THAT WILL AWAIT THE NEXT MAJOR REVISION!!!
Nick, I think the online resource I included goes a good way to explain what happened. First it was a deep penetration raid againt Nazism’s capital, so the Jagdwaffe was highly motivated and had a long time to organize and probe for weaknesses. Secondly the radars on the two lead Pathfinder B-17s were not functioning properly (one failed completely) and so GIVEN THE OVERCAST the bomber stream drifted well south of the assigned escort corridors. Drgondog, sorry, I'M THROUGH WITH ARCHIVAL RESEARCH, all my work is online these days –in fact I to most of that info from a post someone –perhaps you- made. Are you saying Seidly shot down Neal, or that he just dove into the ground? |
Re: Most One Sided Luftwaffe Victory over the 8th Air Force
Rob - what I believe is that 'Jeeter' Neal was chasing two Fw 190's in a dive, his wingman pulled out as they went into cloudbank (Fritts Statement in MACR) and when he finally recovered from the dive he (Fritts) was just off the deck and saw no a/c in sight before climbing back out - leading one to conclude that Neal was not shot down but crashed chasing the Fw 190..misjudging the altitude.
I don't think it unreasonable, however for Seidl to make the claim, just curious with regard to how he reported the claim? Regards, Bill |
Re: Most One Sided Luftwaffe Victory over the 8th Air Force
Quote:
Instead of re-posting the edited material as a new post, upload it as a word document instead. Each time you have a new version, you remove the old doc-file and upload the amended one. You could even keep up a revision note. Basic fact is that people tend to read the first post and than join the thread, skipping much of what is in between, this means your edits may be ignored alltogether. |
Re: Most One Sided Luftwaffe Victory over the 8th Air Force
Quote:
cheers Jan |
Re: Most One Sided Luftwaffe Victory over the 8th Air Force
Jan - the Macr 4547 has references "30 miles west of Berlin" and 30 miles sw of Berlin (Fritts Witness report). The 354 FS history mentions 'near Rathenow'.
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Re: Most One Sided Luftwaffe Victory over the 8th Air Force
I see, I am aware of this one. I have another report indicating where was his wreck found, a place about 100 miles west of Rathenow. Let me contact you off-board.
Best regards |
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