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- - German docs in TSAMO (http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=41719)

Re: German docs in TSAMO

Akte 120. Lage und Bedürfnisse der rumänischen Luftwaffe. Luftabwehr Rumäniens (1941 - 1944).

http://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/d...de/grid/zoom/1

Verluste in Flugzeugen und Piloten von 22.6.1941 - 1.8.1944 (page 4):

625 in total, of which 221 fighters, 85 bombers, 87 surveillance planes, 19 seaplanes, 201 liaison planes, 12 transport planes

352 airmen killed

Re: German docs in TSAMO

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxim1 (Post 201663)

English translation of the file description follows below:

Situation and requirements of the Romanian Air Force. Air defence of Romania (22 June 1941 - 1 August 1944). The file contains the following documents:
2 diagrams "The Romanian Air Force against the Anglo-American air raids. Losses of aircraft and personnel." (Sheets.1-2);
Diagram "Romanian Air Force: Establishment, current inventory, deficit compared to establishment, losses of aircraft and pilots from 22 June 1941 to 1 August 1944" (Sheet.3);
Map "Air defences of Romania - fighters" (Sheet.4);
Map "Air defences of Romania - anti-aircraft artillery" (State - 1 August 1944)" (Sheet.5).

Thanks are due to Dénes Bernád for drawing my attention to the importance of the summary information on Romanian strength and losses contained in Sheet 3.

If we can assemble a set of English translations for the other relevant documents, this will be a very good thread :)

Regards,

Paul

Re: German docs in TSAMO

Hi Paul -

I have just completed a second run through all 3 of these record groups - OKW, OKH and H.Gr. Mitte - and found Luftwaffe material of value and interest in just 5 folders:

Record Group 12454
Akte 334, Akte 375, Akte 385, Akte 405 and Akte 409.

The 5 Akten are specifically marked "Luftwaffe". This should save resarchers some time.

So far, this collection is pretty much of a disappointment, but that's not a surprise once I scanned through it a couple of times and saw what the files were: nearly all Heeresgruppe Mitte Ia, Ic and Ic/AO Morgen-, Zwischen-, Tages- und Abendberichten. Many have a small 2 or 3 sentence summary of Lw.-Kdo. Ost (later Luftflotte 6) operations for the day, but these are shorn of all details - units are not identified and specific locations are usually not given. These thousands and thousands of pages are German Army ground-pounder reports and only occasionally mention the Luftwaffe in passing. What little of interest there is on the Luftwaffe is confined to the 5 Koluft files listed above.

You have mentioned the need for English translations several times and I am not sure why. Wouldn't it be reasonable to assume that most researchers interested in German documents would already have a working knowledge of written German? In those few cases where this might not be true, the researcher can certainly cut and paste the file's descriptive title into Google Translate and get a reasonable translation into their own language. Many researchers who have no German may be French, Finnish, Greek, Turkish, etc., and have little English either. Are my assumptions on this wrong?

L.

Re: German docs in TSAMO

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry deZeng (Post 201778)

Hello Larry,

Thank you very much for your sterling work, as always!

Your assumption that many researchers will not have a need for an English translation is correct. In fact, that group counts me among its members :) Nevertheless, I think it would be good to do the translations and post them here, as an aide-mémoire. For my own part, there is some material there which is not of direct relevance to my current research, but I might want to come back to it in the future. As it is now clear that there are very few translations to do, I shall do them and post them here myself.

Regards,

Paul

Re: German docs in TSAMO

Hi Paul,

I guess we should all keep the faith as the 3 collections up on the website (OKW, OKH, H.Gr. Mitte) are but a small fraction of the total - maybe 75,000 pages out of the 2,500,000 pages the TsAMO project claims to have. That's just 3%. That leaves a lot of room for the eventual appearance of additional Luftwaffe folders and files between now and the target completion date in 2018. Who knows? There may be some really good material just around the corner. :whoa: :grin:

L.

Re: German docs in TSAMO

O.K.H. Akte 440 contains lots of Luftwaffe Material. Activation of Stb./J.G. 3, J.G. 27, various Kampfgruppen, Schools etc...

Re: German docs in TSAMO

Thanks for adding that, Agan Wodas. I guess I missed it.

L. :blink:

Re: German docs in TSAMO

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry deZeng (Post 201792)

Hi Paul,

I guess we should all keep the faith as the 3 collections up on the website (OKW, OKH, H.Gr. Mitte) are but a small fraction of the total...

L.

Hello Larry,

First of all, apologies for the delay, got caught up in various tasks this week! I hope that you are right and that the collection will eventually 'give up' some treasures :) I have to say that I do not think that all the documents are going to be uploaded by 2018, they would have to work very efficiently to achieve that, which is unlikely. On the other hand, there is already something to build on, so a few of us will be waiting eagerly for news!

On a specific technical point, does anyone here know whether the website sends update notices? That would make life slightly easier.

Regards,

Paul

Re: German docs in TSAMO

First batch of translated annotations follows, for the 5 documents from the Army Group Centre collection:

http://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/d...de/grid/zoom/1
Reference: Bestand 500 Findbuch 12454 - Heeresgruppe B/Mitte Akte 334
Annotation: Annex to War Diary of Army Group Centre – Operations section - Document XIII: Luftwaffe, folder 2: reports of VIII Fliegerkorps regarding anti-partisan warfare, bombing attacks on own troops, operational reports, aerial reconnaissance reports etc.
Start Date: 24/11/1941
End Date: 31/03/1942

http://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/d...de/grid/zoom/1
Reference: Bestand 500 Findbuch 12454 - Heeresgruppe B/Mitte Akte 375
Annotation: Annex to War Diary of Army Group Centre – Operations section - Document XIII: Luftwaffe, folder 1: Orders for Operation Typhoon including troop movement orders, winter instructions, combat reports, service instructions, aerial reconnaissance reports, Luftwaffenkommando Ost order of battle, measures for the defence of the Luftwaffe ground organisation etc.
Start Date: 27/06/1941
End Date: 10/06/1944

http://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/d...de/grid/zoom/1
Reference: Bestand 500 Findbuch 12454 - Heeresgruppe B/Mitte Akte 385
Annotation: Annex to War Diary of Army Group Centre – Operations section - Document XIII: Luftwaffe, folder 3: reports regarding anti-partisan warfare, air transport for the Army Group, battlefield reconnaissance, operational missions etc.
Start Date: 01/04/1942
End Date: 28/06/1942

http://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/d...de/grid/zoom/1
Reference: Bestand 500 Findbuch 12454 - Heeresgruppe B/Mitte Akte 405
Annotation: Records of the Director of Training of Army Group Centre: replacements, guideline documents of the OKH (1.4.42-31.8.42), and correspondence regarding replacement personnel, reports on replacements and losses, unfilled positions, replacement units etc.
Start date 02/04/1942
End Date 31/08/1942

http://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/d...de/grid/zoom/1
Reference: Bestand 500 Findbuch 12454 - Heeresgruppe B/Mitte Akte 409
Annotation: Annex to War Diary of Army Group Centre – Operations section - Document XIII: Luftwaffe, folder 4 (1.7.42-31.8.42): - information on the aircraft reporting service, organisation of Luftwaffenkommando Ost, combat reports, comments on Red Army camouflage; decisions, experiences and policies of the General of the Flak Arm (pamphlet), for fighting partisans etc.
Start Date: 15/04/1942
End Date: 30/08/1942

Regards,

Paul

Re: German docs in TSAMO

Quote:

Originally Posted by NagaSadow (Post 201857)

O.K.H. Akte 440 contains lots of Luftwaffe Material. Activation of Stb./J.G. 3, J.G. 27, various Kampfgruppen, Schools etc...

Hello, was this one removed ? I can't find it any longer