We need some help regarding KG 40 Bordeaux-Merignac
 

Hi everyone,

We are currently developing a new Sim call ATWAR(Atlantic Warfare) and we are trying to gather information regarding the following planes from KG 40 located at Bordeaux-Merignac airfield in France :

I have already gone trough many books but the information is still elusive.

Heinkel 111h : Paint scheme, type of armament used and operational history.

Messerschmidt 410 : Paint scheme, type of armament used and operational history.

For anyone who can shed some serious info on these you will get a free copy of the game + forum VIP access on the ATWAR website.

Regards Hans

Re: We need some help regarding KG 40 Bordeaux-Merignac
 

Early He111H: 1x MG15 in nose, 1x in dorsal position, 1x in rear of Ventral gondola. Some were field-modded to have an extra MG15 in the upper nose. Other field mods included MG15 in beam positions. Port was ALWAYS in the rear window due to the positioning of the radio equipment. Starboard side could be in either window.

A very, very few had a fixed MG15 (I think?) in the tail cone, firing rearward with no aiming.

Later on, the beam positions were upgraded to MG81Z. Nose gun was changed to an MGFF. I believe some had MG131? The front of the ventral gondola was given an MGFF for ground strafing.

The dorsal position was later armoured and given a cover, with framing that reminds me of an armadillo. I believe there were multiple versions... on some, the cover was hinged and folded up, over the gunners head. Later H models had a power-turret with an MG131 in the dorsal position.

Because "so many" of the mods were done in the field, The defensive layout seems to be unit-specific.... ie if one gets beam guns, ALL get beam guns. (only fair, right? :))

Camo layout: http://109lair.hobbyvista.com/111/lu...l-70.71.65.jpg Some planes had the same scheme, but reversed left-right (as if seen in a mirror.) Wellenmuster was unique to each plane if applied.

I am more than happy to be corrected on any point.

Re: We need some help regarding KG 40 Bordeaux-Merignac
 

Specifically them He 111s used by KG 40, not specific to Bordeux-Merignac, were of many marks, both very early (B and/or E as known from very rare photos) and later versions (H-5 to H-6). You need be very specific when creating each (including codes) involved. Here are (some) known Heinkels:

He 111 H-5 2302 xx/KG 40 dam 35%Er Breman ... 04.12.40
He 111 H-2 2739 III/KG 40 dam 40Er Mondidier . 13.05.41
He 111 P-4 3077 IV/KG 40 dam 10% Avord ...... 19.09.42
He 111 H-2 3147 IV/KG 40 dam 15% Lechfeld ... 18.09.41
11./KG 40 crd 90% NW Kulnbach 26.12.43
He 111 3175 V4+GL III/KG 40 mis 100% unk-loc ... 08.04.41
He 111 H-3 3193 III/KG 40 dam 15% Ansbach .... 22.05.41
III/KG 40 dam 50%Er Anklam ... 18.07.41
He 111 H-4 3263 JZ+FL Aus.St.KG 40 dm 30% Unterstedt 05.09.40
He 111 H-4 3272 Erg.St.KG 40 dam 50%Er Amiens 07.11.40
He 111 H-4 3282 IV/KG 40 dam 25% St.Dizier .. 22.04.42
He 111 H-3 3297 III/KG 40 dam 20% Ansbach .... 29.07.40
He 111 H-5 3315 1T+HH Stb/KG 40 mis ................ 07.09.40
He 111 H-3 3328 V4+CH III/KG 40 mis 100% off England 09.04.41
(downed when attacking shipping )
He 111 H-3 3329 III/KG 40 dam 15% Ansbach .... 22.05.41
He 111 H-3 3333 V4+BH III/KG 40 mis St.Georgs-Cannel 08.05.41
He 111 H-3 3351 III/KG 40 dam 45%Er ldg Brest 16.04.41

He 111 H-5 3528 F8+GT III/KG 40 mis 100% EnglW.Coast 20.10.41
He 111 H-5 3567 III/KG 40 CRD 100% nr Ansbach 04.07.41
He 111 H-5 3570 IV/KG 40 dam 15% Bricy ...... 27.07.42
IV/KG 40 dam 15% Bricy ...... 19.12.43
He 111 H-5 3613 F8+KU IV/KG 40 mis 100% ........... 07.04.42
He 111 H-5 3665 F8+BT III/KG 40 mis <Kanal> ........ 14.08.41
He 111 H-5 3840 IV/KG 40 dam ................ 27.07.41
He 111 H-5 3846 IV/KG 40 dam 20% ............ 29.07.42
He 111 H-5 3894 I/KG 40 Attack 10% Bordeaux 13.04.41
F8+ES III/KG 40 mis 100% SDN England 24.11.41
He 111 H-5 3895 IV/KG 40 flg 85% Bricy ...... 16.01.42
He 111 H-5 3896 * 8./KG 40 crd 100% nr Bardia . 05.09.41
He 111 H-5 3898 F8+BS III/KG 40 mis 100% ........... 11.02.42
He 111 H-5 3900 I/KG 40 Attack 10% Bordeaux 13.04.41
F8+GM 4./KG 40 CRD 100% Krossanes . 22.05.41
He 111 H-5 3901 I/KG 40 Attack 10% Bordeaux 13.04.41
4./KG 40 DAM 30%Er Gardermoen 20.05.41
He 111 H-5 3902 I/KG 40 Attack 10% Bordeaux 13.04.41
4./KG 40 DAM 50%Er Gardermoen 15.05.41
He 111 H-5 3903 I/KG 40 Attack 10% Bordeaux 13.04.41
II/KG 40 Motor 100% Merignac 21.06.41
He 111 H-5 3904 F8+ET III/KG 40 mis 100% (Liverpool) 22.10.41
He 111 H-5 3905 III/KG 40 eng fire 90% Amulies 27.11.41
He 111 H-5 3906 4./KG 40 Attack 10% Bordeaux 13.04.41
III/KG 40 crd 100% nrRotterdam 01.10.41
He 111 H-5 3909 V4+IH III/KG 40 mis St.Georg-Channel 11.05.41
He 111 H-5 3962 F8+LW IV/KG 40 mis 100% ........... 29.07.42
He 111 H-5 3972 [photo tail marking w sinkings (KG 26?)]
{eBay 10.2013}
He 111 H-5 3973 III/KG 40 crd 30% sea Ansbach 04.07.41

He 111 H-5 4008 III/KG 40 crd 20% Rennes ..... 18.12.41
III/KG 40 crd 25% Merginac ... 13.02.42
He 111 H-5 4020 V4+AK [Profile & photo in Kampfflieger (2) ]
[Profile in Osprey He 111 book]
III/KG 40 crd 80% nr Ansbach . 19.07.41
He 111 H-5 4021 V4+JL III/KG 40 mis <Bristol> ...... 02.05.41
He 111 H-5 4023 V4+EL III/KG 40 downed ............. 14.04.41
He 111 H-5 4037 F8+DR * 8./KG 40 mis 100% ........... 06.09.41
He 111 H-5 4038 F8+DS III/KG 40 mis E of England ... 16.08.41
He 111 H-5 4063 V4+DK III/KG 40 mis BristolChannel . 05.05.41
He 111 H-5 4067 F8+NM 4./KG 40 SDN near Faroes .... 05.06.41
He 111 H-5 4068 III/KG 40 dam 5% Fighters .... 12.10.41
III/KG 40 crashed 100% Rennes 15.11.41
He 111 H-5 4069 4./KG 40 crash (100%) Vannes 06.07.41
He 111 H-5 4070 F8+ES III/KG 40 missing (Nordsee) .. 19.08.41
´im Schlauschboot zurückgekehrt´ 3.9.41
He 111 H-5 4076 III/KG 40 crd 15%Er Rennes ... 13.10.41
He 111 H-5 4078 F8+KT III/KG 40 mis 100% EnglE.Coast 16.12.41
He 111 H-5 4081 F8+BS III/KG 40 missing Eof England 22.08.41
He 111 H-5 4082 F8+FT III/KG 40 mis 100% ........... 09.08.41
He 111 H-5 4083 F8+FR III/KG 40 crd 60% Sösterberg . 15.08.41
He 111 H-5 4084 F8+HR III/KG 40 mis 100% (Southamton 20.09.41
He 111 H-5 4089 III/KG 40 crash LaBaehoniére . 27.01.42
He 111 H-5 4091 III/KG 40 downed 100% ........ 20.09.41
‘Seenotdiest, zuruck, BS killed’
He 111 H-5 4092 III/KG 40 crd 40%Er Rennes ... 12.10.41

He 111 H-6 4125 F8+HT III/KG 40 mis 100% ........... 28.12.41
He 111 H-6 4129 III/KG 40 crd 100% Bleichdorf 23.07.41
He 111 H-6 4141 F8+AT III/KG 40 mis 100% ........... 12.10.41
He 111 H-6 4173 F8+DT III/KG 40 mis 100% Engl.ECoast 16.12.41
He 111 H-6 4175 F8+ER III/KG 40 mis 100% ........... 11.10.41
He 111 H-6 4186 F8+ET III/KG 40 mis 100% ........... 29.12.41
He 111 H-6 4257 III/KG 40 crd 100% nr LeHavre. 28.09.41
He 111 H-6 4258 III/KG 40 dam 5% PLQ 14W6746 . 28.03.42
He 111 H-6 4260 F8+AS III/KG 40 mis 100% ........... 12.10.41
He 111 H-6 4286 III/KG 40 dam 20% Rennes ..... 15.02.42
IV/KG 40 dam 40%Er Chauvigny 27.09.43
He 111 H-6 4311 F8+GT III/KG 40 mis 100% ........... 02.04.42
He 111 H-6 4313 III/KG 40 dam 35% Sosterberg 03.10.41
He 111 H-6 4375 III/KG 40 dam 30%Er Beauvais . 13.09.41
F8+ET III/KG 40 mis 100% Eiri Coast 21.03.41
He 111 H-6 4380 F8+ES III/KG 40 mis 100% ........... 13.02.42
(3 crew returned by U-Boot)
He 111 H-6 4391 III/KG 40 crd 45% Er Rennes .. 19.10.41
He 111 H-6 4392 III/KG 40 dam 40% figt. Nantes 02.12.41
He 111 H-6 4394 F8+DS III/KG 40 mis 100% EnglW.Coast 20.10.41
He 111 H-6 4396 F8+BT III/KG 40 mis 100% EnglW.Coast 10.10.41
He 111 H-6 4406 III/KG 40 crd 100% Amiens .... 14.09.41
He 111 H-6 4428 F8+GS III/KG 40 mis 100% ........... 02.12.41
He 111 H-6 4429 III/KG 40 dam 15%BeauvaisTille 22.09.41
He 111 H-6 4430 F8+KR III/KG 40 mis 100% (Liverpool) 01.11.41
He 111 H-6 4510 II/KG 40 fld 30%Er Wesendorf 29.11.43
He 111 H-6 4994 1./KG 40 crd 100% Fassberg .. 17.04.43

He 111 H-6 .... F8+GS III/KG 40, with ex-I/KG 4 emblem

He 111 H-2 5557 I/KG 40 CRD 100% Landsberg . 17.11.40
He 111 H-2 5565 IV/KG 40 dam 10% Neuburg .... 08.02.42
He 111 H-2 5570 IV/KG 40 crd 100% Lechfeld .. 10.11.40
He 111 H-3 5649 III/KG 40 dam 15%ER Ansbach .. 15.07.41
He 111 H-3 5670 III/KG 40 DAM 10-59% fighter . 16.04.41
III/KG 40 CRD 90% nr Dinard .. 23.04.41
He 111 H-3 5677 III/KG 40 AA 15% LDG Brest ... 10.04.41
He 111 H-3 5687 III/KG 40 dam 25% Ansbach .... 25.05.41
He 111 H-3 6821 III/KG 40 ENG 100% nr Bauvais 04.05.41
He 111 H-3 6840 V4+HH III/KG 40 missing ............ 09.04.41
(downed in attack on Shipping)
He 111 H-3 6857 V4+FH III/KG missing ............ 12.04.41
He 111 H-3 6866 9./KG 40 crd 100% Dievenow .. 29.06.41
He 111 H-3 6914 IV/KG 40 dam 30%Er Bricy .... 28.03.41
He 111 H-3 6891 V4+GK III/KG 40 mis Bristol-Cchannel 05.05.41
He 111 6965 9./KG 40 crd 40% Dievenow ... 21.06.41

If you like, you can send me private mail, I have already drawn (in very high quality) an "Atlantic" He 111 H-5 3900 F8+GM, operating from Norway.

-Ed

Re: We need some help regarding KG 40 Bordeaux-Merignac
 

Hi Kenny,

Thank for the quick reply and we already have that info from a book here in team.

What is more problematic for us is to know if the He 111 was loaded with torpedoes or guided missiles to attack shipping in the Bay of Biscay and probably protecting u-boat coming back, i also read they used them against balloon but i am not sure they were from KG 40.

We already know that they didn't stay stationed at Bordeaux and that they had been transfer in Norway as torpedoes bomber so in my opinion they either used them to train torpedoes pilots in the Bay of Biscay or they occasionally attack some shipping.

And our opinion so far for the Me 410 would have be that they used them to protect the airfield against allied bombers run.

If we cannot find any hard evidences we will have to included them as non historically correct in the Sim, that would be better than nothing.

Regards Hans

Re: We need some help regarding KG 40 Bordeaux-Merignac
 

Hi Ed,

Thank for the extensive list and i will contact you later regarding your paint scheme.

Regards Hans

Re: We need some help regarding KG 40 Bordeaux-Merignac
 

Here are some photos of the early types of the He 111 serving with KG 40.
Source: Expired eBay auctions via the old LEMB

Re: We need some help regarding KG 40 Bordeaux-Merignac
 

Hi Sidney,

Thank for the pictures but when i look at the Luftwaffe order of battle they mention that heinkel 111 H and this is the very early heinkel 111 A so i don't know what to think about it?

Regards Hans

Re: We need some help regarding KG 40 Bordeaux-Merignac
 

Many Luftwaffe units kept one or two older aircraft for use as transports and for courier duties.

Re: We need some help regarding KG 40 Bordeaux-Merignac
 

Hi Hans,

Although Nick Beale already answered your query, please also refer to Ed North's post No.3, more specifically to the following: "... He 111s used by KG 40 ... were of many marks, both very early (B and/or E as known from very rare photos) and later versions (H-5 to H-6)..."

In my post I just wanted to illustrate his point since I have a copy of some of these photos of the older He 111 serving with KG 40.

Regards,
Sinisa

Re: We need some help regarding KG 40 Bordeaux-Merignac
 

These are clearly not As, having the late engine installation. Es are possible. An assumption would be Js, as these were supposedly built for torpedo-bomber use, but there does not seem to be any strong mounting for the torpedoes visible under the fuselage.