Luftwaffe pilots shot while parachuted
 

I read the vol.1 of JG 300 by Jean Yves Lorant and Richard Goyat and I´m reading the vol 2 and I´m astonished how many Luftwaffe pilots were killed while hanging on its parachutes.
I mean I know some histories about that, like a Bf 110 Luftwaffe pilot that kill a polish pilot during Fall Weiss in 1939 or that some USAAF members did this.
But reading these books, the frequency of that practice really astonished me.
I never read for example that the soviet pilots used this tactic on the eastern front.
Do you know another histories of german and other nation pilots doing this kind of killings?

Re: Luftwaffe pilots shot while parachuted
 

Re: Luftwaffe pilots shot while parachuted
 

2.WW, has been the " badest" war fought since centuries, seems that the planers found civil populations, to be more easy prays !!

Rémi

Re: Luftwaffe pilots shot while parachuted
 

Of Commonwealth and Desert Air Force pilots Clive Caldwell is known to have shot at least one German pilot on parachute. When asked later why he did that he said that he saw not any reason to let enemy to live. The usual justification of killing parachuting enemy airmen has been that they will be eliminated to take a new plane and going to fight again and possibly kill the ones of your side. This applies specially to cases when the enemy is parachuting to safety over his own territory.

However in some cases parachuting pilots have been shot in their parachute even when they were parachuting over hostile territory and thus likely to be captured. At least one such case happened during the Soviet-Finnish Winter War in 1939 when Finnish pilot was killed by Soviet fighter when he was parachuting over Soviet territory - the case has been recorded by Soviets. Totally unnecessary kill as the Finnish pilot would have been captured anyway.

The most systematic killers of parachuting enemy airmen were Japanese fighter pilots - of this more on: http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=38310

When it comes to Germans, there have been claims that Legion Condor pilots did strafe the parachuting enemy airmen during Spanish Civil War. However I do not know details and if it was systematic.

The Italians and Spaniards of both sides of Spanish Civil War were quite chivalrous - they usually left parachuting airmen in peace as far as I know. In one famous case one Spanish pilot even escorted the damaged enemy plane so long that it could make a safe forcelanding over its own territory! Sometimes they also escorted the parachuting enemy pilot circling around him until he reached the ground, greeted him and then flew away.

Re: Luftwaffe pilots shot while parachuted
 

Here's a start for a study, those pilots were killed under their chute against USAAF fighters. I never found any name of german pilots killed by russian, british or french pilots; neither names of allied pilots killed by japanese pilots. BUT, on the very few days of the fight of Operation Torch, two french airmen (Lieutenant de Vaisseau Hubert Le GRIX de La SALLE & Maître SORBIER of Escadrille 2B) were killed under their chute by american pilots... If you can provide more, please do so.
At last I had to point that if some german pilots were killed US pilots that's "negligeable" in comparison to the number of pilots killed due to the failure of their chutes

Date Name Aircraft W.Nr. Markings Unit Place
30.01.1944 OTTO Gottfried Bf 109 G-6 27025 White 8 9./JG 26 Venlo P-47
08.04.1944 ZWERNEMANN Josef Fw 190 A-7 431164 White 11 1./JG 11 Anrewitz P-51
27.05.1944 WYRICH Heinz Fw 190 A-8 730357 White 4 5./JG 26 ?
08.06.1944 ZWEIGART Eugen-Ludwig Fw 190 A-8 170736 Black 3 Stab III./JG 54 Le Cambaux P-51
29.06.1944 KLEYSER Hans Bf 109 G-6 165109 ? 3./JG 300 Rotterschirmbach
18.07.1944 HILGENDORF Viktor Bf 109 G-6 413482 White 3 + I 9./JG 26 North of Dreux 373rd FG
22.07.1944 MÜLLER Erich Fw 190 F ? ? Stab II./SG 2 4 km NNW of Zilistea
28.07.1944 ZEMPER Ulrich Bf 109 G-6 20008 White 3 1./JG 53 Gojacoru P-51
06.08.1944 SCHINDLER Rudolf Bf 109 G-6 166010 ? Black 21 + I 8./JG 53 Bleckede P-51
07.08.1944 THRAN Hans Bf 109 G-6 200034 Black 12 10./JG 26 Mortain-Domfront 368th FG
22.08.1944 PAASHAUS Karl Bf 109 G-14/AS 780782 Red 1 + - 8./JG 53 France P-38
25.08.1944 ICKES Friedrich Bf 109 G-6 412171 Black 6 11./JG 1 Soissons
11.09.1944 PUSCH Hermann Bf 109 G-6 440602 Black 7 + I 11./JG 53 Nürnberg
19.09.1944 SCHOLZ Gerhard Bf 109 G-14 165742 White 4 8./JG 11 Joppe P-51
27.09.1944 RIEDEL Hans-Joachim Bf 109 G-14/AS 780935 ? 2./JG 300 Defence of the Reich
18.11.1944 HICKING Felix Bf 109 G-14 464132 White 11 + - 7./JG 53 Germersheim P-47
02.12.1944 STOLL Willi Fw 190 A-8 ? ? 5./JG 3 Laubach P-47
26.12.1944 GRAD Hermann Fw 190 D-9 210935 Blue 13 4./JG 26 Malmedy 361st FG
05.01.1945 FAUST Hans Fw 190 A-8 960540 Black 6 + I 10./JG 11 Kirchheimbolanden
16.01.1945 KUNZE Rolf Fw 190 D-9 210104 ? 3./JG 2 Grünstadt
23.02.1945 RINK Friedel Bf 109 G-14/AS 461466 ? 14./JG 53 Kornwestheim
02.03.1945 SCHMIDT Arno Bf 109 G-10 491209 ? IV./JG 300 East of Burg
18.03.1945 SCHREY Günther Me 262 A-1a ? ? 3./JG 7 Germany P-51
19.03.1945 SPAHN Johann Fw 190 D-9 ? ? 5./JG 26 Lingen 78th FG
07.04.1945 PROCK Eberhard Bf 109 G ? ? Rammkommando Elbe Enghausen

Regards

Alfred

Re: Luftwaffe pilots shot while parachuted
 

It seems that Chivalry became less as WWII got worse. The dates seem to tell the story, sadly! That goes for all sides. An interesting book to read is "Fly for your Life", this boarders on some of this type of situation This is the story of Robert Stamford Tuck, RAF.
There is also alleged accounts where Luftwaffe Pilots were known to shoot Allied Pilots in their Parachutes during the Battle of France and Britain and yet there are also accounts of chivalry on both sides allowing the downed pilot to land safely.

Re: Luftwaffe pilots shot while parachuted
 

Well Afred, what is the evidence that Fw. Otto (30.1.1944) was shot while hanging at his parachute? The records show no evidence in my opinion.

John

Re: Luftwaffe pilots shot while parachuted
 

Oh no, not this topic again...

Capturing parachutes in Gun Camera Film
 

Important note: I am not trying to minimize the historical record (nor contest it) with this post.

I have read, (I do not know the source) that many USAAF fighter pilots attempted to capture images of the parachute (of Luftwaffe pilots) with their gun cameras to confirm the kill. During this process, the .50-cal. MGs were sometimes fired resulting in the death of the man in the parachute. There was a way to disconnect the gun camera from the MG trigger--it was possible to turn the gun camera on without firing the MGs--but this did not always happen.

Is the above scenario a plausible explanation for at least some of these deaths?

Bronc

Re: Capturing parachutes in Gun Camera Film
 

I don't think so. There was a camera switch/selector, which allowed the US fighter pilots to use gun camera without firing the MGs.

It was not rare to make pictures of the descending pilots on their parachutes, you can see such gun camera films. But in most cases, these US pilots not points their cameras directly to the chute or the opponent, just near them. To aim and hit a descending paratrooper/baled out crewmember, which was a small target, some serious aim was necessary. So the cases, when the descending pilots were shot and wounded/maimed/killed, were definitely deliberated ones.

This topic was discussed here several times already and I also collected a number of cases, when Hungarian pilots were gunned down on parachute (and also a case, when a B-17 gunner was shot by Hungarian pilots, while descending on parachute). These events were much more frequent, than most people thinks.