Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
Again on offer is this shot of Bf 109 G-6/R2 W.Nr. 165 259 (?) "Gelbe 2" (?), 3./NAGr. 13, Nancy-Tomblaine, late 1944. Location and possible W.Nr. courtesy of Steve Sheflin, Bf 109 from Anton to Toni Group, FB, 13 December 2018.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Org-Photo-U...8AAOSwSldcx8c6 |
Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
One of the those unexpected and so surprising photos: at least 4 Bf 109 G fuselages from former 101 Vadaszezred stored at Budapest Matyasföld airfield, photographed 1 May 1948 by László Rósza, MTI, via https://archivum.mtva.hu/photobank/i...Q1UDVxcTJWUT07
With all my thanks to Tamás Derner, from Magyar Kir. Honvéd Légierö Group, FB, 16 May 2019, for the pointer. Cheers Marc |
Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
There was a secret aircraft factory in Hungary during the war.
https://gizmodo.com/the-caves-that-h...ory-1741803956 |
Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
Thanks Ed, for putting this cave factory together with this Matyasföld find. Was it also an MWG operated plant ?
Cheers Marc |
Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
Hi Marc,
Is MWG the same as Manfred Weiss? Ed |
Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
Hi Ed,
To my knowledge, MWG stands for Magyar Wagon és Gépgyar (MWG). This plant was created for producing railway engines and carriages. Information in english over this producer can be found in Dénes Bernad and Charles Kliment's books "Magyar Warriors: The History of the Royal Hungarian Armed Forces, 1919-1945" here: https://books.google.ch/books?id=TP4...20Györ&f=false So Manfred Weiss was a different producer but which pooled up with MWG and others for the war effort. Cheers Marc |
Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
Hi there, Gang,
Thanks to Tomas Prusa's pointer, we have here a superlative color photo of a WNF DIANA-Tischnau/Tisnov built Bf 109 G-10/U4, thought to be from the W.Nr. 612xxx production batch, exhibited at Tisnov square in May 1945 after the liberation of the city. Source: City of Tisnov exhibition via modelforum.cz, courtesy of Jindrich Rosa, 9 July 2019. https://www.modelforum.cz/viewtopic....SNkQM#p2230502 Cheers Marc |
Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
Nice!
The plane does not look airworthy. Is there the WNr. still on the tail? I think there are black numbers... Btw, that is the same, right? https://me109.info/display.php?a=e&l=en&fid=11068 |
Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
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Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
Nick,
You're absolutely correct; this plane was moved with wings removed from the Tisnov railway station to the town square, hence the missing wing root fairing. Falcon, You're correct, it is the same plane at the same location; too bad the W.Nr. in its usual WNF position, can't be read. The known W.Nr.'s of the other planes found at war's end in the DIANA WNF tunnel factory next to Tisnov do point towards a W.Nr. in the 612 8xx range. Cheers Marc |
Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
Dear Gang,
Here we go with some very interesting photos currently on offer: 1. https://www.ebay.de/itm/Foto-Luftwaf...gAAOSwbL1dK3XL https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/tjgAA...XL/s-l1600.jpg 2. https://www.ebay.de/itm/Foto-Luftwaf...oAAOSwKQJdK3eK https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/ZqoAA...eK/s-l1600.jpg 3. https://www.ebay.de/itm/Foto-Luftwaf...0AAOSwkvxdK3bL https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/TT0AA...bL/s-l1600.jpg 4. https://www.ebay.de/itm/Foto-Luftwaf...AAAOSwxgZdK3gk https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/FSAAA...gk/s-l1600.jpg If not mistaken, those four photos do depict Erla built Bf 109 G-14 W.Nr. 46x xxx "Weisse 13" from 13./JG 27. Photo 1 is captioned in Jochen Prien, Peter Rodeike and Gerhard Stemmer, Messerschmitt Bf 109 im Einsatz bei der III. und IV./Jagdgeschwader 27, 1995, p. 441 as showing Ogfr. Fritz Krüger standing in front of this machine. Photos 2-4 closely match the second photo published by Prien, Rodeike and Stemmer which caption informs us this is Lt. Wolf Otto aboard "Weisse 13". They probably were taken at the same time with the same pilot. A new set of photos was put to auction today: 5. https://www.ebay.de/itm/Foto-Luftwaf...0AAOSwsIBdLheN https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/7O0AA...eN/s-l1600.jpg 6. https://www.ebay.de/itm/Foto-Luftwaf...UAAOSw~YldK3kA https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/zIUAA...kA/s-l1600.jpg 7. https://www.ebay.de/itm/Foto-Luftwaf...4AAOSwGbldLhjV https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/WE4AA...jV/s-l1600.jpg 8. https://www.ebay.de/itm/Foto-Luftwaf...wAAOSwItRdLhgr https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/qVwAA...gr/s-l1600.jpg 9. https://www.ebay.de/itm/Foto-Luftwaf...YAAOSwl5FdLhkt https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/BUYAA...kt/s-l1600.jpg 10. https://www.ebay.de/itm/3x-Foto-Luft...YAAOSwhJFdLiPr https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/z9YAA...Pr/s-l1600.jpg Possibly from Ofhr. Müller's collection, as evidenced by photo 10, this second set shows another Eral built Bf 109 G-14, possibly "Gelbe 4", also late 1944. Ofhr Müller is recorded to have survived after bailing out from his stricken Bf 109 G-14 W.Nr. 460 638 on 26 November 1944 near Mellinghof. Source: Prien/Rodeike/Stemmer, III. & IV./JG 27, 1995, p.463. Are any further details known about the planes, pilots and location ? is the hangar in photo 9. known ? Thanks in advance Marc |
Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
One of those unexpected photos which just showed up:
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/cZ0AA...p4/s-l1600.jpg At least two wrecked Bf 109's from I./JG 4 can be recognised. The furthest away is IMHO a Bf 109 K-4, as evidenced by the position of the D/F loop base on the fuselage spine. Any ideas about the location ? Source: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-WWI...0AAOSwSGtdXUp4 Cheers Marc |
Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
Hi Marc,
I believe the fuselage in the left foreground has"K" gear doors. Steve Sheflin |
Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
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Thanks Marc |
Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
Hi there folks,
Auctioned for the second time this year a set of four photos depicting a Waldwerk or Reparaturwerk "near Linz", photographed in June 1945 by a member of Company B, 133rd Armored Ordnance Maintenance, 11th Armored Division. 1. https://www.ebay.com/itm/WWII-photo-...cAAOSwFDBdXzgY https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/J0cAA...gY/s-l1600.jpg 2. https://www.ebay.com/itm/WWII-photo-...4AAOSwxB9dXzjy https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/Wo4AA...jy/s-l1600.jpg 3. https://www.ebay.com/itm/WWII-photo-...0AAOSwhwVdXzjB https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/ng0AA...jB/s-l1600.jpg 4. https://www.ebay.com/itm/WWII-photo-...AAAOSwSHBdXzd4 https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/LUAAA...d4/s-l1600.jpg The location "near Linz" could match both with a delocalised facility of the Flugzeug- und Metallbauwerke GmbH - Wels which did repair and refit both Ju 87's and Bf 109's since 1940 or with the Messerschmitt GMBH aircraft factory of KZ Aussenlager Gusen, located some 19 km east of Linz, which produced since 1943 Bf 109's and Me 262's since Summer 1944. Is there any clue to refine the location of this set of photos ? Please notice that at least two airframes are WNF built Bf 109 G-14's (photos 1 and 2), the one seen in photo 1 having W.Nr. 510 224 stencilled under the windscreen, a highly unusual position. Thanks in advance for any information allowing to pinpoint the location. Cheers Marc |
Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
As the chance would have it, here two US veteran photos posted on wehrmacht-awards.forum last July.
https://i.postimg.cc/54dDh960/121718-020719-jpg-1.jpg This photo does show possibly an Mtt built Bf 109 G-14/AS "Weisse 4", from an unknown unit, discarded with some III Gruppe Fw 190's along an electrified railway line. https://i.postimg.cc/LRSrvscQ/341518-020719.jpg The second one, taken most probably at the same location as indicated by the landscape and the same electrified railway line shows a Bf 109 K-4 with the typical fuselage camouflage for the Mtt produced W.Nr. 330xxx-331xxx batches; "Weisse 6", from 9./JG 27 is already known thanks to another photo published by Jerry Crandall back in his Wings of the Black Cross 1, p. 18. Any ideas about the unit of "Weisse 4" and the location of all those machines ? Link for the original discussion: http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...43#post8522943 Cheers Marc |
Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
Hi Marc,
Me 109K-4 Wnr.331420 (DB 605D 011100532) & Me 109G-14/AS Wnr.785821 (DB 605 AsMo 00711476) SE of Naunheim. Greetz, Kees |
Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
Quote:
Cheers Marc |
Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
Hi Marc,
Me 109K-4 with green tailband (...JG 27). From Allied Inspection Report : "Marshalling Yard SE of Naunheim". Greetz, Kees |
Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
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Cheers Marc |
Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
Hello Marc,
the unit was 9./JG 6, not JG 4. Source: Gen.Qu. loss return 29 Dec 1944 item 65. Regards Leo |
Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
Leo,
do you know what was the fate of the pilot during that event? |
Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
Correct name is Ofhr Karl-Friedrich Fütterer, who was wounded.
Matti |
Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
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Cheers Marc |
Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
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What is the source for this discrepancy ? Is your data also from BA-MA ? Thanks in advance for your help. Marc |
Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
My info is from the NVM and checked also from the EKM-Verzeichnis.
I have not any Karl Jettner in any Luftwaffe aircraft crash. Matti |
Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
Thanks Matti,
For setting this record straight; it is highly appreciated. Is there by any chance also a location for this crash-landing ? Sincerely Marc |
Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
Hello Gerhard,
in the Gen.Qu. loss return Fhr Jettner is listed as missing, the WNr. of his Bf 109 G-14 was 785821. According to the Luftwaffe Kracker Archive Ofhr Fütterer piloted the Bf 109 G-6 WNr. 18587. Regards Leo |
Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
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Matti, your thoughts ? Cheers Marc |
Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
Hello Marc,
in JFV 13/IV is listed: 18.12.44 9./JG 6 Obfhr Karl-Friedrich Fütterer verl. Luftkampf, Raum Andernach, Notlandung, 40%, Bf 109 G-6 18 587. So the Bf 109 G-14/AS 785 821 was not piloted by Obfhr Fütterer. Regards Leo |
Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
Darn to the second power! I have no thoughts. Obviously the least I can do is to re-check that NVM at BA-PA.
Matti |
Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
Thanks in advance, Matti.
Looking forward for your findings. Sincerely Marc |
Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
Marc
In another thread here ("exceptional set of pictures ...") http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=22452 ... you post a link to a history of Plana airport in the Czech Republic http://www.airport-cb.cz/en/page/31/history.html Part way down that page is a photo of a Bf 109 used as an element in a war memorial. A google image search of that picture took me to this website ... https://www.vets.cz/vpm/mista/obec/1445-plana/ ... with more pictures of the unveiling of the monument and the Bf 109. Do you have any idea of the provenance of that 109? For example, I wonder if it was one of the aircraft referenced in the "exceptional set of pictures ..." thread above. Unfortunately those pictures cannot be viewed anymore (or I can't access them). regards Don |
Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
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Are you sure about "Naunheim" ? I don't find any railway in the vicinity of this city. But SE of Naunheim I find a Nauheim with a railway line. So my question is: where is, in Germany, the Naunheim you are talking about? :) Thank you. Regards, Franck. |
Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
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The tracks seen on both photos are from the Polch-Münstermaifeld vicinal rail line, a line closed in 1983: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bahnst...Münstermaifeld The actual location of those planes is just on the south east from Naunheim. Cheers Marc |
Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
OK, thank you. I know where it is.
The thing being Wikipedia article says "nicht elektrifizierte Nebenbahn" ... What did you write above in your post of 1st or 2nd of September? ... I see another problematic point: The guy is missing in non occupied German territory on 18/12/1944 at Naunheim, SE area ... Months later, his plane is found intact - for a machine having mysteriously disappeared it is intact - having done a belly landing - I suppose the pilot was alive enough to make it, but, still, no pilot news ... More, his machine was found exactly where the accident have been reported, right in the middle of a junk yard (!) situated close to Naunheim and waiting to be loaded on trains together with Fw190s and one K-4 (at least) It's not luck, it's a miracle ... Georg wrote 4+I and I was expecting JG6 RV bands. ... Having said that my next question is: Are we sure 100% these photos were shot at Naunheim? Following this thread I stupidly did change the place name I had before. It was/is indicated under the profile done by Claes Sundin ... And it's not Naunheim (Sadly, I don't remember it) Regards, Franck. |
Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
Hey Franck,
Good questions as usual. I will tackle them as soon as possible, hopefully thus week-end. Cheers Marc |
Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
2 Attachment(s)
Here's the A.I.2(g) report on the Naunheim Marshalling Yard for reference.
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Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
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Franck, the reference to the location is clear, but could be actually Naunheim bei Wetzlar. There is an important marshalling yard due south of Naunheim bei Wetzlar and east of Wetzlar, with nowadays a small airfield. Wetzlar was taken by US troops on 29 March, it is a good fit with the date of the A.I.2(g) report. Could this be the mentioned Naunheim ? Cheers Marc |
Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
No no....imho this is the Naunheim south of Polch.
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