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-   -   30 Incidents/Accidents Spitfire/Hurricane & Others Mostly Summer 1940 (http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=41562)

Observer1940 16th May 2015 22:02

30 Incidents/Accidents Spitfire/Hurricane & Others Mostly Summer 1940
 
Thought these might be of interest to researchers, I have summarised them from p/copies/ photos.

Regards Mark

Letter from Chief Technical Officer Fighter Command
11 Oct 1939 Hurricane L1596 of 32 Sqn Biggin Hill, Engine 1441/117896 failed
15 Jan 1940 Hurricane of 213 Sqn Wittering, 117665 Engine failure
14 Feb 1940 Merlin II engine 1935/118143 of 151 Sqn North Weald, failed after take off.

Letter to MAP 16 May 1940
15 May 1940 Hurricane P3648 flown by Mr Seth Smith Forced Landed 6 p.m., in a field near the village of Langley, on inverted flight test. Pilot landed with wheels retracted slightly injured, engine damaged. Aircraft already recovered by 16 May 1940 to Hawker’s at Langley.

All 1940 Crash Circulation Signals copies found in AIR 2/7182 & 2/2915 files at Kew:-

11/6 Hampden P1164, 144 Sqn, Sgt Fuller 565152; Sgt King 740447; Sgt Anderson 741226 and Sgt Goulder 551854, Hemswell Dispersal Field, u/c, Fuselage and airscrews damaged, equipped SAA and Bombs, 0015 hours.

22/7 Hurricane L1772, 601 Sqn, P/O McGrath 90967, Moral’s Farm Rose Green, Nr Pagham map reference Q3321 17.30 hours.

25/7 Hurricane N2590, 1 Canadian Sqn Croydon, F/O T.B. Little C.117, RAF Station Croydon (no time given).

27/7 Oxford P6817, RAF College (FTS), Sgt Ryan 742060, Barkstone Aerodrome Landing Ground, 0040 hours.

27/7 Battle L5293, 7 B.G.S., F/O H.R. Wheeler 70727, AC Barker 939176, In Sea 51 degs. 20 mins North, 4 degs. 15 mins. West, 0930 hours.

29/7 Our A.73 29/7, 43 Sqn, P/O K.C. Campbell 0830 hours. This Signal A.74 sent from Lympne.

29/7 Magister P6455, Unit RAF Station Wyton, P/O Dallin, Wattisham but no time stated.

29/7 Gladiator K7895, 112 Sqn, P/O Van der Heijden 40190, Sidi Barrani H1/100,976 7 (Corrupt Group) 6 1515 hours.

30/7 Harvard N7190, 6 S.F.T.S., Sgt Stubbs 745426, Turkdean Sheet 93 IML 1 inch 546392, 1830 hours.

02/8 Blenheim L1309, 107 Sqn, P/O Culling 42698, F/O Harte 70839, P/O G. Jones, Wattisham 2030hrs.

10/8 Anson N9852, Own Unit, (Signal from 10 S.F.T.S.), Sgt Harrop 748771, Ternhill 0300 hours.

11/8 Hurricane P3164, 145 Sqn Tangmere, S/Ldr Peel (33011), Swanage 1040 hours.

11/8 Hurricane P2951, 145 Sqn, Flying Officer G.R. Branch (90137) South of Swanage 1040 hours.

11/8 Spitfire R6702, 616 Sqn, P/O Casson 21000, Leconfield Aerodrome 1829 hours.

13/8 Hurricane P2920, 601 Sqn, F/O Clyde 09154, Tangmere approximately 0700 hours.

28/8 Tiger Moth GACDF, 13 E.F.T.S. White Waltham, LAC Moyes 912187, Yatesbury Aerodrome 18 hours approx.

29/8 Oxford R6292, 11 S.F.T.S. Sgt Brain 903400, Shawbury aerodrome 0940 hours.

30/8 Hurricane P2631, 253 Sqn Kenley, Sgt Cooper 741840, Not known 1600 hours.

30/8 Spitfire R6720 ZD-A, Unit unknown [Signal sent from Hawkinge], [bottom half with Pilot name ripped off] Bekesbourne Aerodrome 645734 1630 hours.

03/9 Spitfire R6963, 616 Sqn, F/S F Burnard 564553, Kenley Aerodrome 1445 hours.

04/9 Spitfire 3032 [no letter stated], 66 Sqn Kenley, P/O King, Hawkinge approx 1330 hours.

05/9 Spitfire P9428 41 Sqn, S/Ldr Hood 26110 (missing), [Signal sent from 54 Sqn], Unknown missing.

06/9 Spitfire N3227, 602 Sqn, Sgt G.A. Whipps 741028, 3 miles N.W. of Udimore near Rye at 1340 hours, abandoned by Pilot.

22/9 Mentor L4423, Stn Flight Northolt, F/O J.D. Pattison (correction) No.1 Canadian Sqn and passenger F/Lt W.E. Cockram RCAF Chaplain, Old Dean Common near Comberley map reference 329827 (Aldershot Command Map) 1250 hours.

23/9 Hurricane V7445, 73 Sqn, Sgt Perkins, Thames Estuary approx. 1000 hours.

03/10 Hawker Hart K6466, 9 S.F.T.S., Sgt Banks 742222, LAC Jenkin 902523, Monkton Farley Nr. Bath, 1030 hours.

Martin Gleeson 16th May 2015 22:44

Re: 30 Incidents/Accidents Spitfire/Hurricane & Others Mostly Summer 1940
 
Mark,

Thank you very much for your generosity and diligence. I have just checked a number of the entries on your list against the information held for the 'EAGLES OVER EUROPE' project, and found several new losses or extra details on others. I don't think we would have found this information otherwise.

Thanks once more,

Martin Gleeson.

Peter Cornwell 17th May 2015 09:10

Re: 30 Incidents/Accidents Spitfire/Hurricane & Others Mostly Summer 1940
 
Mark,

I would like to second Martin's comments on what I can see at a glance will prove to be a most useful listing. Thanks.

Observer1940 17th May 2015 11:49

Re: 30 Incidents/Accidents Spitfire/Hurricane & Others Mostly Summer 1940
 
Hello Martin and Peter

Thanks, there is a lot more information on some, details about what was damaged, several references to bail-outs etc. I have rechecked the list against photos and made a few slight corrections, the main one being the Oxford a/c noted in the amendment box.

Only a few have "enemy action", but many have all sorts of reasons such as striking obstructions etc., etc. A few are quite detailed as to damage, several just reporting the occurrence. Most are non-injury, or slight injury.

Some years ago, I found lists of recovered aircraft (Type and RAF Serial) and visits of Crash Inspectors, with the place given (mostly nearest town, village) for 1940, so I photocopied some of these 49MU ORB pages. I enquired with the RAF Museum to find any corresponding Accident Cards or Forced Landing Cards and came to the conclusion that some F.L. or Accident Cards must have been withheld from filming, squirelled away somewhere, or been lost. The Spitfire accidents seem to be represented the worst on the microfilm.

It would appear from other TNA, Kew, files that some RAF Fighter losses suggested as 'enemy action' by some, were originally classed as accidents (having an aviation cause, some probably exacerbated by war flying stresses/conditions). Although the fighter had been in action, there were no bullets lodged in the crashed aircaft, nor any holes found.

Mark

Martin Gleeson 17th May 2015 15:43

Re: 30 Incidents/Accidents Spitfire/Hurricane & Others Mostly Summer 1940
 
Mark,

By now I have had a lot of experience with Form 78s and Form 1180s for the 1939-1940 period. Firstly one has to recall the difficulties of the period, the retreat from France and Norway, the attack on Britain itself and the general peacetime environment in the RAF at the start of the war. By the latter I mean it took time for units to properly record their activities on paper. Most ORBs are deficient up to mid 1940 at least. Some record the weather in great detail but absolutely nothing about their flying activities (training). Many do not record some or all of their aircraft losses or forced landings, even deaths in a few cases. Many units in that first year especially recorded some accidents but not others.

I honestly do not believe that some F.1180s have been withheld. Some may have been lost (Example; only two AASF Battle F.1180s for the period 1 January to 9 May 1940 have survived). I know certain Spitfire F.1180s for 1940 were stolen c.1980/1990s, but am not fully aware of the exact circumstances or losses concerned.

It should be no surprise that some losses were incorrectly classed, considering the sheer quantity of casualties and pressures of the time. Not every inspector was fully trained for the task or sufficiently observant/keen. A great regret and frustration for us, but then I wasn't having bombs dropped around me !

Hope this helps,

Martin.

Observer1940 17th May 2015 18:00

Re: 30 Incidents/Accidents Spitfire/Hurricane & Others Mostly Summer 1940
 
Martin

Some years ago TNA, kindly allowed me to see a file, that could not be read on microfilm as they were written in pencil.

On the front and inside front was a warning that under no circumstances must anything be taken, or altered and that this file had once been stolen, was part of the files and documents recovered and that some items in the file may now be missing [or words to that effect].

I absolutely hate theft, it has wrecked a few historical records, such as British Library books.

Regarding your other comments, I'll email you.

Mark

paulmcmillan 18th May 2015 10:58

Re: 30 Incidents/Accidents Spitfire/Hurricane & Others Mostly Summer 1940
 
30/8 Spitfire R6720 ZD-A, Unit unknown [Signal sent from Hawkinge], [bottom half with Pilot name ripped off] Bekesbourne Aerodrome 645734 1630 hours.

I have this as P/O William Radclyffe ASSHETON #41979 of 222 Sqn Force Landed

paulmcmillan 18th May 2015 11:03

Re: 30 Incidents/Accidents Spitfire/Hurricane & Others Mostly Summer 1940
 
04/9 Spitfire 3032 [no letter stated], 66 Sqn Kenley, P/O King, Hawkinge approx 1330 hours.

Has to be N3032 of 66 Sqn which was Cat 2 on this date when shot down by Bf109's - It was obviously not seriously damaged as it was repaired very quickly and back in service as it was with 92 Sqn by 19-9-1940

It appears 'P/O King' is Flying Officer Peter James Christopher King #41298 who was killed the following day - It appears when he was killed he was still listed a P/O

paulmcmillan 18th May 2015 11:23

Re: 30 Incidents/Accidents Spitfire/Hurricane & Others Mostly Summer 1940
 
29/7 Our A.73 29/7, 43 Sqn, P/O K.C. Campbell 0830 hours. This Signal A.74 sent from Lympne.

Could this be Hurricane I L1955 of 43 Sqn which crash landed at
Brabourne Lees, near Ashford, Kent on this date P/O Kenneth Charles Campbell #79155 who was killed as a result

paulmcmillan 18th May 2015 14:35

Re: 30 Incidents/Accidents Spitfire/Hurricane & Others Mostly Summer 1940
 
14 Feb 1940 Merlin II engine 1935/118143 of 151 Sqn North Weald, failed after take off.

It looks like details of this are (including pilot and Aircraft) can be found in 151 Sqn ORB


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