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Kittyhawk Found in Sahara
Hi guys
In case any of you have not seen these they appear to show a Kittyhawk fighter of 260 Sqn, RAF that has recently been found. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFe8CsOdoG8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9LsK74J_W0 Hopefully this aircraft can be recovered in time before it is picked apart by souvenir hunters. Horrido! Leo |
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Unfortunately, Leo, it would seem to have been picked apart the same day the video was made. :(
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Interesting news :)
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Incredible, appears to be the mount of my old friend 'Stocky' Edwards of 260 RAF.
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Fascinating pictures of a Kitty
Re the Picasaweb pictures: Photos 16 and 19 show faint signs of HS in front of roundel. This would make it a 260 Sqd RAF aircraft. Photo 10 shows it as H-87A3 - a P-40E model or Kittyhawk I (RAF equivalent). RAF Serials (AK591 to AK999) and (AL100 to AL230) a 3 wing gun model. RAF Cam Scheme only. Users: RAF (Desert). Doug |
Kittyhawk Found in Sahara
Hi guys
There is some speculation online that this might be Kittyhawk Ia (ET574) flown by F/Sgt Dennis Copping of 260 Sqn, RAF who went missing on 28 June 1942 during a ferry flight possibly due to a navigational error. I suppose that time will tell if this is correct or not. Horrido! Leo |
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Hello Doug & Leo,
Doug, I was wondering why you did not include the ET/EV serial range, wasit due to delivery dates ? Leo, ET574 would have been 41-35928. Ref Ab's "The BAC & Lend-Lease" page 234. So maybe the US number would be on the a/c somewhere ? Alex |
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In photo 10 of the picasaweb series of pictures it clearly shows the ref. H-87A-3 stamped in the wing and a part no. starting with 87....which would in indicate it was one of 540 Kittyhawks produced with the a/c serials in my previous thread. According to 'Curtiss Fighter Aircraft 1917-1948' by Francis Dean and Dan Hagedorn, page 294, the 540 aircraft were bought by the British government in Contract A-1835 commencing with AK591, before Lend Lease took effect.
The pipe type exhausts indicate an early model Kittyhawk, Mk I or IA. Looking through my Air Britain serials book (through the 540 a/c), assuming it is a 260 Sqd a/c, I could see only two possibles that could be considered: AL134 lost on 7.9.1942 AK693 lost on 16.5.1942 If someone could check the 260 Sqd RAF ORB there may be some clues from the above dates. I look forward to seeing if anyone can add any further info to what I have put forward. Doug |
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I look forward to the Libyan's transporting it to the Uk as a gift (to say thanks to the modern RAF for helping in their fight for freedom) and seeing it being resored to flying condition at Duxford.:D
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excuse me but nearly a month and no ONE-as ID who it belong too. just the 2-what about engine changes etc serial numbers. im not tryin to start a war' but for one P40 found its takin a long time to ID the pilot. sharon |
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Dave |
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I have AK951 AK999 C/N 18695 18743 as H87-A2 (Kittyhawk I) and AL100 AL230 C/N 18744 18874 as H87-A2 (Kittyhawk I) not not H-87A-3 ET100 ET519 C/N 19287 19706, USAAF 41-24776 41-25195 as H87-A3 P-40E-1 (Kittyhawk IA) and ET520 EV699 C/N 19707 20786 USAAF 41-35874 41-36953 as H87-A3 P-40E-1 (Kittyhawk IA) - Also one of the worlds best P-40 experts has tentively identified its a P-40E CU-1 subtype which is a H87-A3 |
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This aircraft is in the middle of no where.. Was found by people with no knowledge of aircraft serial numbers or construction numbers or how to find these experts initially (someone got his mate to post the first pictures on his modelling site probably because he was the only person he knew with an interest in aircraft - looking at the friends models he appears more interested in concept flying models anyway) and with no visible ID on it other than HS-B (and the 'B' only came later) - we will have to wait until the site is visited by people who know what to look for People have a suspect ID, but it is only that.. Paul |
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Sharon,
As Paul said, it is not as though you can just pop down the road to have a look. It is in the middle of Egypt, you need a vehicle, drivers and escorts. These guys are workers, not tourists and don't work 9-5, 5 days a week. One month! Considering the 'news' on the web is only 2 weeks old, I think we have a staggering amount of information. 15 years ago the news would be trickling through about some plane with roundels found in the desert and would have taken 6 months to get to where we are now! The ID is at the top of a list of very important questions/requests. If I asked you if you could tell me the engine number on a Ford Focus with number plate AF54 RFS located on the Shetlands, how long would it take you to get it to me? It is frustrating (you have no idea) as there is a lot wanting to confirm the identity and status of the pilot above anything else! Yours frustrated Mark |
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From some of the other forums,
"On 28/6/42 ET574 Piloted by F/Sgt DCH Copping 785025 left 260 for a ferry flight to an RSU . The A/C flew with u/c locked down due to damage . An incorrect course was set and the A/C was thought to have crashed in the Desert due to fuel exhaustion. F/Sgt Copping is listed as missing on that date Now I'm not saying this is the A/C , just that it MIGHT be, in view of :- a) there being no apparent signs of Battle damage b) the fact that the U/C was wiped off in the crash" "Have also been given the OK to confirm that the Royal Air Force Museum, Hendon. London are actively pursuing this P40 with the intention to recover and conserve. This is being dealt with at the highest levels." |
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I agree but remember 1956 lady b good found on newspapers. yet we have one of ours..you dont see it plastered today in the news- WW2 P40 FOUND INTACT IN THE DESERT.)even On the- News at Ten.. pathetic'''many moons ago circa 1988 -you would have seen a snipet in the newspapers or radio..RADIO ONE-as i recall mentioned flight 19 found have this on tape-/turned out not to be them...but at least we folks would have known..and BBc1s newsround featured them.. you wonder why kids-and erm -um-decent folks dont care .better been down the pub's.. where his the -MOD-not a whisper'' you got our army lads.fighting ' yet..this fellow died 70 years ago..and No One cares. sharon' |
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Nick but mainly pointed at Sharon
News Agencies are asking about the P40 but I want to confirm the ID's first to see if there is a pilot missing. Then I am sure it will be reported in the main press shortly after and RAFM are happy to report there interest and ongoing discussions. Mark |
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Hi.
looks like the MOD are gettin there hands dirty..an some have reported it his coming here home..the pilot ID his coppin''Flak damage? daily telegrapth. says. sharon |
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Apart from a lovely story, the only piece of good information in the story is that the aircraft was found. AFAIK it still hasn't been identified as Copping's aircraft (although many know it is - even missing that one small part called a serial number...but hey let not facts get in the way). I would love this to be confirmed as Copping's aircraft, and that a search of the surrounding area located and gave FSGT Copping his final resting place amongst other Allied Members. Buz |
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sharon |
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Nick,
Think it is more than a passing interest. Media have been bombarding RAFM, Andy S, Peter A and myself as well as the surveyor who found (as part of a team) who discovered and posted the photos. I'll stick to my day job and do this as a hobby with an article at the end. News broke yesterday and in nearly all UK papers, BBC, ITN news, now CNN etc. Think there is a bit more than a passing interest. Only concern is they are talking about it being Copping's aircraft - evidence supports it but still have no serial (just squadron codes and other hints). It is gradually being stripped. Most loose items, radio, IFF, battery and all tags and ID plates have already gone. Lets hope it gets secured. Otherwise we are just going to have 100 photos and two videos as memories. regards Mark |
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It was included on ITV News At Ten tonight, so I imagine the item will be available on the web somewhere before long.
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Yes, indeed. CNN's web site runs it as a front page story (including comments by "British military historian Andy Saunders"):
http://edition.cnn.com/2012/05/11/wo...html?hpt=hp_t3 |
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Interesting find of a curtiss P 40 in the desert of Egypt
http://pierrekosmidis.blogspot.com/2...g-post_14.html
The RAF pilot Denis Hopping lost his life in the desert, 300 km away of an inhabited area. |
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Byron,
please read some of the thread above, the SUGGESTED name of a the possible pilot is Dennis COPPING. Nothing is confirmed yet. |
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I would echo what Mark Sheppard says in his post.
As of yet, the pilot i/d has not been confirmed. Thus, when CNN and BBC World Service asked to talk to me about it (just bcause they wanted to tal to someone!) I made it clear that I wouldn't talk to them about the name of the pilot for obvious reasons. However, the supposed name was already out there on the net and thus the news outlets used it anyway. I'm afraid that some of the media did manage to rather garble what facts they were given, anyway! C'est la vie. |
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Hello to all,
I received from my friend Daniele Moretto the request to publish this link http://www.qattara.it/60-173%20Kittyhawk.htm Ciao Ludovico |
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Ludovico,
Now that 1035 has been reported and with the link, it is safe to report that the P40E Kittyhawk in the desert is now confirmed as Curtiss P40E-1-CU Curtiss shipping number 1035, construction number 19761, US serial 41-35928 and British serial ET574. From the loss card for ET574 we know F/Sgt Dennis Copping was flying this plane. The Copping family were made aware of the confirmation early last week but although the Kittyhawk has been found, F/Sgt Copping is still missing. RIP Mark |
Kittyhawk Found in Sahara
Hello
It appears that quite possibly the remains of F/Sgt Dennis Copping have been found. If true at least his family can now inter him with the respect and honor he deserves. http://www.qattara.it/versione%20in%...ESTO%20_1_.pdf RIP Leo |
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Some caution needs to be exercised until these have been confirmed as human.
The artefacts found with the reported remains contain nothing RAF-specific or aviator related, apart from the oddly positioned parachute part and with the remainder of the 'chute being with the P40 a long distance away. The copper disc seems to be from a 127lb box of some kind of cupro-related ore and, again, hard to associate this with the P40 or its pilot. Time will tell, but it would be wrong to jump to conclusions at this stage. Today is the 70th anniversary of the pilot's sad demise. RIP. |
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