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-   -   Area position codes on the continent 1944 (http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=7471)

Mikkel Plannthin 28th January 2007 20:48

Area position codes on the continent 1944
 
I am in the process of adding the operational sorties of Sgt. Palle Thomsen, 331 (N) Sqn. to my database. Doing this I have encountered different codes used for areas and positions.

E.g. "Movements area B and C" in
http://danishww2pilots.dk/pilotsSort...&sortie_id=269

"M.2441" in
http://danishww2pilots.dk/pilotsSort...&sortie_id=270

"L.9324 and L.8703" in
http://danishww2pilots.dk/pilotsSort...&sortie_id=266

I guess that they refer to positions on a map, but could anyone enlighten me ...?

TIA,
Mikkel Plannthin

Col Ford 28th January 2007 21:00

Re: Area position codes on the continent 1944
 
Mikkel,

What they are referring to is the Map Grid Reference system where they refer to the letter and series of numbers. See the website below for a description of how the system worked and a coordinates translator that gives a fairly close translation of a set of grid coordinates into a location.

http://www.echodelta.net/mbs/eng-welcome.php

For the notation as to what areas 'B and C' were you would have to find a description somewhere in Squadron records, Wing records or hopefully recorded in a pilot's log book of what those exact areas were. I know for Tac/R pilots, areas of the Netherlands were designated by an area title that represented a reconnaissance area to be covered in a sortie - almost like a bus route.

Hope this helps.

Regards,

Mikkel Plannthin 28th January 2007 22:24

Re: Area position codes on the continent 1944
 
Thanks Colin,
I'll study the reference with great interest.

Mikkel

SES 29th January 2007 10:23

Re: Area position codes on the continent 1944
 
Dear Mikkel and Colin,
Thank you for the question and the prompt reply. I have hastened to add your link Colin to the page on my WEB-site, which deals with the grid systems used by the various services of the nations involved in WW II. Please see:
http://www.gyges.dk/reporting_grids.htm
It would be of great value if someone could provide a link to a site, which explains the system used by the Royal Navy.
brgeds
SES
www.gyges.dk

Mikkel Plannthin 29th January 2007 12:14

Re: Area position codes on the continent 1944
 
SES,
I thought that the question might be of interest to you :-)

But as it was a RAF grid, I did not ask you directly.

Mikkel

SES 29th January 2007 12:21

Re: Area position codes on the continent 1944
 
Hi Mikkel,
And a good thing you didn't, I could not have answered, I learned something to-day, now we need the "Merlin" with the RN Grid.
bregds
SES

Mikkel Plannthin 29th January 2007 12:31

Re: Area position codes on the continent 1944
 
Excellent site. I have now tried to convert "M.2441" (http://danishww2pilots.dk/pilotsSort...&sortie_id=270) using the sites "coordinates translater:
Latitude : 49 40' 51'' N
Longitude : 1 07' 40'' E

Taking into consideration the impresicion factor given at the site, and that the road may have moved since then, it could be that the convoy mentioned in the ORB as "making east" was heading east along what is at least today the N29.

It might be interesting - just for the fun of it - to take a look at a 1944 map of the area.

Great link.

Mikkel

rafcommands 30th January 2007 08:16

Re: Area position codes on the continent 1944
 
Coastal Command used the RN grid for home waters.

Code changed usually every 3 months but at times of great activity it was altered every 2 weeks. So to decode a position you need to know the exact date it was given.

Code format is WWXX YYZZ where WW & XX are alpha, YY & ZZ are numeric

WW is a two letter code giving the Lat degree
XX is a two letter code giving the Long degree
YY is the Lat minute
ZZ is the Long minute

e.g.
56 30N 002 10W is the decode of

ZGSE 3002 on 4th Sept 1939
HGMB 3002 on 4th Feb 1940
PCLZ 3002 on 4th Sept 1940
NWYQ 3002 on 4th Jan 1944

It was said that the code was generated by drawing letters out of a hat and the random nature supports this.

Regards
Ross

rafcommands 30th January 2007 09:51

Re: Area position codes on the continent 1944
 
ooops

Need to preview before posting.

3002 should read 3010 in each case

Ross

SES 30th January 2007 10:17

Re: Area position codes on the continent 1944
 
Hi Ross,
Thank you for your response. No wonder I couldn't figure out the system.
bregds
SES


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