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-   -   Late war Bf 109 pictures source (http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=27108)

Cpt_Farrel 10th January 2013 22:58

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 
Just commented on this in the photostream but I'll repeat it here, I rather believe WNF for three reasons:

1. Camouflage looks more like WNF than Erla
2. I believe that by the summer of 1944 Erla used the tall tails on their G-6's
3. The setup looks different from the photos I've seen from Erla taken in 1943.

Cheers! / Anders

Marc-André Haldimann 10th January 2013 23:01

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 
And last move for tonight: I've created a JGr 300 set in order to regroup all pictures known to me illustrating the effective application of the short horizontal black bar on the blue white blue RV bands, according to the order issued 26 April (!) 1945.

There are all told six different machines:

1. Bf 109 G-10 W.Nr. unknown "Gelbe 1", JGr 300, Germany, April 1945. Source: ebay.de.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...57625208099917

2. Bf 109 G-10 W.Nr. 150 816 "Schwarze 4", JGr 300, Langensalza, June 1945. Source: LEMB Forum.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...57625208099917

3. Bf 109 G-10 W.Nr 49x xxx "Schwarze 1", JGr. 300, Germany, May 1945. Source: Hildebrandt 1989, p. 3.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...57632486398923

4. Bf 109 G-10 W.Nr. unknown "Gelbe 6", JGr 300, Neubiberg, Germany, May 1945. Source: Ebay auction.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...57632486398923

5. Bf 109 G-10 W.Nr. 49. .06 "Schwarzer Winkel", JGr 300, Germany, May 1945. Source: Ebay auction.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...57632486398923

6. Bf 109 G-10 W.Nr. unknown, "Blaue 2", Fw. Josef Umminger, 16./JG 300 with JGr 300 horizontal bar, Buchau, 8 May 1945. Source: Collection Hesse, Luftwaffe im Focus Spezial no 3, Photo 60.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...57632486398923

Looking for an other one;-))

Cheers
Marc

Marc-André Haldimann 10th January 2013 23:04

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cpt_Farrel (Post 160464)
Just commented on this in the photostream but I'll repeat it here, I rather believe WNF for three reasons:

1. Camouflage looks more like WNF than Erla
2. I believe that by the summer of 1944 Erla used the tall tails on their G-6's
3. The setup looks different from the photos I've seen from Erla taken in 1943.

Cheers! / Anders

Many thanks Anders! I was ill at ease with Erla too, but the camouflage patterns between Erla and WNF at that time are too close for me to tell...

Cheers
Marc

Cpt_Farrel 10th January 2013 23:30

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 
About Bf109G-10 "Blaue 2" I believe 16./JG300 aircraft had indeed blue numerals but not with white outline. I believe the only staffel with a medium color numeral that has a white outline would be 11./JG300. If that's the case it's in other words an ex 11./JG300 a/c marked Green 2.

Marc-André Haldimann 10th January 2013 23:40

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 
You sure of that, Anders? If yes, I will correct the LiF caption;-))

Cheers
Marc

Cpt_Farrel 11th January 2013 07:46

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 
I would want to check through my references more but as I recall, neither I nor IV gruppe used any outlines at all on their numerals.

/Anders

Marc-André Haldimann 12th January 2013 12:41

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 
Great to have your feedback, Anders!

Cheers
Marc

the_ivan 12th January 2013 15:38

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc-André Haldimann (Post 160462)
Hi gang,

Another issue arises: where was this well known serie shot? My current guess is Erla Leipzig. Any confirmation would be much appreciated!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...in/photostream
http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...in/photostream

Cheers
Marc

My modus operandi: since Mtt Regensburg and Erla Leipzig camo styles are well defined and esily recognized, if doesn't match those, then must be from WNF. This leaves the option of main repair centres, but since these camo styles are not so well photo-documented... :D

Of interest in those photos are the ailerons, all visible have Flettner tabs. A number of machines received those in late 1943, but camo doesn't match the one applied in WNF at the time.

Marc-André Haldimann 25th January 2013 11:29

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 
Thanks for your input, the_ivan!

Cheers
Marc

Marc-André Haldimann 25th January 2013 12:26

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 
Folks,

A fresh look at this well known picture, recently proposed for sale on Ebay (http://www.luftwaffe-experten.org/fo...opic=14798&hl=, post 54)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...57631641014196

allows to tie down the location of another Ebay photo found on 21 December 2012 (same thread, post no 35):
http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...7631641014196/
Source: http://www.ebay.de/i...G-/121041866289

It is actually the machine seen half hidden under camouflage nets in the background above the rear fuselage of Bf109 K-4 W.Nr. 334 265. Notice the same spinner and blades orientation and the two wooden beams to be seen hanging diagonally to the right of the plane's left wing. There is thus a high chance this is another Bf109K-4.

A closer look at the camouflage nets makes me also think this is not only a single hardstand camouflage but the front part of an underwood alley, possibly the final assembly area where Mtt-"Bürg" (shortening for the Flossenbürg KZ fuselage production line) fuselages and Altenhammer wings were mated. this could also tie down the location of this Mtt-"Bürg" fuselage row hidden on a forest track (Holzrückerweg) shown in two pictures published in:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...57625380126592
Source: Hideki Noro 2009, "LO+ST", p.103

http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...7625380126592/
Source: Janowicz 2010, p.58

No certitude on my side, but just trying to tie down those loose ends of sometimes well known pictures not yet put in their proper context...

Cheers
Marc


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