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-   -   Japanese pilot opinions on the J2M (http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=54672)

Jukka Juutinen 13th August 2019 13:26

Japanese pilot opinions on the J2M
 
In Aeroplane issue July 2019 there was an article on the J2M. The article was a fine example of the low quality of the current Aeroplane for it was far less detailed than the J2M article published in Air International /Air Enthusiast some 40 years ago! At the end of the article there was the usual claim that Japanese pilots considered it heavy and ponderous. Yet, neither does this article nor any other source (in English) claiming that provide any solid evidence, i.e. pilots' names and their actual personal accounts.

Ryann1k2j 23rd August 2019 07:07

Re: Japanese pilot opinions on the J2M
 
In Saburo Sakai's "Samurai", he* writes, "It was well suited to bomber attack but, like the Shiden, demanded high skill from its pilots. The overemphasis on speed and armament made the plane logy in aerobatics. Compared to the Zero in this respect, it flew like a truck. We suffered appalling losses in training. Later, when the Hellcats and Mustangs roamed over Japan proper, those pilots in Raidens who opposed the enemy fighters discovered all too late the airplane's inability to maneuver."

Later, "Where the Raiden shone against the B-29, it was helpless before the swifter, more maneuverable Mustang", and, in giving a pocket description of Sadaaki (Teimei) Akamatsu he writes "Akamatsu shot down no less than ten of these excellent enemy planes [F6F & P-51] while flying the Raiden, a feat most other pilots considered to be impossible."


*He or Martin Caidin,who had a heavy hand in the eventual translation.

Jukka Juutinen 24th August 2019 16:09

Re: Japanese pilot opinions on the J2M
 
Hmm, Allied test report describes it as easy to fly with good turning aided by Fowler flaps. So I wonder how reliable are Sakai's comments.

JBL1177 26th August 2019 00:46

Re: Japanese pilot opinions on the J2M
 
It is absolutely necessary to be careful with portions of Caiden's "Samurai" because of his ignorance of Japanese technical vocabulary and his editorial additions. For example, Caiden initiated the confusion over the type of USN carrier planes Sakai attacked on 7 August 1942 and which wounded him. Caiden didn't understand that the term "kanbaku" (carrier bomber) meant dive bomber, while "kanko" (carrier attack plane) was torpedo bomber. Sakai wrote that he attacked kanbaku, actually SBD Dauntless dive bombers, which Caiden wrongly assumed were TBF Avenger torpedo planes. There was never any confusion in Japan. For example the motion picture on Sakai depicted his opponents as SBDs.

Best wishes,
John

Graham Boak 26th August 2019 12:43

Re: Japanese pilot opinions on the J2M
 
It had a higher wing loading that the Zero and other similar Japanese fighters, so cannot help but have lower manoeuvrability. It is entirely a matter of what you are used to - most Allied fighters (particularly US and carrier types) had similar wing loadings so it would seem unremarkable to pilots used to these types. Sakai's comments are entirely reliable when viewed with this in mind. If Sakai had ever had to fight with the Raiden he would have learned to make use of its superior power.

I suspect that much the same background will have affected his judgement of the Shiden.

Jukka Juutinen 26th August 2019 13:00

Re: Japanese pilot opinions on the J2M
 
Graham, shouldn't manoeuvrability be considered as a combination of rates of turn and roll? Sakai's account also claims that the P-51 was more manoeuvrable. Was it? Probably the P-51 rolled faster, but very likely the J2M turned better, especially with its Fowler flaps deployed.

Graham Boak 26th August 2019 18:18

Re: Japanese pilot opinions on the J2M
 
Manoeuvrability is difficult to pin down. Peak values of turn rates and roll rates are valuable guides, but also the rates of onset matter. Pitch rate as well.

I've no opinion of P-51 vs Raiden in particular, but suspect that Sakai had little experience of the P-51.

Frank Olynyk 26th August 2019 18:34

Re: Japanese pilot opinions on the J2M
 
I strongly suspect that we need a new, honest, translation of Sakai's book Ozora no Samurai (Samurai of the Skies). Strangely enough I have a number of copies of his book, because when I picked them up the English translation of the titles were all different (Truth of the Zero Fighter, The Fate of the Zero Fighter, Last Moment of the Zero Fighter, Saburo Sakai air combat record, To the End of the (top) mortal combat samurai sky without regret it). I compared the characters at the beginning of each book (I do not read Japanese), and they were all different. But I assume these are just slightly different editions of his book. Can anyone comment on these different versions?

Enjoy!

Frank.

twocee 26th August 2019 21:54

Re: Japanese pilot opinions on the J2M
 
Another comment on the Raiden is to be found in Chapter 25 of the Okumiya/Horikoshi book "Zero". The latter is quoted as follows:

"Soon after its introduction to combat we cut back the production of the Raiden interceptor plane; despite our plans that the fighter should replace the Zero, it suffered from poor pilot visibility and lacked the flight endurance necessary for Pacific operations."

This last point, short range, is also mentioned in the Allied pilot's report quoted in the July 1971 Air Enthusiast article. Another criticism was the lack of manoeuvrability at high speed caused by the heavy ailerons.

These shortcomings would not have prejudiced its use as a homeland bomber interceptor.

Jukka Juutinen 26th August 2019 23:27

Re: Japanese pilot opinions on the J2M
 
That report, iirc, mentions heavy ailerons above 350 mph. A6M ailerons were very heavy well below that.

Short range on internal fuel indeed, but drop tanks were available. Regarding pilot visibility, I recall the TAIU report rated it very good.


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