Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum - Police Records of aviation related activity in WW2

Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum (http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/index.php)

- Allied and Soviet Air Forces (http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/forumdisplay.php?f=7)

- - Police Records of aviation related activity in WW2 (http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=52093)

Re: Police Records of aviation related activity in WW2

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry (Post 258501)

This research resource is new to me and I guess others too, who perhaps have only looked at the TNA for the ORBs etc. So perhaps we all should start asking in our local area to see what is in the archives!

It was only when the curator at Davidstow Moor explained the significance of the Cornwall & Devon Police 'Aviation Incident Log' was it saved.

I'm sure he would gladly look up entries for anyone not local to Bodmin Moor.

http://davidstowmemorialmuseum.co.uk/

We need more Police 'Incident Logs' from WW2 to add to the list

Hi
This 'incident log' must be different from the truro record office police war diaries,
as the diaries were in the record office in the early 80's at least, i don't think the davidstow museum was around then, but please correct me if i am wrong
cheers
jerry

Re: Police Records of aviation related activity in WW2

The records as described to me by Davidstow Moor Museum curator last month, were of a type that recorded incidents related to aviation / air activity, so as mentioned previously, the log mentions crashed aircraft and their location in the respective Counties, but also the tragic death of WAAFs who drowned. To me this sounds like a separate type of incident log than the more commonly known War Diaries kept at local level.

Re: Police Records of aviation related activity in WW2

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry (Post 258690)

.......... To me this sounds like a separate type of incident log than the more commonly known War Diaries kept at local level.

Hi
great, i will pass this info onto someone i know in the UK
cheers
jerry

Re: Police Records of aviation related activity in WW2

Thames Valley Police records at Sulhamstead house Police air accidents reports from 1900s through to the early 1950s. Unfortunately at present due to refurbishment no one can view / access these records.

Andy Bird

Re: Police Records of aviation related activity in WW2

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry (Post 258690)

They also found there way into weekly Air Ministry Reports, in the early days of the war they're very detailed, by 1944 to 1945 they've become one or two lines. Housed at RAFM London.

Re: Police Records of aviation related activity in WW2

No such luck in East Sussex
This from The Keep

Quote:

I am afraid that all crashed aircraft report cards are closed to the public for 100 years under the Data Protection Act. However, East and West Sussex flying bomb report cards: all parishes; are open to the public. The reports, on 'crashed aircraft' cards on flying bombs, give date and time of the incident, location and map reference, whether British, allied or enemy, type and condition of machine, number of people killed, seriously injured, slightly injured or unhurt and a narrative description of the incident. They are arranged in alphabetical order of parish, borough or urban district and then in chronological order within each parish; although the cards cover both East and West Sussex they do not cover the county boroughs, Jun 1944 – Mar 1945 (ref SPA 1/1/4).
You are welcome to visit The Keep to look at these documents.

I've questioned if these are Police Reports but told

Quote:

I do not know of Chris Goss, Pat Burgess or Andy Saunders or what information they may hold on crashed aircraft in East Sussex. I can only repeat wat I included in my previous reply. The only other source we hold that is available to the public are the Chronological schedule of air raid incidents (ARI 1-2552), 1940-1945 (ref SPA 1/1/15). They are recorded in a tabular form and give time of incident, parish, number and type of bombs and crashed aircraft, number of casualties and other remarks, Jan 1941 - Dec 1943, annual statistics classified by county borough, borough, urban district and rural district, with numbers of casualties and bombs of different types, 1940-1944, 1940-1945.

I'm interested in one incident in August 1944 concerning a Tempest loss, but I'm not travelling to Brighton f there's nothing I can obtain.

Does the Data Protection Act apply?

Re: Police Records of aviation related activity in WW2

To be honest the Data Protection Act 1998, recently called General Data Protection Regulations from the EU, now called Data Protection Act 2018 in the UK, has been used as an excuse to lock away a lot of historic data. No doubt someone asked a DPA lawyer who was told the records contained names of deceased persons, and so he messed his pants worrying that they (the deceased) might somehow sue, if their details were made public, not realising that such details are held elsewhere in public registries etc. All they have achieved is frustration for historians who often just need one little bit of info to complete a project! In the UK the DPA 2018 even applies to clubs and societies and there isn't a membership threshold, so that club of 2 persons I'm starting needs a Data Protection Officer! Don't get me started!

Re: Police Records of aviation related activity in WW2

Why the hell would the DPA close crash records for 100 years? Bureaucracy at its utmost

Re: Police Records of aviation related activity in WW2

Am I reading this right? Is it really up to the individual custodian of records to figure it out? Same type of records, same time frames, probably the same forms filled in with the same level of detail and the only reason some are open and others not is because they are held in different counties?

Re: Police Records of aviation related activity in WW2

It seems that it's down to luck, whether information held by governmental organisations is retained at all as there was masses of 'shelf clearing' of data done in UK from 1970s onwards. What remains as archives that is not in TNA or other sensible Museum may well be at risk if, as mentioned above, a disinterested lawyer gives an opinion. Human nature tells me that if you had to go to the Head Office of an active organisation and asked to go in to their basement and have a good dig around they'd tell you to go away, and so its easier for them to quote GDPR /DPA and not have to deal with such requests in their lifetime! The only way to hold or access data covered by GDPR (in all the countries of the EU) without consent of the data subject is with a Legitimate Interest Exemption (LIE). So you can get details if they relate to you, and possibly if you are the next of kin of a deceased person, but that's about it! Obviously if you are the government you have a LIE in recording any incident in the first place, and can keep the data for as long as you can reasonably justify, but unless there is a specific Government directive to retain data such as Births, Deaths and Marriages, it could be destroyed when 'no longer needed' so there is no certainty it would end up in the TNA. How future generations will be able to research data held only on Computer I don't know!

Individual WW1 service records are withheld from the general public and should become open this year, 100 years after WW1 so I guess WW2 records will be free in 2045. Without getting too political it's the fault of people who write GDPR legislation in the EU that there was no real thought for historians who are frustrated by laws intended to stop us getting bogus phone calls or having our data sold to West Africa or finding our bank account emptied of funds or credit cards cloned. There is such duplicity in recording, so I can go to online to TNA records and find the ORB which might give most of what I need and yet some other historical record may not be open 'because it involves a death' which I knew about anyway!