Questions on 8th AF Swinemünde raid on 12 March 1945
 

Hello
in his book Der Brand, in Finnish translation Suuri Palo pp. 149 -51, German Historian Jörg Friedrich claims that for the bombing of Swinemünde/ Świnoujście on 12.March 1945 many of the bombs had very sensitive fuses in order to cause maximum casualties among the fugitives from East-Prussia and Pommern who were then in Swinemünde. According to Freeman’s The Mighty Eight War Diary the target was the marshalling yard of Swinemünde. Helmut Schnatz in http://www.bombenkrieg.historicum.net/themen/swinemuende.html claims that the Soviets had asked Spaatz to bomb Swinemünde because of the number of German warships there. And also writes that the bomb loads were entirely 1000lb GP bombs.
Many of the bombs clearly hit on the seaside parks where there were many fugitives and also some military units. And also in the harbour some refuge ships were sank. But also the railway station was badly hit.
Friedrich claims that the Germans saw the USAAF planes which flew exceptionally low and that there was also strafing. Now according to Freeman’s book the bombing was by H2X, Fry´s and Ethel’s history of the4th Fighter Group, Escort to Berlin, tells that the bombing was through 10/10ths cloud and “B Group attempted to go under the cloud deck and take pictures, but by the time the P-51s were down to 500ft over the water north of Swinemünde they were still in the soup.” I didn’t found anything from Merle’s 357FG history other than that the group made no ground claims between 4th and 18th March. Helmut Schnatz claims that there could be no ground strafing because it was clearly forbidden (11. Im Original: "G(rou)ps will not repeat not strafe ", Field Order 1742A, AFHRA Microfilm B 5022; "Strafing was prohibited", Report of Eighth Air Force Operations, S. 4, AFHRA Microfilm B 5021A.) and there was no ground claims on that day. On the other hand Osprey’s Down to Earth shows that orders forbidding the strafing not always stop it.
I’m writing a review on Friedrich’s book and because I had not paid more than a passing notice to Swinemünde bombing before, I’d like to know.
1) the fusing for the attack?
2) is there any information on possible strafing during the attack?

I hope that this will not start a flame war, I’m only interesting in answers on Swinemünde attack and my supposition is that Friedrich has when he describe this particular attack too easily waived off US sources when they run against German recollections. The book seems generally not be too imbalanced, even if the translation is awful in technical parts. And it is in some parts too moralistic to my taste.

TiA
Juha

A later addition: I forgot this, one possible explanation which explains some of the differences is that the target was the marshalling yard but some of the bombers bombed short. So part of the loads hit the harbour and the seaside parks. But that does not explain the differences in descriptions of the tactics used.

Re: Questions on 8th AF Swinemünde raid on 12 March 1945
 

Jörg friedrich is a bit wrong. There were no strafing US fighters in the Swinemünde area. Strafing was forbidden and there is not one report on strafing during the day. The only time that US fighters went 'down on the deck' was over Denmark where 339th FG shot down three German fighters near Haderslev.
It would also be a bit difficult for the fighters to strafe the target area after the bombing. The whole area was covered in smoke and lowhanging clouds.

The bombers dropped mainly 1.000 lb GP bombs. A third of these were with instant fuse and two thirds with short time delay .04 and .10. I have talked to one of the lead bombardiers and his bomb load was with .01 sec fuses.
The target was 'port area' and this was the normal procedure for attacking this type of target. Some of the bombs should detonate without penetrating the ground and give maximum blast effect against buildings and stores.

Re: Questions on 8th AF Swinemünde raid on 12 March 1945
 

Thanks a lot, Delmenhorst!
I'm trying to understand why the stories of the two sides are so different in this case and Your answer on fuses helped in this. Or at least it didn't demolish the explanation I had figured out. I wrote a much longer explanation but it seemed to have disappeared into byte space and now I must begin to earn my living. The conflict on attack altitude and on strafing remains but Your info on strafing is in line of that of Schnatz and of the histories of FGs I have. I think that Friedrich had in this case relied too much on the stories of German survivors and had dismissed too lightly the documents of the USAAF. But who knows? The truth is probably possible to find out from USAAF archives but I don't know if somebody had researched this attack.

but anyway
thanks a lot again
Juha

Re: Questions on 8th AF Swinemünde raid on 12 March 1945
 

Hi Juha
I won't say that I have researched the attack but I went through the files in the PRO about the attack on Swinemünde. I also spoke to a number of American fighter pilots that participated in the attack plus to a lead bombardier and a navigator who bombed Swinemünde. They considerered the attack to be 'just one of many'.

Re: Questions on 8th AF Swinemünde raid on 12 March 1945
 

Thanks a lot again for Your answer, Delmenhorst!
I tended to agree with You. Even if an attack by 661 heavy bombers against a sea resort, not so important harbour and an unimportant marshalling yard seemed an overkill there was the request by Russian, troops moving through the town and probably a fair amount of rail traffic, lot of shipping in the harbour and at least in April 1945 IIRC Swinemünde was a fortress (we know that Hitler declared many towns as fortress but IIRC among other troops Swinemünde fortress had an A/T unit with 10 Hertzers in April 45). And if the clouds covered much of Germany on that day Swinemünde should have been easily recognizable from the cathode-tube of H2X and so a good target for blind/radar bombing.

Juha

Re: Questions on 8th AF Swinemünde raid on 12 March 1945
 

Dear Juha

I happen to have the details of the Ordnance expended on March 12th 1945 by 8th USAAF.

They were:

100lb M30 x 6,657;
250lb M57 x 232
300lb M31 x 180
1000lb M44 x 130
1000lb M65 x 692
1000lb RDX x 257
500lb M17 x 442.

Fusing was:

Nose fuses
ANM 103 Inst x 3643;
ANM 103 0.1 x 952
M127 Mech. Time x 294
M138 Mech. Time x 150

Tail fuses:
M100A2 x 7073
M102A2 x 1084

I think I have the ammunition expenditures for this day as well, somewhere. This might be useful, I think

ChrisG

Re: Questions on 8th AF Swinemünde raid on 12 March 1945
 

Hello Chris and thank You very much indeed!!!
Very useful, I must check the bomb types tonight from Freeman's 8th AF War Manual, but 100 and 300 lbs might have been frags, but I must check that.

Thankfully
Juha

Re: Questions on 8th AF Swinemünde raid on 12 March 1945
 

Hello again, Chris
I added up the total weight of the bombs on Your list and got ”only” 2.077.700lb. Now Helmut Schnatz gives in his web-article different load and gives the weight of the bombs dropped on Swinemünde as 1.608,5 Tonne (US, 1.457,3 to metric). When I saw that first time I compared that to the figures Freeman gives in his The Mighty Eight War Diary. I did only rough adding but Freeman’s figure was appr. the same. And 8th AF attacked also other marshalling yards on that day according to Freeman.
Would You like comment that?
I’ll make a more exact calculation on Freeman’s figures tonight or tomorrow. The Society of Finnish Military Historians has a meeting today and I don’t know when I’ll be back home tonight.

And thanks again for Your list
Juha

Re: Questions on 8th AF Swinemünde raid on 12 March 1945
 

I checked from Freeman, others are GPs but M-17s which were incendiaries, air bursting with M-127 and M-138 fuses. 100lb bombs were usual in attacks on marshalling yards. According to Freeman bombers of 8th AF dropped on 12 March 45 3003 tons/tonnes of bombs of which 1608,5 on Swinemünde. Maybe the M-17s gave to German refugees impression that they were under fragmentation bomb attack.

Juha

Re: Questions on 8th AF Swinemünde raid on 12 March 1945
 

Dear Juha

Small wonder my data gave you lower totals than the secondary sources indicated -I summarised the expenditures of 1AD only. Apologies. The ordnance Expenditures of 2 and 3AD still to come. A quick look at it indicates it is more of the same, although some oddities like 'P' (Progaganda) bombs etc. I'll try to get this data up at the weekend as I am a bit rushed for time at the moment. I'll give you doc citation should you want it.

Incidentally the article on Dresden in the North -does S give casualty citation in the 20,000 (twenty thousands) -or am I getting that bit wrong?

The Geheimentagesberichte Rep gives c 1500 casualties does'nt it???


ChrisG

Re: Questions on 8th AF Swinemünde raid on 12 March 1945
 

Hello Chris
I have again problems in sending messages. A new try.
Thanks again for the info. It would be nice to have info on the loads of 2 and 3 AD but the most important info for me was that their loads were much the same that those of the 1 AD. Most important was that there was no Mk 81s or other frags. And source information is always welcome.
As I understand Helmut Schnatz’s article (and my knowledge on German has always been very limited and is nowadays also very rusty) is that he tries to deny the claim, which seems to have gaining ground in today’s Germany , of 23.000 killed. According to him 4.000 – 5.000 killed is a more realistic figure.
Friedrich writes that there were over 1.600 identified dead but that most victims were buried without identification. According to him the figure of 23.000 killed is from local sources but he also has his doubts and writes that maybe a ½ or a third of that number is the truth.

Thanks again
Juha

Re: Questions on 8th AF Swinemünde raid on 12 March 1945
 

Hello again Chris
according to Freeman, 1 AD as well as the other two ADs dropped appr. a half of their loads to Swinemünde and the other half on other targets which were, according to Freeman, all marshalling yards. This makes the situation more complicated because I don’t know if the loads dropped to Swinemünde were more or less identical to those dropped to other targets or not.
There is not necessary conflict with the 1 AD load list that You gave and the info Delmenhorst and Helmut Schnatz have given even if it is little bit odd to me that 1 AD would have dropped almost all of its 1000lb bombs to Swinemünde and all the lighter ones to other targets, but 100lb bombs were used mostly against marshalling yards but I think that some 1000lbs ought to be dropped to those targets as well. But this is pure speculation. When I’ll get some free time I’ll try to obtain Helmut Schnatz’s book Der Luftangriff auf Swinemünde. Dokumentation einr Tragödie, Herbig Verlag, München 2004 and read it.

Juha

Re: Questions on 8th AF Swinemünde raid on 12 March 1945
 

I have 661 a/c bombing Swinemünde with full fighter escort. The attack took place between 12.06 and 13.00. The total tonnage was 3216 x 1000 lb GP and 2 x 500 lb GP plus markers. The attacking force reported after the attack: 'Bombs are seen falling but no bursts are visible on completely cloud obscured photographs. Columns of smoke are seen rising through the undercast'.
I have the following units attacking:
95A 12 a/c bombed - target Swinemünde Port Area 56 x 1000 H.E.
95B 11 a/c bombed - target Swinemünde Port Area 48 x 1000 H.E.
95B 1 plane bombed - target T/O Husum M/Y 5 x 1000 H.E.
95C 13 a/c bombed - target Swinemünde Port Area 63 x 1000 H.E.
100 A 12 a/c bombed - target Swinemünde Port Area 59 x 1000 H.E.
100B 11 a/c bombed - target Swinemünde Port Area 54 x 1000 H.E.
100C 13 a/c bombed - target Swinemünde Port Area 64 x 1000 H.E.
486A 9 a/c bombed - target Swinemünde Port Area 45 x 1000 H.E.
486B 10 a/c bombed - target Swinemünde Port Area 50 x 1000 H.E.
486C 10 a/c bombed - target Swinemünde Port Area 50 x 1000 H.E.
486D 9 a/c bombed - target Swinemünde Port Area 45 x 1000 H.E.
34A 12 a/c bombed - target Swinemünde Port Area 60 x 1000 H.E.
34B 12 a/c bombed - target Swinemünde Port Area 59 x 1000 H.E.
34C 12 a/c bombed - target Swinemünde Port Area 60 x 1000 H.E.
385A 12 a/c bombed - target Swinemünde Port Area 60 x 1000 H.E.
385B 13 a/c bombed - target Swinemünde Port Area 65 x 1000 H.E.
385C 13 a/c bombed - target Swinemünde Port Area 65 x 1000 H.E.
452A 12 a/c bombed - target Swinemünde Port Area 57 x 1000 H.E.
452B 13 a/c bombed - target Swinemünde Port Area 65 x 1000 H.E.
452C 13 a/c bombed - target Swinemünde Port Area 65 x 1000 H.E.
389A 10 a/c bombed - target Swinemünde Port Area 44 x 1000 H.E.
389B 10 a/c bombed - target Swinemünde Port Area 47 x 1000 H.E.
389C 10 a/c bombed - target Swinemünde Port Area 47 x 1000 H.E.
445A 11 a/c bombed - target Swinemünde Port Area 49 x 1000 H.E. 2 x 70 Incd
445B 11 a/c bombed - target Swinemünde Port Area 52 x 1000 H.E. 1 x 70 Incd
445C 11 a/c bombed - target Swinemünde Port Area 52 x 1000 H.E. 1 x 70 Incd
392A 10 a/c bombed - target Swinemünde Port Area 52 x 1000 H.E. 4 x 70 Incd
392B 10 a/c bombed - target Swinemünde Port Area 52 x 1000 H.E. 4 x 70 Incd
392C 8 a/c bombed - target Swinemünde Port Area 40 x 1000 H.E. 4 x 70 Incd
93A 11 a/c bombed - target Swinemünde Port Area 49 x 1000 H.E.
93B 11 a/c bombed - target Swinemünde Port Area 52 x 1000 H.E.
93C 11 a/c bombed - target Swinemünde Port Area 52 x 1000 H.E.
446A 9 a/c bombed - target Swinemünde Port Area 44 x 1000 H.E.
446B 10 a/c bombed - target Swinemünde Port Area 51 x 1000 H.E.
446C 9 a/c bombed - target Swinemünde Port Area 44 x 1000 H.E.
448A 11 a/c bombed - target Swinemünde Port Area 49 x 1000 H.E.
448B 10 a/c bombed - target Swinemünde Port Area 45 x 1000 H.E. 1 x 70 Incd
448C 11 a/c bombed - target Swinemünde Port Area 52 x 1000 H.E. 1 x 70 Incd
467A 9 a/c bombed - target Swinemünde Port Area 43 x 1000 H.E.
467B 9 a/c bombed - target Swinemünde Port Area 44 x 12000
467C 9 a/c bombed - target Swinemünde Port Area 43 x 1000 H.E.
467D 9 a/c bombed - target Swinemünde Port Area 39 x 1000 H.E. + 2 x 500 H.E.
401A 12 a/c bombed - target Swinemünde Port Area 60 x 1000 H.E.
401B 12 a/c bombed - target Swinemünde Port Area 60 x 1000 H.E.
401C 12 a/c bombed - target Swinemünde Port Area 60 x 1000 H.E.
457A 12 a/c bombed - target Swinemünde Port Area 60 x 1000 H.E.
457B 11 a/c bombed - target Swinemünde Port Area 55 x 1000 H.E.
457C 12 a/c bombed - target Swinemünde Port Area 60 x 1000 H.E.
92A 12 a/c bombed - target Swinemünde Port Area 60 x 1000 H.E.
92B 12 a/c bombed - target Swinemünde Port Area 60 x 1000 H.E.
92C 12 a/c bombed - target Swinemünde Port Area 60 x 1000 H.E.
305A 12 a/c bombed - target Swinemünde Port Area 60 x 1000 H.E.
305B 12 a/c bombed - target Swinemünde Port Area 60 x 1000 H.E.
305C 12 a/c bombed - target Swinemünde Port Area 60 x 1000 H.E.
306A 12 a/c bombed - target Swinemünde Port Area 60 x 1000 H.E.
306B 12 a/c bombed - target Swinemünde Port Area 60 x 1000 H.E.
306C 12 a/c bombed - target Swinemünde Port Area 59 x 1000 H.E.
351A 12 a/c bombed - target Swinemünde Port Area 60 x 1000 H.E.
351B 12 a/c bombed - target Swinemünde Port Area 60 x 1000 H.E.
351C 12 a/c bombed - target Swinemünde Port Area 65 x 1000 H.E.
One of the participating crews was Lt B F Cummings from 95th BG. His route to and from the target was as follows:
0743 hours take of and circling BV23
0832 hours circling B 23
0609 hours over southwold
0910 hours 5227N 0148E
0922 hours 5446N 0227E
0935 hours 5305N 0313E
0945 hours 5318N 0348E
0953 hours 5333N 0417E
0953 hours 5333N 0417E
1021 hours 5406N 0600E
1037 hours met escort fighters
1055 hours B-24 aborting
1103 hours 5432N 0856E
1105 hours carpet on
1118 hours 5442N 1002E smoke screen over Schleswig
1207 hours on bombing run
1210 hours started chaff
1219 hours flak meager, barrage low, bombs away
1223 hours stopped chaff
1313 hours 5433N 1109E
1323 hours 5433N 1002E
1338 hours 5232N 0857E
1355 hours carpet off
1429 hours 5351N 0558E
1931 hours 5346N 0547E
1438 hours 5336N 0516E
1501 hours 5314N 0355E
1511 hours 5304N 0320E
1606 hours landed
A report the 15th of March states: 'The town of Swinemünde has been heavily damaged by HE. Five separate concentrations are visible. The first lies across the centre of the town causing destruction to business and residential property and cluttring roads with rubble. The second saturates the south bank of the Swine destroyeing or damaging a small factory, 3 (probable) warehouses near the boat harbour, a large number of buildings in a hutted area, and private property in the village of Ostswine. The three remaining concentrations are found in the suburbs of Der Strand, West Swine and Friedrichstater affecting small houses and hutments.
Little can be said regarding damage in the Port Area because the coaling harbour and north bank of the Swine is obscured by a smoke screen operating on the Grüne Fläcke. it is seen however that several buildings in the vicinity of the Bau Harbour have been hit and one small and one medium building near the seaplane base have been damaged'.
This was followed up with an other report the 21st of March: 'Further cover reveals moderate fresh damage mainly in the region of the naval base on the east side of the River Swine where a number of unidentified buildings have been destroyed or damaged.
There is damage in the Bau Harbour and Coaling Harbour. One liner is capsized and two m/v are sunk.
Details of damage are as follows:
Naval base: A large number of unidentified buildings of varying sizes have been either destroyed or damaged. (Assessment is somewhat hapered by only having stereo cover on small scale prints).
Coaling Harbour: On the river Swine side of the eastern quay, section of the quay has been destroyed. there are also four craters in open gound between the Coaling harbour and the Winter harbour.
Bau Harbour: A small number of craters on the N quay.
In addition to the above there is moderate business/residential damage in the area North of the entrance to the Winter and Coaling harbours. There is a very large group of craters in open ground north of the Bau Harbour.
A liner (L26 Cabania type) capsized alongside the Eichstanden Dock. One m/v 300-350' sunk in mid channel off the Boat Harbour and one m/v 330' sunk at the railway quay.

I hope that this helps you a bit forward in your research
Carsten

Re: Questions on 8th AF Swinemünde raid on 12 March 1945
 

Thanks a lot Carsten!!!
That helps a lot!!
Yes, it definitely seems that the port was the target.
And thanks for confirming that I had understood correctly the after action report from Helmut Schnatz's page.
And thanks also for the route of Lt B F Cummings' plane. I have always liked that kind of details, from those one can figure out tactics etc.
I'm little bit disappointed that Freeman gives the marshalling yard as the target. I have liked his books, especially the War Diary because it’s handy reference. But there seems not to be a book without at least some errors. But if Freeman is right that all the other targets of the day were M/Ys it is perhaps an understandably error, there is so much data in the book.
It would be nice to have a BG history in one's bookself which would have all those little technical info on missions in it. Loadings, fuses used, routes used etc.

But thanks again, I’m deeply indebted
Juha

Re: Questions on 8th AF Swinemünde raid on 12 March 1945
 

Juha

Time to add some more to Thursdays posting on Mission Expenditure reports for March 12th 1945. The data are from USAAF Form 00-Amm-2BB, stamped by the Ordnance Officer, Hq 8th Air Force, APO 654 (I think) US Army, for March 12th 1945.

300M31 1000GP 1000RDX 500RDX 500M17 250GP 100GP P 500XII

1AD: 180 822 257 - 442 252 6,657 - -

2AD: - 918 162 4 - - 6,152 30 2

3AD: - 1097 057 - - 450 9,252 30 -

TOTs 180 2,837 476 4 442 702 22,341 60 2


Fusing details to follow asap.


ChrisG

Re: Questions on 8th AF Swinemünde raid on 12 March 1945
 

Thanks a lot again, Chris.
Delmenhorst gives 3.211 1000lb GP bombs dropped on Swinemünde if I calculated the figures right, and in Your list there are 3.293 those bombs. So it is still possible to accept both, even if that means that 97,5% of 1000lb GPs were dropped on Swinemünde. The problem is those 18 70 Incd dropped by 2AD according to Delmenhorst’s message. Those suit the description of M47A2 (an incendiary bomb of 70lb nominal weight), but according to Freeman, it was not used by 8th AF. But in Freeman’s War Manual there is surprisingly little on bombs when one remembers that the original raison d’être of 8th was the bombing, so there might be other bombs which suited in the description or maybe 500XII in Your list means M12 cluster. According to Freeman M12 was a cluster of 6lb M69 incendiary bombs. He doesn’t tell how many bombs there were in one cluster but 70*6lb makes 420lb, add to weight of the case or other material which keeps the cluster together one gets enough close to 500lb that the cluster might have got to nominal 500lb range. After all the M17 cluster had 110 4lb M50A1s. But according to Your list 2AD dropped only 2 500XII and only 6 500lb bombs altogether and there are 20 500lbs in Delmenhorst's list. Maybe at some level there has been a clerical error. Or maybe there just wasn’t column for every type of bombs in the loading sheets, so some were put down in the column the clerk thought as the nearest equivalent.
But You both seemed to agree that there were no fragmentation bombs and that's the most important info to me just now because of the book review. The other info is also important and have greatly enhanced my knowledge on the Swinemünde attack on which I knew next to nothing only a few weeks ago.
So again thanks a lot for Your input and effort
Juha

Re: Questions on 8th AF Swinemünde raid on 12 March 1945
 

Dear Juha

It would seem clear from these TOCH exchanges, which have brought to light the Ordnance expenditures for March 12th 1945, that Swinemuinde was not plastered with fragmentation bombs on that day, nor were the fuses used on the Ordnance dropped anything much out of the ordinary.
Your Review can nail this canard, therefore. I think it can also nail the attendant claim that there were very high casualty figures.

I think it is also clear that the target on the day was the Port, despite Freemans citation of the target as an M/Y. Since the remainder of the day's targets were Marshalling Yards, I think we have a clear typo.

You might wish to know a bit on the Intelligence asessments of the attack, which Delmenhorst cites. The SA report on the attack was issued on March 13th 1945. This is Report No SA 3376. The first post attack reconnaissance cover of the town was on March 15th 1945. This generated Report No K-Imm 3975, which was issued on March 16th 1945. The town was again photographed on March 21st 1945, and this resulted in Report No K-Imm Supp 3975, which was issued on March 23rd 1945. A Final report was issued on the same day (Report No K 3975). Two days later, on March 25th 1945 the town was again Photographed. No report on this imagery seems to have been issued.

Incidentally, I have seen RAF imagery of Swinemunde taken on May 4th 1945, while the town was under Russian air attack. Its amazing stuff, and unpublished still.

Best

Chris Going

Re: Questions on 8th AF Swinemünde raid on 12 March 1945
 

Hello Chris
and thanks a lot again for the identicication of the sources!

To both Chris and Carsten
I can only say to You both Thanks a lot for Your help!
The info You gave helped me greatly in the writing of the review.
I have now read the book and I’m doing the finishing touches to my review. I think that it’s important to get facts right on the Swinemünde attack. Even if at the time of Internet and of rather good foreign languages skills of Finns the translations are not so important that they used to be it’s still important to try to hinder the birth of new myths.
On Friedrich’s defence I have to say that usually he has got his facts right even if his book is in places rather one-sided and in a few places provocative.

Thankfully
Juha

Re: Questions on 8th AF Swinemünde raid on 12 March 1945
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juha The book seems generally not be too imbalanced, even if the translation is awful in technical parts.

As the Finnish translator of the book Suuri palo, I would like to know what technical parts are actually translated in an awful way.

Re: Questions on 8th AF Swinemünde raid on 12 March 1945
 

M. Lang, because the nyances of Finnish language probably don't have wider appeal in this forum, I sent my answer to You as a private message.

Chris and Carsten
I forgot this. If You'll someday need some help concerning on the history of Finnish AF, please ask. I would try to help as well as i can.

Juha

Re: Questions on 8th AF Swinemünde raid on 12 March 1945
 

I have now read your review which is published elsewhere in Finnish (http://agricola.utu.fi/nyt/arvos/arv...?arvostelu=915). Unfortunately, I have to point out for you that your review is badly composed (you don't write proper Finnish sentences, you don't punctuate correctly and you repeatedly misspell) and I cannot accept your criticism: as you don't write proper Finnish, can you assess the work of a professional translator?

I discuss your review more closely in a Finnish rejoinder but I consider it necessary to defend my work briefly here as well.

You blame my translation of several errors in technical parts, but you don't care to point them out except for a couple of misreadings – so I cannot add them to the errata list: http://www.elisanet.fi/markus.lang/friedrich.html. I assume that you did not read the original text in order to see which problems stem from Dr. Friedrich and which from the translator.

In your review, it surprises me that you do not recognize the difference between USAF and USAAF.

Re: Questions on 8th AF Swinemünde raid on 12 March 1945
 

Hello Marcus
yes, my Finnish seems to have suffered from my extensive readings of English language books, especially my ability to use enough commas.

On your translation, in fact I got a couple e-mails after my review was published in which I was said to have been too soft on your translation. The writers had bought the book but had stopped the reading after 25-30pages because the text was so difficult to understand properly. And I must admit that if I had not promised to review the book, I might have done the same, I cannot say for sure. I fought through the first 100 or so pages and I was rewarded with the rest of the book, in which the translation is OK. The book seems to have anti-Anglo-American tendency but has it's merits.

Please, ask someone with knowledge on aeronautical and military terms to read the first 100 or so pages of the book and ask his/her oppinion and add his/her corrections to Your errata list.

Juha

Re: Questions on 8th AF Swinemünde raid on 12 March 1945
 

I recently (Oct 1, 2009) returned from Swinemunde and Peenemunde. I am in the process of writing a book and short film on the events surrounding March 12th 1945.

My Mother Veronika was stationed there for ~ 1-year. She survived.

I can tell you with little doubt that there was considerable strafing on that day.

Bela

Re: Questions on 8th AF Swinemünde raid on 12 March 1945
 

Hello Bela
Yes, there was very probably at least some strafing, but by whom? From Field Order 1742A (order to Fighter Groups for 12.3.45 )by the 8th AF/FC "...Groups will not repeat not strafe...”

On the other hand during the night 12/13.3.45 Korpsgruppe von Tettau, consisting 10.700 soldiers and 12.000 - 17.000 civilians, had broken from East along the Baltic coast through Soviet lines into Dievenow/Dziwnów on the Wollin island and the civilians had then continued towards Schwinemünde and after daybreak were attacked by Soviet planes .

Now, according to USAAF info Schwinemünde was under 10/10 cloud and bombing was made using H2X radars. Some fighters had orders to take photos on bomb damage but at least according to 4th FG unit history the planes ordered to do this gave up this job after descending through clouds to 500ft and still being inside clouds. Now IMHO it is difficult to say anything as absolutely sure when we talk about fighters, some US fighters may have got under clouds and strafe contrary to orders but I doubt that if that had happened it was widespread. At least some Soviet planes seemed to have strafed but they came from East or from SE (USAAF game from North) and approached at low level, US fighters were escorting the bombers, which flow above the clouds and they had to try to get down through clouds.

Juha

Re: Questions on 8th AF Swinemünde raid on 12 March 1945
 

Juha - I do not think there was a 'strafing ban' placed on 8th AF FC until April 11 (for two days). No strafing meant that nobody was enthusiastic about trying to get to the deck when German light AA would have perfect altitude fuzing info!

The cloud cover was described as 10/10. The 355th escorted 2nd BD B-24s and notes that the target was bombed at 1205 - implying the lead bomb group/wing dropped at that time.

Regards,

Bill

Re: Questions on 8th AF Swinemünde raid on 12 March 1945
 

Hello Drgondog
that was not a general ban but for that day ops, IIRC I figured that the reason was the nearness of Soviet frontline, some 20-25km East of Schwinemünde. Top brass wanted to avoid friedly fire incidences.

I recall that there is a photo in one of Freeman's 8th AF book, taken during that bombing and showing solid overcast below bombers.

Juha

Re: Questions on 8th AF Swinemünde raid on 12 March 1945
 

Juha - that makes sense - I misread what you said to imply ETO wide ban on strafing, not local to just Swinemunde area - for the reasons you stated.

Regards,

Bill

Re: Questions on 8th AF Swinemünde raid on 12 March 1945
 

Hello Drgondog
checked what material I used 4 years ago. I didn’t see the order itself but Helmut Schnatz referred it in his book on Schwinemünde bombing. From my sources I could only confirm that the order number and the date matched. And I didn’t had to figure the reason, Schnatz gives it in his book, and as you wrote it makes sense, especially because the front was active and the Soviet military had asked the attack in order to eliminate the powerful German naval formation which used Schwinemünde as its base and which gave powerful artillery support to German units trapped into some town along the coast, of which Kolberg was most famous. IIRC also Korpsgruppe von Tettau got some support while fighting its way along the coast towards Dievenow/Dziwnów.

Juha

Re: Questions on 8th AF Swinemünde raid on 12 March 1945
 

Hey chaps.

Might be a wee bit out of context, but take a look at the Missing Aircrew Report, re. CO 336th Major Mcfarlane, shot down in a P51 over Denmark that day:
http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/1163/presentation5.jpg

Also his own words recorded afterwards found at:
http://www.fourthfightergroup.com/resource/tourist.html

Its a really good read & of interest to any Danish readers.

Dave