Messerschmitt Bf 109T, Alfred Jakobi
 

Good morning,

in Werner Girbig's "Chronik Jagdgeschwader 5 >>Eismeer<<" p227 a profile of Alfred Jakobi's Bf109T is depicted. Is it known how many kills he scored in that subtype ?

Cheers,

Michael

Re: Messerschmitt Bf 109T, Alfred Jakobi
 

This book might help: https://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/B...-srp1-_-title4

Re: Messerschmitt Bf 109T, Alfred Jakobi
 

Hello,
I believe Jakobi obtained and was awarded three Abschuüße while flying the Bf 109 T. He obtained a further seven in the far north before being shot down himself and going into captivity.

Re: Messerschmitt Bf 109T, Alfred Jakobi
 

FrancisM
Question:
When was he going into captivity ?

Frans A

Re: Messerschmitt Bf 109T, Alfred Jakobi
 

9 April 1942 after bailing out behind Russian lines. He was repatriated after the war.

Source:
Bf 109 F/G/K Aces of the Western Front

By John Weal

Re: Messerschmitt Bf 109T, Alfred Jakobi
 

Good morning FrancisM,

thanks for yor assessment.
Can you tell me which Bf109 model Jakobi flew for his seven Eastern front claims ?
And is he the top-scoring Bf109T pilot ?

Have a nice Wednesday,

Michael

Re: Messerschmitt Bf 109T, Alfred Jakobi
 

FrancisM

Thank you so much.
Frans A

Re: Messerschmitt Bf 109T, Alfred Jakobi
 

Hello Ed,

does John Weal mention the Bf109 subtype that Jakobi flew ?

Michael

Re: Messerschmitt Bf 109T, Alfred Jakobi
 

Hello Micheal.
No, Weal's book does not say what type he flew. What edwest posted is all there is.
But according to the Kracker database -

http://www.aircrewremembered.com/Kra...=jakobi+alfred

and the Luftwaffe Officer Career Summaries he flew E-7s and was lost in an E-7 red 2 WNr 1494.
Peter

Re: Messerschmitt Bf 109T, Alfred Jakobi
 

Good morning Peter,

thanks for the interesting link.
Is it possible to confirm that 14./JG77 flew Bf109E's in November 1941 ?

Cheers,

Michael

Re: Messerschmitt Bf 109T, Alfred Jakobi
 

Hello Michael,

in the JFV Vol. 6/II and 9/III are listed six Bf 109 E-7 losses/damages of the 14./JG 77 in the period October-December 1941.

Regards
Leo

Re: Messerschmitt Bf 109T, Alfred Jakobi
 

Thanks Leo,

and no Bf109T's, I suppose ?

Have a nice evening,

Michael

Re: Messerschmitt Bf 109T, Alfred Jakobi
 

Hello Michael,

correct, in this period the 14./JG 77 flew Bf 109 E, no Bf 109 T.
Lt Alfred Jakobi:
claims 1-3 (6 Aug to 8 Sept 1941) 13./JG 77 Bf 109 T-2
claims 4-9 (14 Nov 1941 to 4 Jan 1942) 14./JG 77 Bf 109 E-7
claim 10 (9 Apr 1942) 5./JG 5 Bf 109 E-7.

Regards
Leo

Re: Messerschmitt Bf 109T, Alfred Jakobi
 

I have these claims for Jakobi in his Toni days:

06 Aug 1941: Hudson 30km north of Stavanger-Sola
11 Aug 1941: Blenheim 25km southwest of Stavanger
08 Sep 1941: B-17 75km southwest of Stavanger


On the last encounter Jakobi and his wingman Lt. Wolfgang Steinicke both made emergency landings with their Bf 109 T-2s as a result of combat with the Flying Fortress, which was AN525 WP-D belonging to 90 Squadron and the first-ever B-17 lost in combat.
Some details of the encounter can be found here: https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...jakobi&f=false

Re: Messerschmitt Bf 109T, Alfred Jakobi
 

Hello Skyraider3D,

there is a diverging description in JFV Vol. 5:
Lt Jakobi and Lt Steinicke of 13./JG 77 made no emergency landings. Both landed in a normal way with damages less than 5%. The WNr. of their Bf 109 T-2 are not known.

Regards
Leo

Re: Messerschmitt Bf 109T, Alfred Jakobi
 

Hi Leo, my source refers to it as "Luftkampf mit 90.Sq FORT, Notlandung" and "beschädigt" without any percentage given. Notlanding sounds probably more dramatic than what really happened, but having an engine quit on you in the Norwegian theatre could easily be fatal.

Re: Messerschmitt Bf 109T, Alfred Jakobi
 

Hello Leo and Skyraider3D,

thanks for your info.
Is it justified to say that 3 claims render Jakobi most probably the top-scoring Bf109T pilot ?

Cheers,

Michael

Re: Messerschmitt Bf 109T, Alfred Jakobi
 

Hello Michael,

yes, according to JFV Vol. 5 only the Staffeln of the I./JG 77 achieved victories with Bf 109 T. Lt Jakobi had the best success rate with 3 claims.

Regards
Leo

Re: Messerschmitt Bf 109T, Alfred Jakobi
 

Hello Leo,

cool.
Are you able to tell a Bf109T from other subtypes by its outward appearance (on photos) ?

Have a nice Thursday,

Michael
from very sunny Brandenburg

Re: Messerschmitt Bf 109T, Alfred Jakobi
 

The T models had a larger wingspan, but it's not always that easy to pick up unless you have something to compare it to.
The T-1 also has an arrestor hook for carrier ops, but this was deleted on the T-2, which is what Jakobi flew.
Apparently only 7 of the 70 T's built were T-1's, and some of these may have been updated to T-2 spec. Not sure how reliable this info is.
Peter

Re: Messerschmitt Bf 109T, Alfred Jakobi
 

Not sure how reliable this info is? Best not to quote it then. He's just as capable of googling or obtaining a decent book as you are.

Re: Messerschmitt Bf 109T, Alfred Jakobi
 

I suggested one such book back in post #2.

Re: Messerschmitt Bf 109T, Alfred Jakobi
 

Good morning Peter,

thanks for your answer.
When they deleted the arrestor hook, did they abandon the idea of using the T on a carrier ?

Have a nice Friday,

Michael

Re: Messerschmitt Bf 109T, Alfred Jakobi
 

I suggest that you google “Graf Zeppelin” and “carrier”, if you are interested in German carrier plans.

Re: Messerschmitt Bf 109T, Alfred Jakobi
 

I'm interested in Peter's opinion.

Re: Messerschmitt Bf 109T, Alfred Jakobi
 

That's the M O D E R A T O R you're talking to.
It's never too late to start actually respecting that fact. If it's beyond you, post elsewhere.

Re: Messerschmitt Bf 109T, Alfred Jakobi
 

So am I but it doesn’t stop me doing my own research.

Re: Messerschmitt Bf 109T, Alfred Jakobi
 

All questions made here are in fact answered in the book suggested by Nick.
It's a far better option than googling and hear say.

Junker

Re: Messerschmitt Bf 109T, Alfred Jakobi
 

Good afternoon Peter, Leo, Skyraider & Francis,

thanks a lot for sharing your knowledge.
So far, this has been everything I wanted to know.

Have a nice weekend,

Michael

Re: Messerschmitt Bf 109T, Alfred Jakobi
 

Three years, 800+ posts and not one single instance of own research (quoting John Weal really doesn't count) or even helping another forum user. That has GOT to be a record for 12 O'Clock High...

Re: Messerschmitt Bf 109T, Alfred Jakobi
 

Apropos rare Bf109 types: did the Bf109A and/or Bf109C ever see any combat ?

Cheers,

Michael

Re: Messerschmitt Bf 109T, Alfred Jakobi
 

Any number of good books on the subject will tell you this.
Stop parasiting the forum with request after request after request.

Answer somebody else's query for once

Re: Messerschmitt Bf 109T, Alfred Jakobi
 

Hector, are you a M O D E R A T O R ? (yes, I can spell too) Then stop pretending to be one. Leave it to those who have volunteered for the job.
And for once - no, make that for all - when you have nothing good to say, or aren't going to contribute to a thread, say nothing. This forum will be a much better place for it.
Peter

Re: Messerschmitt Bf 109T, Alfred Jakobi
 

Stop fighting, please.

Re: Messerschmitt Bf 109T, Alfred Jakobi
 

Hi Nick,
as you know I have been a member of both incarnations of the 12 O'clock High forum for the better part of two decades.

For those unfamiliar with the earlier incarnation, this was its home page:
https://rhorta.home.xs4all.nl/

In order that debate or criticism not be viewed as mere fighting, can I ask for clarification on some points?

1) If somebody is posting dodgy information from spurious sources is it not OK to call out the fact?
2) If somebody has time and again been pointed in the direction of decent sources by more experienced members but continues to quote sheer poo, is it not OK to call out the fact?

Before anyone jumps on the "you can't expect us all to be on the same level" bandwagon, I will concede the point: no, not everyone has access to archival material and interviews with veterans. But at the same time, are we expected to just stand there and take it when you attempt to talk down to us...? ...From the lofty heights of the ivory tower you have constructed out of Osprey Books cemented with random googlings.... Are we expected to stand there and watch others cop that?

3) Given that this is a forum for "everybody" and not "somebody's private personal agony-aunt panel"... If somebody is using the forum to only ever post question after question after question but never gives assistance to anyone else, is it not OK to call that out?

I respectfully seek your guidance, Nick. Because in 20 years on this forum, I have never seen anything like the current issues outlined in the points above and am gobsmacked that somebody actually finds them infinitely defensible...

What gives the forum a bad look....? The fact that we once had some eminent authors and researchers contribute to this forum but it is now a playground for novices who should be learning rather than dictating, listening rather than talking down to moderators....

Other Nick

Re: Messerschmitt Bf 109T, Alfred Jakobi
 

Good evening Nick Beale,

you only intervene when somebody critizises my stalker.
You never block his permanent harassment of mine, thereby breaking the forum rules.

M

Re: Messerschmitt Bf 109T, Alfred Jakobi
 

OK guys enough is enough. Take your personal feud off board or I will close this thread and ban each of you for 6 months.

Re: Messerschmitt Bf 109T, Alfred Jakobi
 

Good morning Mr. John Beaman,

can you give me some useful counsel how to preserve the original topic of a thread from offensive intrusions ?
For example I want this current thread to remain a Bf109T/Alfred Jakobi discussion thread.
You see above how it went astray.

Kind regards,

Michael

Re: Messerschmitt Bf 109T, Alfred Jakobi
 

Hi guys

I don't intend to become involved in this - only to say that over the past two or three years Michael has been most helpful to me. I owe him gratitude and much more.

I feel that it is unfair to expect we 'ordinary' researchers to have the expertise of the Moderators (and some others). I, too, ask many questions on the Forum simply because I don't have the knowledge. Isn't that the name of the game? That's how we learn. And I don't believe that I have been able to contribute much in return.

My humble opinion is that sometimes the Moderator experts are too harsh in their judgement of we lesser beings. We should all enjoy and benefit from what is available on an otherwise excellent Forum.

Cheers - and as Michael always says - have a nice day.

Brian

Re: Messerschmitt Bf 109T, Alfred Jakobi
 

Brian,
Here's the difference:
As I have found out at first hand, when somebody tells you something (i.e. a bad source to be avoided), you listen. You also contribute answers and you don't play a game of "it is beneath my dignity to listen to somebody who isn't telling me exactly what I want to hear."

I hope your book on the Polar Sea Front continues to do well. Last you shared material from it with me, it seemed to be doing very well. I look forward to seeing it published it someday, I will be among the first to buy a copy. In the meantime I have turned up some more of VVS-SF's losses as inflicted by JG 5 so if there's any more help that you need, hit me up with a PM.

Nick