Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum

Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum (http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/index.php)

- Japanese and Allied Air Forces in the Far East (http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/forumdisplay.php?f=26)

- - Saburo Sakai (http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=46119)

Re: Saburo Sakai

Thanks Focusfocus,

The story was very "controversial" during my time in the RAAF so it is interesting to be able to ask about it here on the forum

Nick

Re: Saburo Sakai

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flavio (Post 223769)

Dear Michael,

I don't speak Japanese too!

Anyway when I bought this book years ago I also bought a Japanese dictionary; thanks to it, leafing page after page (at that time Google translator was a dream...) I was able to understand the meaning of some ideograms (kanji). In detail the first shared victory is the B-17 on Feb 8th, the second the B-25 on May 14th...look at the ideogram at the end and you'll find the other shared. The ideogram on May 17th means "probable" (on that day Sakai claimed 2 P-39s sures + 1 probable) while the second B-26 on May 28th was "damaged".

focusfocus thanks for adding details; you are right I checked my copy of "Winged Samurai" where is quoted that the list has been taken from Sakai's logbook (unfortunately I gained my second-hand copy of this book some times after the Japanese dictionary....). However I think also Sakai's logbook is an "official" document even if there are discordances if compared to Tainan KODOCHOSHO.

Flavio

Hello Flavio,

I counted the claims on the list with the ideogram knowledge:
- 4 Destroyed in the China War
- 54+19 shared Destroyed in WW2
- 1 Probable in WW2
- 1 Damaged in WW2
- 7+1 shared On the ground in WW2

I suppose, the 17Aug1945 claim is a shared ground kill, isn't it ?
Do the ideograms tell us how many pilots took part in the shared kills ?

Cheers,

Michael

Re: Saburo Sakai

Hello Michael
IIRC In Samurai! the 17 Aug 45 case is described as an unofficial aerial kill. Also IIRC in an article on B-32s the aerial combat is describded. IMHO at that stage a ground kill isn't very probable.

Juha

Re: Saburo Sakai

Quote:

Originally Posted by knusel (Post 224675)

Dear Michael,

the victory of 17th May 1945, according to the kanji, was "Shared" + "damaged".

The kanji for "on the ground" are the first two ideograms on 3 March a PBY officially "on the ground" + "damaged".

Flavio

Re: Saburo Sakai

...alright, I understand, very intresting, thank you.
Now the only ideogram that is unclear to me is the first one of 8Feb1942:
B-17x1...?...shared.
Can you help ?

Michael

Re: Saburo Sakai

Quote:

Originally Posted by knusel (Post 224747)

...alright, I understand, very intresting, thank you.
Now the only ideogram that is unclear to me is the first one of 8Feb1942:
B-17x1...?...shared.
Can you help ?

Michael

I am not 100% sure, I think it is a different way to say "Shared"... :-)

Flavio

Re: Saburo Sakai

Hello,

is there any chance to learn how many pilots took part in the shared kills ?

Have a nice weekend,

Michael

Re: Saburo Sakai

If it will help you:

14/5/42 = shared with six pilots

20/5/42 = shared with one pilot

11/7/42 = shared with seven pilots

26/7/42 = shared with ten pilots

2/8/42 = shared with nine pilots

8/2/42 = shared with nine pilots

Re: Saburo Sakai

Dear focusfocus,

this helps a lot. Thank you very much.
Only few questions remain:

You write about a shared kill on 11/7/42. On that day there isn't a shared kill indicated in Sakai's list. Do you mean the shared kill on 22/7/42 ?
How many pilots shared in the six kills on 25/5/42 ?
How many pilots shared in the kill on 30/7/42 ?
8/12/42: I suppose the "damaged on the ground" indication is only for the 2xB-17's, whereas the P-40 is an aerial kill ?
There are 4 Chinese-Japanese-War kills on the list, whereas his score of that war is known to have been only two. Are two of the kills on that list unconfirmed ?

Cheers,

Michael

Re: Saburo Sakai

1)
11/07/42
It' a mistake on my part,it must read 22/07/42

2)
25/05/42
Shared by twelve pilots (including Sakai)

3)
30/07/42
Shared by nine pilots (including Sakai)

4)
08/12/42
Two B-17 destroyed on ground
one P-40 :aerial kill

5)
No idea

According of his log book

michel