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-   -   Late war Bf 109 pictures source (http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=27108)

Marc-André Haldimann 6th August 2013 08:31

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 
Hi there Gang,

Here, thanks to Peter D. Evans over on LEMB , a freshly found Bf 109 G-14 picture:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Shot-up-and-...-/271253003377

Two Bf 109 G can be seen. The front one is, given it's camouflage, a WNF built Bf 109 G-14, W.Nr. 51x xxx "Weisse 7", 1./JG 3 (note the thin red tailband behind the Balkenkreuz)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/28092068@N03/9444551601/

The second is a Mtt-Regensburg built Bf 109 G-14 W.Nr. 782 482 "Weisse 20" (?), 5./JG 3 (The thin red tailband is fully seen).
http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...n/photostream/

I./JG 3 and II./JG 3 ended up in May 1945 at Leck, near Hamburg. The seller of this picture also sports another pic of British soldiers of the Welsh Regiment, which 4 and 5 Battalion were effectively deployed at war's end in the area of Hamburg. It is thus probable that both planes were in effect found at Leck. Any confirmation would be highly appreciated!

Cheers
Marc

ouidjat 6th August 2013 14:33

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 
Nice pictures Marc.

Marc-André Haldimann 6th August 2013 17:20

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 
Thanks, Franck! Wishing to have one like this ever day;-))

Cheers
Marc

Marc-André Haldimann 1st September 2013 15:34

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 
In the slowly building-up of the white triangle atop the rudder marking on some late-war Bf 109's, I just found this picture:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/28092068@N03/9645958710/

Pilot is said to be Oskar Wehner, place is next to Fulda, date April 1945. My guess is that this is a NAGr Bf 109 G-6/R2 or G-8. An confirmation/details most welcome!

Cheers
Marc

Marc-André Haldimann 5th September 2013 18:31

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 
Hi folks,

Thanks to two great shots taken at Bayreuth-Bindlach by US Signal Corps after 14 April 1945, we have a new W.Nr.:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/28092068@N03/9677908457/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...n/photostream/
Bf 109 G-14 W.Nr. 463 196.

So far, I know of NAGr. Bromberg and its mixed complement of Bf 109 G-6/R2 and G-8. There is another picture of an abandoned Bf 109 K-4 from the W.Nr. 330 xxx - 331 xxx batch:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...57631646235608

Given it's yellow small tail band, this plane was affected to an unidentified Erg.JG. It is probably the same plane which can be seen still in its initial dispersal position on this pic, currently available on eBay (thanks Peter!):
http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...n/photostream/

Now we have this new Bf 109 G-14. Question: which were the units known to be stationed in Bayreuth-Bindlach in the Spring of 1945?

Thanks for your insights!
Marc

S Sheflin 5th September 2013 23:50

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 
Hello Marc,

First I want to thank you for all of your hard work on these Bf109 photos.

Regarding the Bf109 wreck photographed at Bayreuth-Bindlach:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/28092068@N03/9677908457/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...n/photostream/

I commented earlier on this aircraft over on the LEMB. I am very interested in how you concluded that this aircraft was from the Erla-built 46XXXX series?

Please note that its Werknummer is applied in the mid-fin/rudder position (my designation = Position 3) in which one digit is on the fin and five are on the rudder. Also, visible under magnification is what I perceive as an extended tail wheel leg.

I did some research in my Bf109 database file. I have 847 Erla-produced Bf109G-14s in my files. Of those for which I have photos (admittedly not the majority), the vast majority have their WNrn. applied on their fin caps (my designation = Position 1). Exactly three had their Werknummern applied in Position 3. Further, when I filtered for Erla-built Bf109G-14s with tall tail wheel legs, I found only one:

Bf109G-14 WNr. 464380, 1+ Y, 5aSq. II°Gr.C., Magg. Bellagambi, Italy 1945.

In my opinion, and unless I have missed some evidence in the photo, it is more likely that this aircraft is an Erla-built Bf109G-10 from the 15XXXX or 49XXXX series.

Steve Sheflin

Marc-André Haldimann 6th September 2013 01:20

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 
Steve,

First of all, many thanks for your praise...and your help! That's what my Flickr account is designed for: to share and build common benefit having a centralized and classified picture databank on an open base for all Bf 109's from the 1943 - 1945 time span.

As for the W.Nr. of the Erla W.Nr. built xxx 196, my conclusion after having blown up the image and fiddled around with contrast is that the third digit is a 3; this is the only numeral which fits what can be seen under the hanging camouflage net. This does exclude all Erla built Bf 109 G-10 in the 490xxx - 492xx batches and all W.Nr. 150xxx -152xxx as well.

This led me to an Erla built Bf 109 G-14, of which I do have five documented by pictures with their W.Nr. in your mid-rudder position (Position 3):

http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...7625539886908/
Bf 109 G-14 W.Nr. 464 362, unit unknown, Köthen, Germany, 15 April 1945. Source: Stockum Collection via stories.windmillpro.com. Please note that this one has also a tall tail wheel leg.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...57625539886908
Bf 109 G-14 W.Nr.464 863 "Rote 863", 2./JG 1xx, Germany, May 1945 Forsyth 2005, p. 278.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...7625539886908/
Bf 109 G-14/AS W.Nr. 465 381, unit and location unknown, Germany, April 1945. Source: 4th infantry Div, 8th Inf. Regiment via Facebook.com

http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...7625539886908/
Bf 109 G-14 W.Nr. 465 763 "Schwarze 9", Oblt. Erwin Günthner, 3./JG 52, Neisse-Stefansdorf, March 1945. Source: Flugzeug Classic 3. 2012, p. 18.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...7625539886908/
Bf 109 G-14 W.Nr. 465 765, II./JG 52, Deutsch Brod, May 1945. Source: http://www.asisbiz.com

W.Nr 463 196 would be thus the sixth case.


As for the long tail wheel leg, besides W.Nr. 464 380, I have also the above mentioned W.Nr. 464 362 and W.Nr. 464 642:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...57625539886908
Bf 109 G-14/AS W.Nr. 464 642 "Weisse 10", unit and location unknown, France (?), Summer 1945. Source: Collection Kees Mol.


One thing which I did not consider is that this could be a WNF built Bf 109 G-10. It could be considered, even if the highest recorded W.Nr. stops at 613 195 (II/JG 52, Neubiberg), according to Janda and Poruba 2004, p. 80. But no known occurrence of a tall tail wheel leg is known for WNF built Bf 109 G-10's...

There we stand, Steve. Not 100% sure but pretty confident.

Thanks again for your highly appreciated input
Marc

S Sheflin 6th September 2013 03:25

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 
Marc,

I stand corrected and will update my database and photo files.

Thanks,

Steve Sheflin

S Sheflin 6th September 2013 03:42

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 
Marc,

I stand corrected and will update my database and photo files.

Thanks,

Steve Sheflin

Rasmussen 6th September 2013 11:39

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 
Dear Marc,

I'd guess your conclusions are not correct. Your mentioned W.Nr. 464862 (an typo in your text because windmillpro said 8 not 3), 464863, 465381, 465763 and x65765 (the first number isn't seen by my best will) are correct with the number in the middle of the rudder but not an 463196 (if the number is correct). This a/c had the number for sure on the spin cap. Unfortunately I can't see your flick-account (although I have my own account) so I can't check the other pictures ... because AS-machines in the 464xxx - and 465xxx - batch are very strange too ...

Best regards
Rasmussen


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